Vol. 481 No. 6
1 Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for Education and Science whether he has set or intends to set specific targets for the numbers of children who leave school with no qualification, which stood at 3,600 in the latest year for which figures are available. [16804/97]
Following the National Economic and Social Forum's — NESF — report on early school leavers and youth unemployment, an interdepartmental working group to examine the NESF's recommendations was established. That group reported to Government and proposed, as a realistic target, halving the rate of unqualified school leavers by the year 2000, with the further objective of full participation by the year 2006.
The Government is committed to addressing this issue on a concentrated and co-ordinated basis. I have already announced a major expansion in the Youthreach programme for tackling early school leavers among 15 to 18 year olds. The number of places will expand from 4,525 at present to 6,250 in l998 as an extra 1,000 places are provided, and an additional 725 places within FÁS are redeployed to provide progression options on Youthreach. This represents an immediate implementation of a specific proposal in the Government's programme.
It is my intention to go beyond these and to develop a range of interventions, starting at primary level, which will identify and assist children in danger of leaving school early. The provision of a range of curriculum options which addresses the needs of children who would not benefit from participation in the traditional, academicallyfocused, curriculum, is also an important part of any plan to reduce early school leaving. In this respect, the leaving certificate applied and leaving certificate vocational programmes are particularly important. I am fully committed to their expansion and intend to ensure full resourcing for that purpose.
When taken together these actions will make a major contribution to reducing the number of children who leave school each year without completing their courses or any adequate qualification.
Does the Minister agree that the target of halving the number of school leavers without any qualification by the year 2000 is wholly inadequate and unambitious bearing in mind that, in the last single year for which figures are available, there was a reduction of 33 per cent which means the Minister proposes, over a three or four year period, to reduce it by only a tiny proportion? Does he agree that the target he has set himself needs to be radically revised?
I did not state that that was my objective. I intend to revise those objectives and be more optimistic in terms of achieving realistic rather than mere aspirational targets. I did point out that the interdepartmental working group established by the Government of which the Deputy was a member proposed those targets he has just criticised but I take his point, that we need to be somewhat more ambitious in terms of increasing those targets. However, that interdepartmental working group, having assessed the NESF's work on early school leaving, produced these figures. I would be concerned that perhaps to wait until the year 2006 for a full reduction is not sufficiently ambitious. I know that the Taoiseach in particular is concerned, within the context of social inclusion, that we make every effort to ensure that every child is given the opportunity to leave school with adequate qualifications, recognising that the life chances of any child who leaves school early, without qualification, are diminished.
Will the Minister agree to this alternative target: to eliminate all those children who leave school without having sat their junior certificate, without any qualification, at present comprised of some 2,200, by the year 2000, a cohort we know is experiencing well over 66 per cent unemployment?
In respect of the main vehicle the Minister announced as the response to this phenomenon, namely the increase of 1,000 places on the Youthreach programme, is he aware that 66 per cent of those who leave school without any qualification do not participate in Youthreach or any other training programme? Does he accept that extending a programme at present bypassing those target groups does not constitute a sufficient response?
I do not accept that the Youthreach programme is bypassing the targeted groups. I suggest that if the Youthreach programme ceased the numbers of those in that targeted group would be much greater. The Youthreach programme has proved a very valuable intervention in terms of providing alternative opportunities for young people who have left the mainstream schools system, which perhaps was not in a position to respond adequately to their needs.
I accept that we need to intervene earlier in the life cycle of an individual and we are examining a pilot programme for eight to 15 year olds. In this respect I met our Commissioner, Padráig Flynn and another European Commissioner particularly interested in this subject and committed to it. Together we are working actively to produce a programme very quickly on the eight to 15 year olds within the informal, "out of school" and formal "in school" contexts, to try to integrate young people who are experiencing difficulty in the schools system.
Our first target should be to ensure that the estimated 1,000 students who do not even make the progression from primary to secondary level is one of immediate concern to me, a problem I should like to have eliminated by the year 2000 and in respect of which I am striving and doing everything possible. I accept Deputy Bruton's bona fides in terms of the issue.
Before the Minister begins devising new programmes, on which I commend him, does he agree he should examine why two-thirds who, on his own admission constitute the target group for the Youthreach programme —the children who leave school without any qualification — are bypassed? That is not acceptable. Therefore, the Minister must look beneath the programmes and address the issue of access for them which clearly, in the case of Youthreach, is not being sufficiently targeted at them to attract more than one-third into participating.
The clear implication of the Deputy's point is we must begin earlier in the life cycle of children.
Yes.
The reason many of those within the target group do not reach the Youthreach programme is that, by the time they reach 14 or 15, they have become totally uninterested in the schools system or in participating in any such programme. Therefore, it appears we should head in the direction of beginning earlier, down to the very earliest years.
Will the Minister agree to the target I suggested for the year 2000?
I will do everything I possibly can to achieve that but I want to be realistic about this.
That is realistic.
The interdepartmental working group established by the Deputy's Government, no doubt in good faith, proposed the original target. Nonetheless, I consider the targeting of eight to 15 year olds an interesting objective. I feel instinctively I must begin earlier as early education is the key to resolving this problem since there are many complex reasons for and issues pertaining to why children leave school early.
In devising that primary education programme will the Minister be conscious that the study showed 66 per cent of disadvantaged children live in rural areas, necessitating the devising of programmes of access for them in urban and rural areas?
I share the Deputy's view in that respect. I am conscious that the Combat Poverty report on educational disadvantage highlighted the fact that over two-thirds of all children suffering from educational disadvantage reside in rural areas, in population centres of fewer than 10,000. Therefore, the strategies to cope with that educational disadvantage will be different from that deployed in urban areas and, because of the dispersed nature of the problem in rural areas, will require a different approach. I accept the Deputy's point that we must be conscious of disadvantage in rural areas, particularly as the population decline will create difficulties in rural primary schools in terms of class numbers and so on. I began a process in the Department of studying the demographic trends and the implications for education in rural areas.
