Vol. 482 No. 6
2 Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin asked the Taoiseach if he will visit the Stormont negotiations in view of the fact that the British Prime Minister, Mr. Blair, attended Stormont in October 1997; and his views on the current state of the talks process. [18903/97]
I have visited Northern Ireland on two occasions since I became Taoiseach. The first was to address the biannual conference of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions on 1 July, and the second occasion was when I visited Derry and met John Hume on 10 October. I propose to make further visits to Northern Ireland at appropriate times depending on invitations I receive and events that take place.
There has been an initial exploration of each of the agenda items under the three strands in the talks. Participants have set out their positions and have responded to questions about them. The Government is anxious to see the talks get down to detailed negotiations and develop a momentum towards the agreement which we all seek and which, for our part, we will do everything possible to bring about.
Gabhaim buíochas leis an Taoiseach as ucht an fhreagra sin. I thank the Taoiseach for his answer and am glad he confirmed he will be visiting the negotiations. This is very important in asserting the common ownership of the talks by all parties and both Governments.
Does the Taoiseach agree that the lack of progress at the Stormont talks is a cause for grave concern, especially the failure of the Ulster Unionist Party to engage constructively in the negotiations, thus preventing movement forward? Mr. Paisley and his allies, including a former Member of this House and Government Minister, Dr. Conor Cruise O'Brien, are trying to wreck the talks from the outside. The Ulster Unionist Party is engaged in sabotage from the inside. Would the Taoiseach also agree that the issues of prisoners and demilitarisation remain neglected by the British Government? British military fortifications have been extended in South Armagh during the negotiations.
I also wish to raise the position of Irish political prisoners in England. Four men are entering their 22nd year of incarceration — Joe O'Connell, Hugh Doherty, Harry Duggan and Eddie Butler. There is no indication of a transfer or release date in their cases.
At least they are still alive.
It is not in order for the Deputy to make statements. He should put a short question.
This is the explanation of my focus. The point I am making ——
The Deputy should not make points, he should ask questions.
I have already posed one question in my supplementary. Will the Taoiseach reflect the alarm the situation is causing and emphasise to the British Government the importance of the vital issues of confidence building, equality and the central need for real progress at the talks?
I thank the Deputy. I am not sure if he made a speech or asked a question. All parties come to the talks with their own objectives and priorities. There is no doubt that the talks are difficult. Over the past few weeks in all the strands we have had explorations of the initial positions of each of the parties. Each party has presented its paper and we have had questions and answers on those papers. I share the view of my ministerial colleagues who have been attending the talks on a weekly basis that the discussions and negotiations are at a difficult stage involving many issues, including some of those correctly raised by the Deputy. It is our assessment that we can make progress with the determination, good will and willingness of all the parties.
Having gone through the initial assessment and presentation of papers across the strands it is hoped that we will be able to inject greater momentum into the talks than has been the case over the past few weeks. We hope that there will be greater dialogue and an understanding by all of the essential need to inject the ‘South African momentum' into the talks.
We are conscious of the need for confidence building measures for all groups, Unionists, loyalists, Nationalists and republicans. The prisoners issue affects all groups and it is regularly raised by them. I have highlighted confidence building measures such as the prisoners issue, the Bloody Sunday report, the need to deal with education, community involvement and industry with the British Government, the Foreign Secretary, Mr. Murphy and other Ministers I have met in recent weeks. I will do so again when I meet the Prime Minister next week. There is useful dialogue, contacts and work going on at the talks. It requires the efforts of everyone to give the talks greater momentum in the weeks before Christmas.
Will the Taoiseach agree it is a matter of some urgency that the pace of the talks be intensified? A plenary to examine progress in the decommissioning issue will take place, as agreed, from 1 to 3 December, and if that plenary is not to be taken up exclusively and unproductively with decommissioning issues, it is important that there is substantial progress to report in the three strands. Will the Taoiseach consider attending that plenary, if he can satisfy himself in the meantime that progress is being made? Does he agree that perhaps the format of discussion needs to be changed, with a more active role for the Chair and more use of bilateral and multilateral meetings, rather than the present format? If we continue with the present format there is a risk the parties will surf the agenda, so to speak, for the next number of weeks up to the December meeting. Will the Taoiseach agree we need to inject much greater pace into the discussions at this stage if the very tight deadlines set for the talks are to be met?
The need to progress the talks more speedily is self-evident, and I agree with what the Deputy said on that matter. For the next two weeks the format will change in the hope of speeding up negotiations. The chairman will directly engage in a process of bilateral negotiations with all of the parties, taking from the various presentations of all parties over the past four weeks. Through those negotiations, he hopes to frame what is important and what needs to be brought forward into the joint meeting which will take place in early December. The Minister for Foreign Affairs and other Ministers will be engaged in those bilateral negotiations next week; in some cases we hope to engage a number of parties. The following week I hope to meet the leaders of the political parties who will attend, as we agreed in July, so that we can get a clear emphasis on what we should do as a Government. Next week, on the margins of the employment summit in Luxembourg, I will review with the British Prime Minister and his officials precisely what the two Governments can do together in the coming few weeks. In addition, a meeting of the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation will be held in early December.
Over the next few weeks we hope we can get all parties to engage directly with each other. We hope also that we can get the chairman with the parties into bilateral negotiations to try to move their agendas forward and allow them state their objectives more clearly than they have in the past four weeks. These weeks will be crucial. If we lost time or the momentum between now and Christmas as Deputy Bruton stated, it would be a setback in view of the tight programme that has been set between now and early summer.
I do not want to press the Taoiseach unduly on this because it may not be a good idea, but will he at least consider the possibility of attending the bi-monthly review plenary in December with a view to giving this matter extra emphasis, bearing in mind that if we do not make progress by the December plenary we are then into the Christmas period, a slow resumption of the talks perhaps in January followed soon after by the February bi-monthly plenary? Progress may not have been made by then and within two months of the February bi-monthly plenary we are very near to the May deadline. Without any disrespect to the Ministers who are doing good work, will the Taoiseach agree that he needs to become involved between now and 1 to 3 December with a view to moving matters forward so that we have something substantial before the plenary in December and not just a "mark time" report?
There are important meetings taking place this month to move some of those issues forward. Arrangements have been made for me to engage in some of the issues raised by the Deputy at an appropriate time.
Is the Taoiseach aware of a view among the parties in the Stormont talks that there is a general lack of information in the South about what is happening, the workings of the talks and the progress being made? Will he urge non-governmental organisations and other parties to travel to Stormont and meet with parties in addition to efforts I hope the Government will be making to advance the talks process? The Green Party and I will be present on 24 November to meet Unionists and Nationalists. Would the Taoiseach welcome such an initiative?
Details of what is happening are in the public domain. Not much of what is happening is hidden. There is an agreement among those in the talks that certain matters will not be put in the public domain in order to provide an opportunity to build confidence between them.
I have no difficulty with people going to Stormont once the appropriate arrangements are made. I emphasise that the forum meeting which will take place on 5 December — although dates have still to be agreed by all parties — will be seen as important and part of the process of trying to achieve something before Christmas.
Overriding priority should be given to progress in Belfast.
I agree with the Deputy, but the forum meeting is significant. I am giving Deputy Bruton the view of the parties who are anxious that that meeting take place. The talks are taking place in Belfast and what happens within the three strands and the various subcommittees is the main issue, but there are other meetings which I am sure Deputy Bruton accepts are important and which take place on the margins of these meetings.
Does the Taoiseach agree there is a clear and important distinction between confidence building and substantive negotiation? The only place substantive negotiation can take place is in the talks in Belfast and priority must be given by both Governments to making progress on the substantive issues in negotiations. While confidence building of the kind the Taoiseach refers to is perhaps helpful to all parties, given the short timeframe the emphasis must be on rapidly moving forward the talks chaired by Senator Mitchell and his colleagues.
While Deputy Bruton is correct, he should understand that we are still engaged in trying to get people to talk to each other. There is a difference between being in the one room and engaging with each other. We have no difficulty here with engaging with each other but it is a difficulty in the talks process. For people to engage they must have confidence and to have confidence we have to have confidence building measures. That is why it is so important.
