Proinsias De Rossa
Question:2 Proinsias De Rossa asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his meeting with the Northern Ireland Minister for Political Development, Mr. Paul Murphy, on 17 October 1997. [17856/97]
Ceisteanna—Questions. - Northern Ireland Peace Process.
I met the Northern Ireland Minister for Political Development, Mr. Paul Murphy, on 17 October 1997.
Following our meeting, Minister Murphy and I expressed satisfaction at the successful commencement of the substantive three strand talks and urged all to participate fully and constructively in building the peace for which the vast majority of people yearn.
Minister Murphy briefed me on the Public Processions Legislation. I gave my reaction to the legislation in my reply to questions in the House the week before last.
Did the Taoiseach discuss Articles 2 and 3 during his meeting with the Minister for Political Development? Can he indicate whether or not it was made clear that the position of the current Irish Government and the previous one was that Articles 2 and 3 would be discussed in the negotiations which would provide for balanced constitutional change? I ask this in light of the subsequent confusion which arose some days later over a remark made by the Minister for Foreign Affairs on this matter.
The Deputy will be aware that the Minister for Foreign Affairs subsequently clarified that issue within the talks. My discussions with the Minister for Political Development ranged over the three strands. We discussed the progress which had been made to date and what we hope to achieve before Christmas. Through the work of the liaison group and the decommissioning sub-committee, substantial progress has been made. We are determined to move the process forward as quickly as we can. There was a very successful meeting in relation to the strand II talks earlier today. Progress could not be considered to be speedy but the amount of engagement and dialogue, preparation and presentation of papers in the various strands and the discussion arising from them is useful.
Extremists on all sides are unhappy at the fact that the main players in Northern Ireland, including the British and Irish Governments, are sitting down to reach what, in effect, will be a compromise. In view of the fragility of the process, it is important that we do not send out signals which could be misread and that not only the Irish Government but all sides in these negotiations be extremely careful about the signals they deliver so as not to strengthen the hands of extremists on any side.
I agree with the Deputy. The discussions over the winter will be delicate. In the context of Northern Ireland people do not at times need signals to react. We are conscious of this and are careful to present things in a useful light. There are times when people either correctly or incorrectly interpret issues resulting in the need for clarification. Very useful bilateral meetings are held on a weekly basis. The Minister for Foreign Affairs tries to have bilateral meetings with practically everybody thus helping to move things forward, smooth potential difficulties and keep an emphasis on the three strands. We continue to drive the process forward through our own formal and informal dialogue with as wide a range of people as possible.
Has the Government tabled any detailed proposals on how the North-South body or bodies would work in terms of the precise methods of decision making, the extent to which powers of Departments would be handed over to the body and how legal responsibilities would be distributed between Departments, the North-South body and departments in Belfast? Does the Taoiseach agree this type of detail needs to be addressed over a considerable period and is not something that can be left to the end of the discussions? Will he assure the House that detailed preparatory work is being done on these matters?
I give the Deputy that assurance. Strand two is the main area for possible disagreement. That strand of the talks has been outlined and it will take substantial negotiation to resolve the difficulties to be addressed. However, a framework has been established to do that. Regarding the East-West presentation, there has already been some very useful dialogue with the British Government and officials. Today some of my officials met officials of Mr. Blair in a useful session.
Strand two is more delicate. The Minister for Foreign Affairs has already tabled substantial papers, although not as comprehensive as Deputy Bruton mentioned. Most of the activity and dialogue in which we are engaged among ourselves and with some of the other parties concern strand two in order to see how, in line with the framework and other suggestions that have been made, there can be constructive North-South bodies with substantial powers which can usefully deal with mutually beneficial issues while being sensitive to the difficulties involved. This is not easy but it is the central part of the negotiations upon which we must focus.
Does the Taoiseach agree that North-South bodies are much more threatening in the eyes of Unionists when spoken about in the abstract than when discussed in practical detail and that much of what these bodies would do in practice would not threaten anybody? Does the Taoiseach agree it is important that the talks move to detailed discussion so that the fundamentally benign character of these institutions from everyone's point of view can be made evident rather than have the discussion conducted at the level of general principle, as it now is, where there are obvious and irreconcilable differences?
There is a great deal of substance in the discussions. It is true that North-South institutions or bodies with executive or other powers would not be threatening. It is often the presentation of what they might lead to, and not the bodies, which creates concerns for people. Much of the dialogue has been helpful and constructive. People have been fair and have been prepared to move in the talks, but there is a perception that these are intrinsically linked to some future agenda. I, along with my officials and a number of Ministers, have been at pains to say that in all of these discussions what we are trying to do is keep within what has already been set down in a number of useful documents since 1993.
The format of the North-South dimension with executive powers is something on which we are moving and, while I would not agree with everything Mr. Trimble said in his recent speech to his conference, I welcomed the fact that he clearly signalled the role for the nationalist community within new structures was important and that is what we must focus on.
Will the Taoiseach raise as a matter of urgency with Mr. Paul Murphy or the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland the concerns expressed in two Sunday newspapers about the Robert Hamill case, which also raises questions about an RUC patrol in Portadown whose version of events around that sectarian murder has changed radically from one police statement to the next? Will he support the call, as I do, for an independent inquiry into the matter? Does he agree this matter must be faced so that all members of the public in Northern Ireland can have confidence in the police and the course of justice there? This matter is being raised today at a press conference.
I do not want to get into the detail of that case but in the normal course of events it will be raised in the Intergovernmental Conference.