Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

It is proposed to take No. 17 — motion approving the terms of the Co-operation Agreement between the Minister for Health and Children and the Romanian Committee for Adoptions; No. 1 — Referendum Bill, 1998, Second Stage (resumed); No. 30 — Local Government (Planning and Development) Bill, 1997, Second Stage (resumed); No. 3 — Education (No. 2) Bill, 1997, Order for Second Stage and Second Stage; No. 23 — Statements on Northern Ireland shall be taken following the announcement of matters on the Adjournment under Standing Order 21 and the order shall resume thereafter.

It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that No. 17 shall be decided without debate; No. 23, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion after two hours and the following arrangements shall apply: (i) the statements shall be confined to the Taoiseach and to party leaders or a Member nominated in his or her stead; (ii) Members shall be called upon in the following sequence and the statements in each case shall not exceed the times indicated: the Taoiseach — 25 minutes; the leader of the Fine Gael Party — 25 minutes; the Leader of the Labour Party — 25 minutes; the leader of the Progressive Democrats Party — 15 minutes; the leader of the Democratic Left Party — 15 minutes, and the leader of the Green Party — 15 minutes.

Private Members' Business shall be No. 32 — Children (Reporting of Alleged Abuse) Bill, 1998, Second Stage (resumed) and the proceedings on the Second Stage thereof shall be brought to a conclusion at 8.30 p.m. today.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are three proposals to put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with item No. 17 agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with statements on Northern Ireland agreed?

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

I want to seek clarification about the item on the agenda for 4.15 p.m. this evening. Will the Taoiseach agree that Members may share time so that others can participate in that important debate on today's business?

The Taoiseach

I was asked last week to hold a debate on Northern Ireland in which party leaders could make contributions. If there is enough time available I am sure the Whips will agree to the Deputy's request. The normal practice, however, in this type of debate is that only party leaders contribute.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

Is the Taoiseach indicating that if the Whips agree to accommodate me, other Members can contribute to the debate? This debate is of deep interest to me and my presence in the House. I hope the Whips will agree to a brief intervention during the course of the two hour debate.

The Taoiseach

We will try to accommodate the Deputy.

Mr. Stagg

I understand the speakers who have been allocated time may share time with other Members if they wish.

The Taoiseach

That is correct.

An Ceann Comhairle

If the House wishes, Members may share time.

Mr. J. Bruton

What is the House deciding?

An Ceann Comhairle

To share time.

Mr. J. Bruton

That is the normal practice.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with Statements on Northern Ireland agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with Private Members' Business agreed? Agreed.

Mr. J. Bruton

I express appreciation to the Government for its support of the Bill proposed by Deputy Shatter on the issuance of liability in the case of people who report child abuse.

Will the Taoiseach agree to hold a debate on aviation policy in the next week or two? There is a conflict of evidence about what is happening in Aer Lingus with regard to TEAM. There is also a problem regarding Ryanair and there is great concern in Dublin and other airports about the effect on aviation of the loss of duty free status. A broad debate on aviation policy and future employment in aviation industries in Ireland would be useful.

The Taoiseach

The Government is prepared to consider any reasonable request from the leader of the Opposition. Such a debate would give the Minister an opportunity to talk about the excellent things that are happening in Irish aviation. We are moving towards the conclusion of a development in Aer Lingus that will provide facilities for up to 24 million passengers, bringing us into the 21st century. The Minister announced an excellent initiative for regional airports.

Mr. Stagg

This is an election speech.

The Taoiseach

There are ongoing developments——

Mr. Yates

There are a few other more thorny issues involved.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

The Taoiseach should talk about the nice things.

Mrs. Owen

This is a by-election speech.

The Taoiseach

While I have no information about what the Aer Lingus board will talk about——

Mr. Yates

Give Bernie a ring.

The Taoiseach

——I assume if it had the £65 million loan that was guaranteed and negotiated by Deputy Lowry when he was Minister, which was due to expire in January 1998, it would have been discussing it. That would have been a good issue for the board to discuss.

Mr. Stagg

There was no question of its expiring.

Mr. J. Bruton

I thank the Taoiseach for his speech. It is heart-warming if not a little partial in its presentation. Will the Taoiseach confirm that there will be a debate on aviation policy?

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

It has already taken off.

Mr. Howlin

I wish to raise two matters with the Taoiseach. The first concerns an issue I raised yesterday on the Eighteenth Amendment of the Constitution Bill. Will there be a mechanism to arrive at all-party agreement in relation to the proposal which will come before the House? Has the Taoiseach decided to amend the specific proposal published? How will it be reintroduced and will there be discussions in advance? Does the Government propose to put a motion to the House to establish a judicial tribunal of inquiry into the events surrounding the conviction of Mr. Derry O'Rourke in relation to sex abuses?

The Taoiseach

As stated yesterday and before Christmas, the Government will do all in its power to get agreement on the constitutional amendment. A meeting took place about two weeks ago at which I listened to the parties on this issue and we came close to an understanding. The debate brought about a level of certainty which clause 6 was seeking to achieve. We signed off at that stage as people thought it was best to leave it in. Subsequently parties expressed the belief that we should not include it. I have been listening to those views. I met the Deputy's leader and officials of his party on Monday last. I am meeting the leader of Democratic Left tonight and I will communicate with Deputy Bruton. After that we shall proceed with whatever arrangement is agreed. As stated in December I am anxious to get agreement on this. It is important that the parties which support the Amsterdam Treaty should also support the wording; that is what I am seeking to achieve.

In relation to the Deputy's second question the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation, Deputy McDaid, announced last night the setting up of an independent inquiry. I understand that is how he will proceed.

Mr. Howlin

It is important that those parties who are committed to supporting the Amsterdam Treaty should be in a position to do so fully. I hope those discussions will lead to that result. In relation to the other matter, is the Taoiseach ruling out the possibility of a full sworn judicial inquiry into the events surrounding sex abuse and the conviction of Mr. Derry O'Rourke? Has the Government set its face against a judicial inquiry in this matter?

The Taoiseach

The Minister who is directly involved has stated, following his meetings with the various bodies, that we should have an independent inquiry. Perhaps something will happen that will make us change our minds but at this stage the Minister thinks an independent inquiry is adequate.

Proinsias De Rossa

The Taoiseach's recollection of the meeting two weeks ago regarding the indicative wording is not quite accurate. The Democratic Left representative at that meeting pointed out that we were not satisfied with the wording proposed. However, I will be discussing this matter with the Taoiseach later today.

Will the Taoiseach personally contact Ryanair in light of the Labour Court's recommendation that Ryanair recognise the SIPTU representatives of the baggage handlers who work for them?

An Ceann Comhairle

That question would be more appropriate to Question Time. We had a debate on this matter last week.

Proinsias De Rossa

This dispute is going on and on. It would certainly be worthwhile for the Taoiseach, who is on record as expressing——

An Ceann Comhairle

This is not appropriate on the Order of Business. There are other ways in which the Deputy can raise this matter.

Proinsias De Rossa

Will he make direct contact with Ryanair and urge it to have sense and deal with the trade union that represents the workers?

An Ceann Comhairle

The House has agreed to a debate on aviation policy in the near future and perhaps the Deputy will avail of that opportunity.

Proinsias De Rossa

There is an opportunity for the Taoiseach to indicate this morning that he is keen that Ryanair should accept the Labour Court recommendation. That is a reasonable request. The Taoiseach has answered questions that were not strictly in order.

An Ceann Comhairle

That question is not appropriate for the Order of Business. Does the Taoiseach wish to comment on the Ryanair issue?

The Taoiseach

Quite frankly, all these matters are out of order. Last week I stated that the Labour Court would issue its views on this matter. I stated yesterday what the Labour Court has said. It is now a matter for the parties to respond. One of the employer organisations has obviously given as broad a hint as it can through one of its members or an employers body. I am sure Turlough O'Sullivan's view, rather than mine, would be listened to within the confines of Ryanair.

Mr. G. Mitchell

I thank you for allowing a question yesterday on the pending execution of a woman in the United States. That woman was barbarously put to death in the early hours of this morning. We have been promised legislation on the human rights convention. Will the Taoiseach bring forward that legislation to allow the Government to lay before the House the assurance it has received from the United States administration that a woman it is seeking to extradite from Ireland on charges of conspiracy to murder will not be executed? Will the Minister for Foreign Affairs, or the relevant Minister, lay that assurance before the House? I ask that the human rights legislation be brought forward to allow the Taoiseach or the relevant Minister to do so.

The Taoiseach

The convention is being observed without a statutory basis. The Deputy is correct in that a Bill on the United Nations Convention against torture is being prepared. It is a short Bill which has eight heads and I will check its progress.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot debate the issue now.

Mr. G. Mitchell

A case is pending of a woman whom the American administration is seeking to extradite on charges of conspiracy to murder. Will the Taoiseach confirm that the Government has received an assurance that if charged and found guilty she will not be executed? My understanding is that the Government has received such an assurance. I am asking that that assurance be laid before the House, given what happened in the early hours of this morning in Texas.

An Ceann Comhairle

This matter is not appropriate on the Order of Business.

Mr. Allen

In setting up the inquiry in relation to the activities of Mr. Derry O'Rourke I urge the Taoiseach that there should be no half measures. Unless the inquiry is set up under the Tribunal of Inquiry (Evidence) (Amendment) Act, it will be meaningless and will not have the power to compel witnesses to attend or provide evidence.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot debate the contents of the legislation.

Mr. Sargent

Will the House have an opportunity to debate the multilateral agreement on investment, given that the Government will attend a meeting on 16 February on this matter and we will not have an opportunity to raise questions on it until 17 February when the Tánaiste will take questions? Are there plans to meet development agencies who would have a distinct interest in the implications of the multilateral agreement on investment? When will the task force report on dumping radioactive material be published, given the commitment to report back by December 1997? In the light of recent accidents at Sellafield the matter becomes more urgent daily.

The Taoiseach

The Minister of State has already had meetings on this matter. In terms of the investment I will look at the timing to see if anything can be done.

Mr. Shatter

In the context of the proposed inquiry into the events surrounding the Irish Amateur Swimming Association, is it intended to present to the House the terms of reference to be given to the person who is to conduct the inquiry to allow Members to consider them and ensure all the issues are properly addressed?

Dáil Éireann debate - Wednesday, 4 Feb 1998

Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 4 Feb 1998