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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 18 Nov 1997

Vol. 482 No. 8

Other Questions. - Grant Payments.

Paul Connaughton

Question:

19 Mr. Connaughton asked the Minister for Agriculture and Food the number of headage and cow suckler grants paid to farmers under the 1997 schemes on 31 October 1997; the number of farmers who remain to be paid; the reason farmers have not received their due payments as per the Charter of Rights; if he will intervene in the area aid section of his Department to allow payments to be made on evidence from the 1996 application year; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19538/97]

The position is that in the period since 1 January 1997, £630 million has been paid to farmers under the various EU livestock and arable aid schemes of which £378 million relates to payments made under the 1997 schemes. The number of payments made to date in 1997 is 1,239,022 compared to a total of 1,010,029 payments made in the period 1 January to 31 December 1996. Apart from the normal premia and headage scheme payments, my Department has made 400,000 extra payments to date this year valued at £65 million under the various BSE and agri-monetary compensation schemes.

Payments under the 1997 disadvantaged areas headage schemes commenced on 28 September 1997 and, to date, 60 per cent of applicants have been paid £67.6 million; 50,161 cases were paid at 31 October representing more than 40 per cent of the applicants, a position comparable to that achieved in 1996. Payments under the 1997 arable aid scheme commenced on 16 October 1997 which is the earliest possible commencement date under EU regulations and £85 million was paid to 94 per cent of applicants within one week of commencement of payments. The position is that £89 million has been paid to 99 per cent of arable aid applicants. This compares with the position in 1996 when, at 23 October, one week after commencement of payment, only 2,000 applicants had been paid a total of £9.1 million. Advance payments under the 1997 special beef premium and suckler cow schemes commenced on 1 and 3 November 1997 respectively. The EU regulations governing payment under these schemes provide that payment cannot commence before 1 November and this year the regulations stipulate that only 60 per cent entitlement can be made by way of advance payment. In 1996 the regulations allowed for an advance payment of 80 per cent entitlement. To date, £79.6 million has been paid under the special beef and suckler cow premium schemes.

A major factor contributing to the payment in both 1996 and this year is the EU requirement for the introduction of computerised land parcel identification systems, LPIS. The original deadline for full implementation of the LPIS was 1 January 1996. This was later changed to 1 January 1997 because of the difficulties being experienced in implementing the system in many member states. The LPIS requires what is effectively a 100 per cent computerised check on all land parcels submitted by farmers on the area aid declarations. This ensures that farmers are not overclaiming on individual parcels of land or that two or more farmers are not claiming on the same land parcel. In 1997, area aid applications were issued to farmers on which were pre-printed the details of all land parcels submitted by those farmers in 1996. Maps showing the locations of the land parcels were also issued and farmers were advised to make whatever changes were required so that the information would reflect the position in 1997. Of the 135,000 area aid applications which were issued, 50,000 were returned with changes to the 1996 data. These changes have been re-digitised on the LPIS database.

It should also be noted that, this year, priority was accorded to making payments under the 1997 arable aid scheme in view of the very severe harvest conditions, to which Deputy Coveney referred, which affected some parts of the country. The prioritising of arable aid payments has had some impact on the delivery of payments under the 1997 disadvantaged areas headage schemes.

In view of the volume and the value of these payments and the fact that the vast bulk of the money comes directly from the EU, it is imperative to ensure there are control systems in place which conform with EU and national audit requirements. In 1995, the EU Commission published new regulations on the accreditation of paying agencies such as my Department. The regulations set out clear criteria relating to the levels of checks and controls, including on-farm inspections and office checks which must be in place. These controls must be capable of satisfying international audit standards and each paying agency's accounts are now audited by independent auditors on an annual basis before being submitted to the EU Commission for clearance. It would not be appropriate, therefore, for my Department to take any action which would jeopardise this accredited status.

The Department is making every effort to clear all area aid applications other than a small minority of intractable cases by the end of this month so that payments can be made during the next two to three weeks.

That was a lengthy reply but the Minister of State did not answer my question. I wish to make a comment which is not a reflection on the Minister of State.

I do not sign the cheques.

I know. There is a system in place to deal with this matter. When Irish farmers hear the import of the Minister of State's reply they will regard it as outrageous. I do not know who wrote the reply——

A question for the Minister of State, Deputy Connaughton.

——but it is outrageous. According to a reply I received from the senior Minister last week, 48,000 maps had been received by the Department since last May. Only 24,000 of them had been validated by last week. That means there are almost 22,000——

A question must be put to the Minister of State. The Deputy is commenting on the reply.

How could the Department get through——

I must interrupt Deputy Connaughton. The House is not getting through many questions each day——

With due respect, the Chair censored me before I had a chance to ask my question. Several questions were asked before my question arose and this is the most important one.

The Deputies concerned put supplementary questions to the Minister of State. The purpose of Question Time is to elicit as much information as possible for Members.

That is what I am seeking.

In fairness to Members who have questions tabled, the House tries to get through as many questions as possible. The Minister offers the information and the Members ask questions. It is in the Members' interests to ask brief questions but it is not appropriate to make statements or to have a complete debate during Question Time.

I bow to the Chair's authority. Can we expect the Department to validate the 22,000 other maps in a shorter time than the six months it took the Department to deal with 24,000 maps? I stood in the rain outside a livestock mart in Tuam yesterday and farmers told me they are bitter that their income is not coming in the post. One in two farmers did not receive anything, irrespective of the figures from the Department.

Can the Minister of State or the Minister direct that the 1996 payment schedule be brought into operation to pay the outstanding amounts? In six months the Department could claw back the other 40 per cent payment the farmers will not now get. Can that be done? It is only four weeks to Christmas and if something is not done this week at least 30,000 farmers will not get the cheque in the post and, despite the Minister of State's reply, thousands of them will not be paid by next January or February.

I accept some farmers have not been paid.

Fifty per cent have not been paid.

That is not true.

According to the Minister last week, it is.

A week has passed since then.

Not many cheques were sent out.

A week is a long time in politics.

The Deputy asked a question and he should wait for the reply. People in the Department are working around the clock, even over weekends, to get the cheques out.

They are good at it.

They are excellent and are working hard. Neither I nor the Minister are happy with the present system, which the previous Minister put in place when in office. He contracted the work out to these people.

Leave politics out of it.

I did not mention politics. That system was put in place a short time ago and we will look at it. We want to make these payments as quickly as possible and people are working extremely hard in this regard. These payments will not be made until next June in some other European countries. France and Ireland are the only countries which are efficient in terms of the payments system. Holland will not start to pay until next January.

Try to tell that to Irish farmers.

I made a comparison. Civil servants are working extremely hard to make these payments and can only do so much. Mistakes made must be corrected and a severe audit was carried out by the Irish and the European audit systems. I hope the majority of payments will be made by the end of this month.

I agree with Deputy Connaughton that people are outraged about headage payments. Yesterday I met a man at the mart who said there will be no Santa Claus this year unless he gets his payment. Deputy Connaughton proposed that payments should be made on last year's area aid forms. If there is a problem, the money could be reclaimed next year. There was a commitment made in the charter of rights that farmers would receive payments by 31 October but that has not happened. A commitment was given in the programme for Government that farmers would receive headage payments on time. Farmers in the west and elsewhere faced the same bad weather conditions as arable farmers in the south. It is time to make this payment otherwise many farmers will not enjoy Christmas.

I hope nobody will panic and go to the bank on the basis of what Deputy Ring said. The Deputy dismissed the disaster suffered by farmers in the south-east.

I did not.

This system was in place when the charter of rights was introduced by the previous Minister. It was vital to give priority to arable area aid because of the disastrous harvest this year and an allowance must be made for that. The majority of payments will be made as quickly as possible. We are looking at how we can improve the system and make it easier on the personnel involved so that they will not have to work in three shifts and work overtime at weekends to try to send out the payments.

To overcome the tardiness in making these payments — I accept the Minister is doing his best — application forms should be simplified and the system should be streamlined. One would need an agricultural degree to fill in the forms.

Or be a barrister.

Do not give him your area aid form.

The system would be simplified if the form was more simple. Will the Minister try to rectify the appeals systems, which is too slow in achieving results? If a farmer inadvertently states it is a heifer rather than a male animal, it takes six to eight weeks for that problem to be solved. Such a problem should be solved by return of post. There should be a 48 hour appeals system. The slowness of the system is causing angst among the farming community. Will the Minister consider putting in place a system to deal with appeals within a week?

I would like to think it would be that simple, but both Deputy Penrose and I know several mistakes are made on application forms. I would appreciate it if people double checked and triple checked them because their mistakes only serve to delay payments. Unlike last year when the work was contracted out to a firm in Dundalk, it is being carried out this year by contractors in the area aid unit in the Department. That was recommended by the audit and was supposed to be an improvement. The audit contains certain strictures and, if one reads this morning's papers, it will be seen why they exist. Certain "blips" occur occasionally which damage our case for further aid in other areas. Nonetheless, all area aid will be paid within the next two to three weeks.

I will be very grateful to the Minister if that proves to be the case, but all the figures suggest it is not humanly possible unless it is decided to go back to 1996 applications and have the clawback for 1997.

A question, please.

Is it correct that the 134,000 area aid applications submitted this year lay in a heap in the middle of the floor in the area aid unit for two to three months because of a dispute and that the staff are now submerged by the forms? I compliment them and I know they cannot work any harder, but that is no good to the one out of two Irish farmers who expects to receive payment in the post for his year's work. Would any of us like to be told next Friday we will not receive our pay for this month until February, March or April of next year? Who would put up with that?

I do not think it is as bad as having to wait until January, February or March. We are talking of weeks of delay.

We shall see.

I thank the Deputy for the compliment he paid the staff because they are working extremely hard over a long period and many have not had weekends off. They are doing their best and the Deputy appreciates that.

We will be all right so long as the Minister ensures the cheques are sent out within a fortnight.

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