Proinsias De Rossa
Question:3 Proinsias De Rossa asked the Taoiseach the Government's assessment of the prospect for progress in the Northern Ireland talks; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [14631/97]
Ceisteanna—Questions. - Northern Ireland Peace Process.
Proinsias De Rossa
Question:4 Proinsias De Rossa asked the Taoiseach the contact if any, he has had with representatives of Sinn Féin to seek clarification of the position of the republican movement arising from the purported interview with a representative of the IRA in An Phoblacht on 11 September 1997; if so, the clarification, if any, he has received; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [14632/97]
Proinsias De Rossa
Question:5 Proinsias De Rossa asked the Taoiseach if the Government has received any response from the British Government to the submission on Bloody Sunday made by the previous Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [14634/97]
Proinsias De Rossa
Question:6 Proinsias De Rossa asked the Taoiseach which parties from Northern Ireland he has met since 11 July 1997 in connection with the Northern peace process; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [14637/97]
Proinsias De Rossa
Question:7 Proinsias De Rossa asked the Taoiseach what contact he has had with the British Prime Minister in relation to the progress of the all-party talks in Northern Ireland; the plans, if any, he has to meet the British Prime Minister; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [14638/97]
Dick Spring
Question:8 Mr. Spring asked the Taoiseach the current state of the all-party talks at Stormont buildings. [14656/97]
John Bruton
Question:9 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent meetings with the Northern Ireland political parties. [14662/97]
John Bruton
Question:10 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent telephone conversations with the British Prime Minister, Mr. Blair. [14668/97]
John Bruton
Question:11 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent meeting with the Archbishop of Armagh, Dr. Eames. [14669/97]
Proinsias De Rossa
Question:12 Proinsias De Rossa asked the Taoiseach the plans, if any, he has for the reconstitution of the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [14675/97]
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin
Question:13 Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin asked the Taoiseach the confidence-building measures, if any, it is proposed to introduce in this jurisdiction in order to enhance the peace process, particularly in relation to the release of political prisoners. [14721/97]
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin
Question:14 Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin asked the Taoiseach the manner in which the Government will promote the Irish national interest in the negotiations at Stormont. [14722/97]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 3 to 14, inclusive, together.
Last week's agreement to move into substantive negotiations which will comprehensively address the totality of relationships is a historic breakthrough and achievement. We will have, for the first time, negotiations constituted on an inclusive basis, conducted in an atmosphere of peace, involving the two sovereign Governments and with all the parties eligible to participate. We have never had such a set of circumstances in place before. For many years successive Governments have sought an all-round constitutional conference with all subjects on the table for discussion. This has finally been achieved. I hope that those parties that have chosen to absent themselves will reconsider their position. With the ceasefire and the start of all-party talks on an inclusive basis, we have moved a long way in the short time since we took office, building of course on agreements put in place under our predecessors.
All of my very numerous contacts with the British Prime Minister, and my contacts with other parties, have been geared towards reaching the point now attained where we have a unique opportunity to reach a durable settlement. I pay tribute to the tremendous amount of time, effort and dedication given by the Prime Minister, Tony Blair, the Secretary of State, Dr. Mo Mowlam and the Minister of State, Paul Murphy, in helping to achieve this position and to break the deadlock which had gripped the talks since they opened. Following the meeting I had with the British Prime Minister on 3 July last, I hope to have an early opportunity to meet him again.
In the weeks leading up to the agreement, the Tánaiste and I, the Ministers for Foreign Affairs and Justice, Equality and Law Reform, the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs and officials in our talks team met representatives of all traditions and parties including the SDLP, the Alliance Party, Sinn Féin, the Archbishop of Armagh, Dr. Eames, and the Bishop of Derry, Dr. Hegarty. At all these meetings I took the opportunity to review developments and discuss ways in which progress could be made.
I also discussed the possibility of reconvening a meeting of the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation at my meetings with the parties. Requests have also been made for meetings by the Leader of the Labour Party and by the Green Party. The Government will consider asking the chairperson to convene a meeting in early November following further consultations with the parties and groups currently participating, and to convene occasional meetings thereafter. The Government will also consider extending invitations to other parties in Northern Ireland to attend the forum. The purpose of such meetings would be to reinforce progress in the talks, not in any way to distract from them.
The issue of confidence building is of vital importance. It will be central to the ongoing negotiations and the procedural motion adopted at the plenary session of the multi-party talks on Wednesday last makes specific provision for dealing with such measures. In this jurisdiction, the Government, in recognition of the importance of maintaining confidence in the process, has again taken action on the release of prisoners, including the release of five prisoners on Friday last.
Confidence must flow more than one way. In this context, the reported remarks in An Phoblacht were not helpful to the process of building confidence in the commitment of all parties to an agreed negotiated settlement. This was indicated by the two Governments in their conclusions on representations made by the UUP against Sinn Féin, issued in Belfast on Wednesday last, which I am circulating with this reply. I reiterate what I said at the outset, that we expect the republican movement as a whole to honour the commitment to the Mitchell principles affirmed by Sinn Féin.
The Government has not received a response to the assessment of the new material on Bloody Sunday. There have been ongoing contacts at official level and I will meet with the relatives of the victims of Bloody Sunday again in midOctober. I have already welcomed the indications by the British Government that it will look afresh at the issue of Bloody Sunday and recognise that the British Government requires some time to consider the assessment of the new material. I believe that establishing the truth about Bloody Sunday will make an important contribution to building confidence.
In the negotiations which are commencing, the Government's negotiating position, and the national interest, will be based on and served by the Downing Street Declaration, the Joint Framework Document, the Mitchell principles and the draft report of the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation. Consent will be a guiding principle for both Governments in the negotiations, from which no outcome is excluded or pre-determined. In my joint statement with the British Prime Minister I also affirmed that the aim of the negotiations is to achieve a new and lasting agreement, addressing the totality of relationships, which commands the consent of both Unionists and Nationalists. We seek a new agreed political dispensation, a new beginning in relationships — not the acceptance of what has failed in the past.
I would like to take this opportunity to thank General de Chastelain for agreeing to take on the additional role of chairman of the Independent International Commission on Decommissioning, and Senator Mitchell and Prime Minister Holkeri for agreeing to take on additional roles as joint chairmen of Strand 2. They have shown great patience and forbearance, as well as skill and impartiality, in their work to date and we are all very much in their debt. I also wish to thank Brigadier-General Nieminen and Ambassador Johnson for agreeing to act as members of the Independent Commission, which was established on Wednesday last, and to the Governments of Finland and of the United States for nominating such highly qualified persons.
Our objective is to create a lasting peace based on justice, friendship and co-operation between people of different traditions. I call on all participants to maintain the momentum of progress achieved since July and join with both Governments in moving forward to reach an agreed settlement as quickly as possible, in the interests of all the people of these islands.
No party should allow the interests of those it represents to go by default and we would welcome and encourage all parties to fully engage in the process.
I join the Taoiseach in calling on all the parties, those present and those not yet present, to participate in this historic opportunity to build a settlement that will heal wounds, some of which date back 300 years. I join with him also in expressing thanks to the various Governments, and in particular individuals from overseas, who have been so helpful in this process at every stage. I compliment the courage of some political leaders who experienced difficulty with their own supporters in reaching the point they have now reached and allowing the talks to commence as comprehensively as they have. Does the Taoiseach agree with the expressed view of the Minister for Foreign Affairs' that Sinn Féin will accept a compromise at the talks that falls short of British withdrawal or a united Ireland? I believe the Minister expressed these views in Washington this week.
The Minister will answer questions on that matter later today. His views have been taken out of context. What we are endeavouring to do is get a balanced, fair and just settlement. What the Minister stated is absolutely correct. Everyone in the House agrees one cannot have a negotiating position at the start and end of the talks and that compromises, concessions and understandings will have to be developed during the course of the talks which will start next Tuesday. Strand I will start next Tuesday morning, Strand II will start during the afternoon and Strand III will start during the evening. The two liaison committees on decommissioning and confidence-building will commence shortly.
The energy and effort put in by the negotiating teams and all those involved in the process is aimed at getting people to work with, and have trust and confidence in, each other. Whatever settlement is reached at the talks and put to the people both North and South will have the confidence of both sets of communities. In recent months I have repeatedly said to all the individuals I have met, particularly our northern brethren, that it is no good trying to seek a solution which does not have the support of both sets of communities as it will not work. There cannot be a win for one side, it must be a set of compromises.
I call Deputy Dick Spring.
On a point of order, I do not wish to cut across Deputy Spring but in the normal course of events Deputies are called in the order in which their questions are listed.
I will call the Deputy later.
I should be called next.
I will give the Deputy ample time.
My point relates to the order of the questions.
There is a split on that side of the House.
We are all agreed that we want to get back to the other side of the House as quickly as possible.
I acknowledge the work done by the Government and the British Government in recent months in advancing the talks process. They have our best wishes in regard to the talks which will start next Tuesday. I welcome the announcement by the Taoiseach that the forum will meet in November and hope all parties will participate in it.
On the matter raised by Deputy Bruton, I understand the Taoiseach was at all the meetings with Sinn Féin. He met the leadership of Sinn Féin in Dublin a fortnight ago. The Minister for Foreign Affairs made a very clear statement, which was well reported and which has not been denied by Government sources since then, that Sinn Féin would accept a compromise short of British withdrawal and a united Ireland. Was this matter discussed directly with the Sinn Féin leadership at the recent meeting in Dublin and does the Taoiseach accept the views of the Minister for Foreign Affairs?
This matter was not discussed: what was discussed are the matters to which I referred. We asked everyone we met to accept that compromises would have to be made in the course of the negotiations and that the deeply held convictions and statements which I am sure each side will make at the opening sessions of the three stranded talks next week are opening positions and that they will have to move in the talks process. The remarks made by the Minister for Foreign Affairs to journalists were on the basis that compromises have to be made by everybody. What he said should certainly not create a difficulty for any party or set of negotiators.
Will the Taoiseach agree it is unacceptable for a group to solemnly sign on for the Mitchell principles on a Tuesday and for some of that group to say the following Thursday that they have problems with those principles and to specifically say in An Phoblacht that there will be no decommissioning until the talks process is over and agreement has been reached? Will he agree that directly contravenes and contradicts the Mitchell principles? There is disagreement between Sinn Féin and every other participant in the talks on the principle of consent. In the Taoiseach's talks with the leadership of Sinn Féin has he received a commitment that it will accept the principle of consent in total and without equivocation?
The Deputy will be aware of the joint statement made by the Prime Minister, Tony Blair, and me which states that the discussions will take place on the basis of the principle of consent which will be the guiding principle for the negotiations as they move forward. At this stage we are not tying people down before we start negotiations, but the principle of consent is the guiding one for these talks.
On the An Phoblacht article, the Deputy will have heard me say that I hold the Republican movement to abiding by the Mitchell principles and its obligation to ensure the Republican family live by that position.
I acknowledge that every other participant in the talks accepts the principle of consent as laid down in the Downing Street Declaration, but Sinn Féin made it clear that it does not accept that definition of consent. Has the Taoiseach made any efforts to persuade Sinn Féin that unless the outcome of these negotiations can be accepted through a process of consent as laid down and accepted by every other participant, it is misleading the population North and South about its intentions with regard to these talks and negotiations?
Unfortunately very few participants in the talks agree on everything. There are different levels of disagreement on various matters. I know, probably better than anyone, the difficulties in regard to the issue of consent because I tried to steer the draft report of the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation but we could not conclude that issue. It will continue to be dealt with in the discussions as we move forward. I hope those who remain outside the process will sign up to it in due course. That will require some persuasion and effort, but we will all be patient and try to achieve that. The guiding principle will be consent. It is clear what we cannot achieve. It is not fair to pick on certain aspects. I could refer to aspects with which many others are not totally satisfied. In a joint statement on 15 September the Prime Minister, Tony Blair, and I set out our position on consent, decommissioning and the conclusions we believe we can reach as we move forward.
The Taoiseach said that the remarks made by the Minister for Foreign Affairs, that he believed Sinn Féin would accept an outcome to the talks short of British withdrawal and short of a united Ireland, were taken out of context. What is the context in which those remarks should be placed? Does the Taoiseach believe those remarks are wrong and, if so, how were they misinterpreted and by whom?
In regard to the An Phoblacht article, will he agree that the problem is we all know Sinn Féin and the IRA operate as one movement with a single political agenda and common political direction? If one part of the movement repudiates something the other part of the movement accepts, the situation is profoundly ambiguous and unsatisfactory.
On the first issue, when speaking about the Framework Document the Minister for Foreign Affairs stated that was one of the bases for moving forward. He said nothing shall be predetermined and people should have an opportunity of debating, discussing and negotiating the various issues. That was the spirit in which the people went into the talks. He stated that nobody should feel compromises would not be necessary. Later today he will answer questions.
The Taoiseach has not answered my question. Where were his remarks taken out of context?
On the basis of the question I was asked earlier it seemed the Minister had stated these matters had been agreed. However he did not state that these matters had been agreed with Sinn Féin but that they were all matters which would be up for negotiation based on the Framework Document, the Downing Street Declaration and the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation. I have the text of what the Minister said.
What the Minister said was that Sinn Féin will accept as an outcome to the talks something short of British withdrawal or a united Ireland. The Taoiseach said these remarks were taken out of context. How does the context change those remarks: either he believes they will or he does not? Does the Taoiseach agree with the Minister on that?
I agree these matters will be concluded in talks but the Minister was not saying they had been agreed, and that is what had been reported.
Nobody said that. Does the Taoiseach agree with the Minister's view of the situation?
The Minister's view is that everyone will have to compromise. Everybody agrees that everyone will have to compromise.
Do you accept what he said? Is that the Taoiseach's view also?
I have the full text of what he said. He did not say these matters were agreed.
Nobody said he said that.
The Minister said people will have to compromise.
I too look forward to the Minister's clarification of his remarks in the US. I welcome the recent prisoner releases from Portlaoise Prison. As a follow on, will the Taoiseach comment on the lack of movement by the British authorities on prisoners and particularly the delay in their transfer to this jurisdiction? Three prisoners are awaiting the signature of the Home Secretary, Jack Straw, to be transferred. This delay is giving rise to real concern. I would like to hear the Taoiseach's views on this matter and the efforts the Government is making to have the repatriation process speeded up.
The Deputy should acknowledge that over the summer months the British Government has made a move on the reclassification of prisoners which has been beneficial. In Government we have continued to pursue and explore new ways of trying to speed up the process in relation to the transfer of prisoners and other matters which have been put before the British Government and have been talked about in bilaterals between ourselves and the British Government. I accept fully the issue of prisoners, loyalist and republican, is a central part of confidence building measures. Whatever progress can be made on this issue should be made. I acknowledge the new British Government is forthcoming in endeavouring to make a number of classifications and administrative changes to speed up the process. We will continue to pursue that with every haste.
I would join the Taoiseach in acknowledging movement on the prisoners issue in Britain if that were the case in substantive terms. What we have seen is a reclassification but in real terms what we have witnessed in recent weeks is a serious deterioration in the treatment of prisoners both in Whitemoor and in Belmarsh, matters which have been brought to public notice. Certainly this must give rise to the real intent at this juncture. We will need to see substance rather than a mere smokescreen which is very much the situation at present.
On the subject of confidence building measures and the transfer of prisoners, I am glad to hear the Taoiseach say his concern is for loyalist and republican prisoners. On the question of transfers to Northern Ireland, which mainly involves loyalist prisoners, I understand such transfers are on a temporary basis only and that gives rise to concern about parole and other matters. Has the Taoiseach taken up with the British authorities the question of transfers without the tag "temporary basis only"? Also, for the applications of four republican prisoners to proceed, their tariffs — that is the time they will have to serve — will have to be set. These prisoners are life prisoners so that before they can be transferred this matter has to be addressed. Has the Taoiseach pressed the British authorities to set the tariffs so that this procedure can be put in place?
These matters and dozens of others relating to prisoners are the subject of ongoing discussions. There are certain complications as to some of the issues mentioned by the Deputy which I do not want to go into now, but they have been the subject of discussions between ourselves and the British Government.
The Taoiseach indicated he thought it was unfair to identify one aspect of the process in Northern Ireland vis-à-vis consent. Would he not accept that consent is fundamental to having accepted North and South an agreement which may be thrashed out in these negotiations, and that it is therefore important and essential that all participants should be at one in the process which will be put in place to achieve that consent? Would he further agree that the Sinn Féin position is fundamentally different to that of every other single participant in these negotiations with regard to consent in that Sinn Féin denies the right of anybody other than themselves to have a view as to the self determination of the people of this island? I welcome the Taoiseach's decision to reconvene the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation in Dublin Castle but would remind him the issue of consent was the issue at which Sinn Féin balked when that forum last met.
I have already referred to that as it is I who was trying to conclude the draft document. The Deputy is correct on both issues. Consent is fundamental and the final discussions have to be based on consent. However, there are other matters in the negotiations that have to be worked out and on which there has to be compromise and agreement. I hope everybody involved in the dialogue, the bilateral and multilateral talks, the round table talks, the discussions of the two liaison subcommittees, the decommissioning and the three strands — all of which constitute a complex web and a mechanism for discussion — will see that we have to make compromises. That is my overall point. I readily accept that the issue of consent could be a major difficulty if people do not move in the course of talks. I hope everyone will move on the various issues that divide them, and there are many.
I join in the expressions of hope as a result of developments over the past week or so. Having been involved in the previous most successful effort negotiated at Sunningdale, I recognise there are circumstances relating to the talks now about to begin that did not exist then. At long last all of those necessary to a lasting solution to the Northern Ireland problem are around the same table. That gives grounds for hope. People have talked about the necessity for successful confidence-building measures. I agree with the Taoiseach that confidence-building is a two-way process. It would be of considerable help — Deputy Ó Caoláin, whose presence in the House I welcome, can make a major contribution in this regard — if the location of the bodies of the "disappeared", the people murdered by the Provisional IRA, whose grieving relatives have no focal point for their grief, was disclosed by the republican movement to the Governments concerned or their relatives to allow them receive a Christian burial. In passing on such a message to the leadership of the republican movement it should be pointed out that even in the most primitive, tribal and pagan societies bodies were returned for burial on the cessation of hostilities.
The Deputy's statement would be echoed by all Members, that it would be of considerable benefit if the bodies of those who have disappeared were returned for Christian burial to their families who in their grief for many years have been left wondering and without knowledge as to their location.
The question I pose is whether that would be echoed by all Members. Will the Taoiseach put this point in the strongest possible terms to the leadership of the republican movement on the next occasion he meets them? I hope he will have the assistance of one Member of this House in so doing.
From the replies given by the Taoiseach to supplementary questions relating to the remarks made by the Minister for Foreign Affairs in Washington, am I correct in concluding that he has not discussed these matters with the Minister for Foreign Affairs since his return?
I have received the text of the Minister for Foreign Affairs' remarks as well as the text of his reply to the question tabled for reply later today.
Has the Taoiseach discussed the matter with him?
No.
We now proceed to priority questions to the Minister for Foreign Affairs for which 20 minutes are provided.