Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 14 May 1997

Vol. 479 No. 3

Dublin Institute of Technology Act, 1992: Motion (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:

That Dáil Éireann approves the following Order in draft:

Dublin Institute of Technology Act, 1992 (Assignment of Function) Order, 1997,

a copy of which Order in draft was laid before Dáil Éireann on 30th April, 1997.

—(Minister for Education.)

Mr. Martin

Prior to the adjournment of the debate I was celebrating the surrender of the Minister for Education to a long campaign by parents, staff and students of the Dublin Institute of Technology and the Opposition parties in the House. On reflection, the Minister lacked a coherent vision to develop the third level sector during the past year. She lurched from crisis to crisis and made up policy on the hoof in response to pressure groups from various constituencies. It was a red-faced Minister who was forced to establish an expert group to review the status of the regional technical colleges following a press release she issued on a Sunday afternoon regarding Waterford Regional Technical College. I am disappointed today's announcement did not contain a reference to that body's recommendations and the implications for other regional technical colleges. It is now evident we will not have legislation brought before this Dáil to give Waterford Regional Technical College degree awarding powers in line with the status of the Waterford Institute of Technology. Nobody begrudged the regional technical college its new status when it was announced, but it is clear the Minister has not given Waterford Regional Technical College that new status. All it has received is a name change. The Minister has been in office for five years and the recommendation of the Higher Education Authority steering committee was that extra degree provision should be put in place in Waterford as a priority to serve the needs of the south-east. The Minister has not increased degree provision significantly in Waterford, nor has she allocated significant extra financial resources to enable Waterford Regional Technical College to expand the range of its degree courses.

We have heard a lot of rhetoric and hypocrisy designed to meet immediate electoral needs rather than substantial policy initiatives. Behind the smokescreens of name changes and press releases, it is clear the degree provision referred to in the Higher Education Authority's steering committee report has not been made for Waterford.

The Minister made clear commitments to Cork — as did the Tánaiste — when she visited the city to try to calm the outburst of concern and anxiety from the students, staff and management at Cork Regional Technical College when its application to be upgraded to institute of technology status was not mentioned by the Minister. This is the Minister's last day in the House dealing with matters related to her brief, and she has not referred to Cork, Athlone or any other regional technical college. Legislation has not been introduced to give Cork its own institute of technology. This was promised by the Labour Party spin doctors when they descended on the city en masse to put the lid on an embarrassing electoral situation. Cork was promised this would be resolved before the conclusion of the Dáil, and that institute of technology status would be granted to Cork. The reality is much different, as the situation has not advanced from the Minister's announcement three months ago. Many people will feel betrayed and fooled by the Minister's approach to their college.

This illustrates the incoherence in the Minister's office in terms of an overall vision for the third level sector. We must be careful to protect the technological sector and ensure that, even in the Dublin Institute of Technology Order before us, the correct balance of degrees, diplomas and certificates is kept. The formation and development of the regional colleges sector more than 20 years ago was both enlightened and visionary on the part of the then Fianna Fáil Government. It helped to serve needs in the economy, such as skills shortages, and this facilitated the attraction of inward investment. That is important when maintaining the binary system at third level. We have a strong university sector side by side with a strong technological sector. These sectors can together provide graduates with the necessary skills to serve the new information technology industries and the new information age in which we live.

We look forward to going back into Government and picking up the pieces left behind by the Minister. We will put a rational framework in place for the development of the Dublin Institute of Technology and other institutes of technology throughout the country. We will mould them into a driving force to develop Irish economic and industrial life over the next 20 years and they will have a critical role in attracting inward investment. Under future Fianna Fáil Governments, there will not be the skills shortages that we have witnessed recently under this Government. Because of the lack of a coherent vision of the role of the third level sector, the Government has had to introduce panic measures.

We welcome today's order because, as Opposition spokespersons, we feel we have played a role in bringing the Minister to this point. We have ensured the Minister made the concessions the Dublin Institute of Technology wanted and campaigned for actively and constructively.

Ms Keogh

This is an unusual day in that we are in the dying days of the Government. I welcome the opportunity to debate the order conferring degree awarding status on the Dublin Institute of Technology. We have called for this consistently over a long period and the institute has also stressed the need for this. During the debate on the Universities Bill, we spoke consistently of the Dublin Institute of Technology's desire for university status.

The Minister went half way when she said the intention was to ensure the institute could award its own degrees. However, this happened because there was a long campaign for that measure, and the Minister seemed unwilling to enter into this commitment. From my discussions with staff and students at Dublin Institute of Technology, they felt they had to battle the whole way to ensure they would get degree awarding status. That is important from the perspectives of the Dublin Institute of Technology and its staff and students, though that is not to denigrate their links with other educational institutions. Those links have been very welcome and have added to excellence in the institute. They ensured that recognition was given to courses developed in Dublin Institute of Technology and underlined the quality of education students received there. Degrees being awarded by an outside body were welcome to an extent but it meant those in the institute felt recognition was not given to their roles and abilities.

We must welcome this order from that perspective. Nobody would object to it and I do not understand the earlier foot dragging so that we have had to wait for this until the penultimate day of the Government.

We should look at this in the context of how third level education has been treated by the Minister. The Minister will speak during the election campaign about making university places more available to people through the abolition of fees. However, we find students want to discuss maintenance grants. This was raised by the Buckley report, which the Minister abandoned. Students want to know how they are to maintain themselves at university, especially those students from deprived backgrounds who do not have the benefit of having parents who can support them. Those students who do not have the wherewithal to maintain themselves in university need some maintenance and current grants are totally inadequate.

A great opportunity was missed by the Minister who went for the populist gesture and forgot about the less advantaged in our society. It is regrettable she took that attitude. However, she referred earlier to the strong case made by the institute over the past few months for inclusion in the Universities Bill. That is a complete turnabout from what she said on Committee Stage of that Bill when she continually stonewalled and trenchantly refused to countenance the idea of supporting the case for the Dublin Institute of Technology becoming a university. She cited the Massachusetts Institute of Technology not once or twice but many times and accused us of wanting to award titles because we thought they would infer a certain status. Despite explaining to her at great length that the Dublin Institute of Technology was seeking the status of a university to enable it to develop, to have the same remit as other universities, to be able to appoint staff within the budgetary guidelines and follow the selection procedures available to universities and so on, the much improved Universities Bill will not apply to that institute.

I was delighted, but astounded, to hear the Minister say earlier today that she listened carefully and with interest to the institute's views because I remember she objected to the fact that the students had sent in photocopied postcards which they had only signed. We explained that was a legitimate way for the students to lobby the Minister and that she should not object to it but should realise that they went to such trouble and expense because they were serious in their intent and were determined to ensure the institute would have recognition as a university rather than an institute of technology.

That objective has nothing to do with the title, it has to do with the ability of the institute to develop in the same way as our universities, without the heavy hand of the State, which was a major feature of the Universities Bill as originally drafted and put before the House. However, thanks to the numerical advantage in the other House, the Minister had to table more than 100 amendments to that Bill, which ensured the State role in it was not as heavy-handed and was far removed from the Minister's original intent. That is what the Dublin Institute of Technology wants.

Despite my pleadings on Committee Stage of the Universities Bill to give a commitment to support the idea of the Dublin Institute of Technology seeking university status and the Minister's refusing to give it, I am delighted that in the dying days of this Government she has had a change of mind and will request the Government to appoint a body pursuant to section 9 to advise the Government on whether, having regard to the objects and functions of a university, the Dublin Institute of Technology should be established as a university.

The Minister is playing to the gallery. She has come face to face with political reality. The wonderful thing about our democratic State is that politicians, particularly those who wield power, know they have to answer to the people. That can be a salutary warning to all of us, particularly to those who have the power to make decisions. Thankfully the Minister is not able to proceed with the Education Bill, which is a travesty, but has succeeded in putting through the Universities Bill, which is much amended and much improved compared to the initial draft. In legislative terms she may have done relatively little damage when we take account of what she set out to do. We must be grateful that people get a good dose of sense when faced with political reality. I welcome the Minister's turnabout and that she realises people's views count, particularly those who are genuinely trying to improve our education system. I look forward in the next number of weeks to returning to a different type of Government that is more responsive to the needs of our education system.

Minister for Education (Ms Bhreathnach)

I moved the resolution that the House approve this draft order. I recognise the strongly felt views of this House on the future of the Dublin Institute of Technology. It appears there is a full recognition on all sides of the role of the Dublin Institute of Technology in Dublin and in the country. I put the formal mechanism in place to evaluate the institution for degree awarding powers. I asked the Higher Education Authority to establish an international review team to recommend whether degree awarding powers should be given to the institute. This was not a reaction to other pressures which were on me. It was quite the opposite.

The review group recommended principally that the institute be granted authority to award degrees in respect of undergraduate and postgraduate courses, with effect from the academic year 1998-9. This view was endorsed by the Higher Education Authority. My response to this recommendation was to indicate I would be bringing forward a draft order under the terms of the relevant legislation. I am doing so now.

The Dublin Institute of Technology is in the process of ensuring its organisational structures and processes are firmly in place and operating effectively in line with the recommendations of the report. The order we are discussing, when signed, will formally grant degree awarding powers from 1998 onwards.

I take this opportunity to again congratulate the DIT on the progress it has made since 1992 in building a single integrated institute. It has such a vital role in higher education in providing qualifications at certificate, diploma, degree and postgraduate levels.

I stress my commitment in my time as Minister to the development of the Dublin Institute of Technology. I remind the House that staffing and student numbers have increased substantially in this time. Many new courses at certificate, diploma, degree and postgraduate level have been developed. Three new diplomas, two advanced diplomas and two graduate diplomas were sanctioned in 1995-6. Nine postgraduate advanced technical skills programmes were sanctioned in 1996-7. A further two new diplomas, one new diploma-degree and two advanced diplomas were sanctioned in 1996-7. This is a major commitment to the future of the institute.

There is recurrent funding of more than £50 million in this academic year. In addition, since 1993 more than £18.5 million of capital funding has been invested. The making of this draft order will provide further opportunities for the future development of the institute.

I take this opportunity to thank the Deputies who participated in the debate which has moved forward the third level sector significantly during my term of office. We have seen new beginnings created for students whose expectations, regardless of the level of maintenance or grants, were that they might not even finish second level. We have seen the gates of the local schools opened to those children. Many are in their third year at school where classes are no larger than 15 and parents, particularly mothers, have a welcome role to play. It will be nine years before people will be able to say this Government and I were right. These young children had the early start break so that they could look forward to becoming graduates of a university or a college in the technological sector. Their ambitions and expectations changed with this Government.

The universities will also benefit from legislation — one institution waited many centuries for it while the others waited one century. These children will move into a sector whose future we have all played a part in securing well into the new millennium. I thank you, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, for the courtesy you extended to me as someone who came to this Chamber as a recruit and who leaves it as a Minister.

Mr. Noonan

(Limerick East): The best Minister for Education this generation.

Mr. Martin

The Chamber is full of admiration.

Question put and agreed to.