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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 7 May 1997

Vol. 478 No. 7

Priority Questions. - Protection of Children.

Liz O'Donnell

Question:

9 Ms O'Donnell asked the Minister for Health the services, if any, available by health board area to intervene to protect children who are begging in public places; the special powers, if any, which are available to the statutory authorities under the aegis of his Department to protect the welfare of such children; the extent to which these powers are being enforced in relation to homeless and other vulnerable children at risk; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [12276/97]

I understand that the problem of children begging is mainly concentrated in the Eastern Health Board region, primarily in Dublin.The majority of the children begging in Dublin city centre are members of the travelling community who reside at halting sites located around the city. The number of children involved is relatively small and they come from a small number of families who are well known to the authorities.

Under existing legislation, parents who allow their children to beg can be fined or imprisoned. In practice, the Garda has experienced difficulty in trying to enforce the current law, particularly because of the need to prove that the parent sent the child out to beg. Following an examination of the current legislation, the Government decided to update and strengthen the law in this regard, and the Children Bill, 1996, includes updated provisions which will give greater protection to children from being sent out to beg by their parents. The main change is to place the evidential burden on the appropriate adult, usually a parent, to show that he or she did not send the child out to beg.

In the Department of Education work is ongoing on the preparation of legislation to update the provisions relating to school attendance at first and second level. Monitoring of school attendance will form part of the proposed legislation and will be applicable to all children, including children of the travelling community.

As far as the statutory agencies under the aegis of the Department of Health are concerned, the Deputy will be aware that the Child Care Act, 1991, enables health boards to take action through the courts where there is evidence that children are being abused or neglected. However, these provisions must be read in conjunction with section 3 of the Act which obliges health boards to have regard to the principle that it is generally in the best interests of a child to be brought up in his own family.

In general, the response of the Eastern Health Board has been to work with the travelling community and relevant voluntary groups rather than adopting a confrontational approach. The board, in conjunction with the Department of Education, supports a pre-school and school for approximately 65 traveller children in the city centre. Children are collected each day and brought to the school where meals, health care and other back-up services are available.

The board also supports a family support service for the travelling community at Exchange House in Meath Street. The service includes a drop-in facility and an outreach service is provided by a social worker who works with the most vulnerable families and their children. In addition, the board provides financial assistance to the Travelling Family Care voluntary agency towards the operating costs of two residential centres for children from the travelling community.The agency has also established a shared rearing project whereby traveller families can foster traveller children requiring care.

A review of the existing services for travellers was recently commissioned by the Eastern Health Board and this report will be available shortly. This is a further example of the necessity of adopting a focused, co-ordinated approach and I stress that all three Departments in which I have responsibility are involved in addressing this issue.

I am sure the Minister is aware that many of our citizens are scandalised by the regular sight of children begging on our streets. This form of exploitation of children should not be tolerated, simply by reference to their ethnic origin. What particular steps have been taken by the health authorities in this matter? I am not talking about the justice authorities which is a separate matter. I am aware the Minister has moved in relation to changing and improving the law, as far as the criminal justice aspect is concerned, in other words that it is an offence to allow a child to beg. In terms of wearing his health hat, what action have the Minister and the Eastern Health Board taken in response to the 271 referrals made by the ISPCC to the Eastern Health Board in 1996 alone, in relation to children begging on our streets?

I am glad the Deputy recognises the complexity of the problem. It is not as simple as many people seem to believe. That I have responsibility in the three Departments of Health, Justice and Education, has been extremely useful to deal with this matter on a multifaceted level. Wearing my health hat the Deputy asked specifically what the position is in that area and referred to the ISPCC. The Eastern Health Board has been very concerned about this problem. I said in my reply that the Eastern Health Board is looking into some of the allegations made. I also referred to some of what is being done by the health board but I will add to it. The Eastern Health Board provides traveller pre-school, summer school, school class, day-care services through Exchange House — a day care and drop-in service — and St. Columbus school, a school with day care provision. The board provides residential units at Ballyowen Meadows — short-term accommodation and assessment facilities — and Derrylossary House, a residential unit with eight places. It provides public health nurse services, grant aids childcare assistants, supports home-maker services and traveller support groups which provide an after care service and a shared rearing scheme.

The Eastern Health Board has been approaching the matter on a number of levels but this should not be seen in isolation. We have to take into consideration the provisions of the Children Bill and what is being done in the Department of Education and, particularly, the School Attendance Bill which is at an advanced stage of preparation.The efforts made by the three Departments for which I have responsibility will make a major contribution to the resolution of this problem.

I am not denying that the Eastern Health Board and the other statutory authorities are concerned. I am concerned there seems to be an absence of focus and that the statutory authorities are not protecting this group of children. The Minister said that a small group of families is concerned. This is all the more reason it should be possible for the State to make a critical intervention to protect these children. Surely the Minister is aware these children have individual constitutional rights which are not being protected by the State which turns a blind eye to the sight of children begging on our streets on a regular basis. I am not satisfied that sufficient focus, energy and commitment is going into tackling this problem. Will he inquire from the Eastern Health Board what specific action it has taken in response to the 271 cases reported by the ISPCC volunteers to the Eastern Health Board in 1996?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That should be adequate, Deputy.

I know what specific action the Eastern Health Board has taken, it has established a working group with Barnardos to consider the implications of a recent report by Barnardos.I have heard the Deputy speak not only in this House but elsewhere and there is no doubt she has a simplistic view as far as these children are concerned. The report by Barnardos recommended there should be direct contact with the children in a skilled and sensitive manner, involving the building of trust and confidence——

Of course there should be but why is there not?

That is not the Deputy's attitude.

It is my attitude.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Let us hear the Minister's reply.

They do not need a working group, they need action.

The Deputy's attitude to travellers and to children begging on the street approximates to the zero tolerance attitude which her party has been taking recently. It is not just a matter of the Garda lifting these children, incarcerating them and removing them from the public view.

I am not talking about the Garda but the Minister's Departments and the health authorities.

In the Deputy's first comment this afternoon she said it was scandalous——

It is scandalous.

——and made it clear that her concern is to get these children off the streets so that people like her will not have to look at them.

It is not right. Does the Minister want them on the streets?

As far as I am concerned there is a way to approach this which is not zero tolerance one but a multifaceted approach because this is a complex issue. The Eastern Health Board has established a working group with Barnardos to consider the implications of the report. The Children Bill, which I introduced some time ago and which had its Second Reading in this House and which I managed to get through after more than 20 years of successive Governments not being able to produce it, could now be an Act if the Deputy and the other Opposition spokesman had co-operated. They prefer to preach about these matters and to make allegations but are not prepared to co-operate when co-operation would be in the public good.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I want to make progress and to come to other questions. I will take a final brief supplementary.

In response to the Minister's intolerant response to my questions, I am raising this matter as I have done on six occasions, since I became a Member, at Priority Question Time, to ask the Minister to respond to his own responsibilities in the health area. It is a racist policy by the State to turn a blind eye to the exploitation of children on the basis of their ethnic origin. If any member of the settled community left their child out to beg on the streets the health board would intervene. I have zero tolerance for the State turning a blind eye to the welfare of those children. The Minister is trying to twist the argument around to the justice area, an area on which I have also tackled him. My question relates to what he is doing as Minister with responsibility for children's welfare to protect the individual constitutional rights of children who are begging on our streets.

It is clear from the Deputy's response that I am not the one who is adopting a racist intolerant attitude, the Deputy is doing that and is specifically picking out a section of the community that has major problems which have to be viewed in a sympathetic manner. I am approaching this in the only way in which it can be approached, utilising the three Departments in which I have responsibility to deal with the problem.The Eastern Health Board has set up a working party. It would have helped considerably — the Deputy did not refer to this — if the provisions of the Children Bill had been brought into force which could have been done with the co-operation of members of the Opposition. They prefer to point the finger, make allegations and to call for a zero tolerance attitude in respect of one section of our community.

Zero tolerance for ineffectual Ministers.

They prefer to do that rather than co-operate in the common interest in finding a solution to this problem.

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