Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 24 Feb 1998

Vol. 487 No. 6

Other Questions. - Light Rail Project.

Olivia Mitchell

Question:

27 Ms O. Mitchell asked the Minister for Public Enterprise if she will ask the Luas consultants for an interim report on their findings to be made available prior to the EU review of Luas funds in view of the remarks of the DG16 Commissioner Monika Wulf-Mathies during her December visit; and if she is considering any other public transport responses to growing traffic chaos in the capital, in view of the short-term delay in Luas due to the study and the possible very long-term delay if the Luas funding from the EU is lost. [4597/98]

Mrs. O'Rourke

I expect to receive the consultants' report on the option of putting the Dublin light rail system underground in the city centre at the end of April. Given the short timescale for the overall study and given the volume of analytical work and evaluation which the consultants have to carry out within a very tight timetable, they will not be in a position to reach any useful conclusions until late in the study. An interim report would not, therefore, advance the decision making process and could delay completion of their final report.

The consultants' report will be received in time to be taken into account during the review of EU funding for the Luas and other projects. This review will take place later in the Spring in preparation for a meeting of the Community Support Framework Monitoring Committee which I understand has been scheduled for June.

At my meeting with Commissioner Wulf-Mathies last November I briefed her fully on the current position in the Luas project.

Details of the plans to improve Dublin's existing public transport network — many of which were outlined in the Deputy's study yesterday — thereby contributing towards easing the traffic congestion, were set out in my reply to Question No. 58 on 16 December 1997. These plans include implementation of the 11 quality bus corridors and three DART-suburban rail corridors as recommended in the Dublin Transportation Initiative. Bus Átha Cliath is continuing to upgrade its bus fleet and to review its network to meet changing passenger demand. New stations are planned on the Maynooth line and additional rail-cars are on order for the suburban rail network. It is essential that work on all these measures continues as, when completed, the light rail system will still only serve three of the 16 radial public transport corridors.

Ms O. Mitchell

The purpose of making this request for an interim report of the Atkins study was to allow us some time to prepare our case to Europe and to assure them that we are serious about proceeding with the Luas project and committed to proceeding with it immediately. I know the Minister is aware that the Commissioner stated that she wanted to see progress this spring. I notice spring is rapidly turning to summer. The six month report is now due at the end of April instead of March, as was previously promised. It is now eight months since the cancellation of the public inquiry.

The truth is that we have made no progress whatsoever. We have gone backwards. Is it not unreasonable after eight months to ask for at least some indication of whether an underground option is being considered? It may or may not be in time to save the EU funds, but at least it would give us time to go to plan B.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

A question, please. The purpose of Question Time is to elicit information from the Minister not to impart information.

Ms O. Mitchell

Does the Minister have a plan if the underground option in recommended?

Mrs. O'Rourke

From the outset the date we gave the consultants, which I announced in reply to several questions in the Dáil, was the end of April, not March. What exactly does Deputy Mitchell mean by plan B?

Mr. Yates

If it recommends underground, what will the Minister do?

Ms O. Mitchell

If an option is given to run the system underground or partially underground, has the Minister given any direction to the Luas team to prepare for such an eventuality, for instance, to proceed with the building of the line as far as the city boundary in the case of either Tallaght or Dundrum? Is there a plan to use any other public transport option such as the provision of additional buses? The Minister outlined her plans for public transport and referred to quality bus corridors, but quality bus corridors without sufficient buses are not any use to the citizens of Dublin. What is plan B? What initiative will be brought forward if the EU money is lost or if there is a recommendation to route the system underground?

Mrs. O'Rourke

I have outlined the plans of the Dublin Transportation Office. They include implementation of 11 quality bus corridors; three DART suburban rail corridors; Bus Átha Cliath is continuing to upgrade its bus fleet and will review its network to meet changing passenger demand; new stations are planned on the Maynooth line and additional rail cars are on order for the suburban rail network. Regardless of whether the Luas project is over or underground, it will account for only three out of the 16 radial public transport corridors. We cannot get away from that fact.

I realise people become frustrated when they are caught up in traffic, but I recently attended a major seminar on traffic congestion and the majority of people in attendance told me afterwards that they will not use Luas because it would not suit their requirements. The nonappearance of Luas has become a crutch on which people have put their anguish about the traffic problem in Dublin, and I understand that, but it will take up only three out of the 16 radial public transport corridors.

I congratulate Deputy Mitchell on her proposal. I have long been a supporter of Deputies bringing forward position papers, consultation documents, etc. when in Opposition, and in Government also when the opportunity arises. It increases one's knowledge of various issues. In the Deputy's document, her party leader referred to investment in Bus Átha Cliath and the need for more buses. Bus Átha Cliath is aware of that and plans to invest in additional buses to fill those quality bus corridors.

Mr. Stagg

The logic of the Minister's reply is that everybody should vote for the Fine Gael candidate in Dublin North if the document is so good.

Mrs. O'Rourke

No, I just think it is a good idea.

Mr. Stagg

Can I be parochial and ask the Minister if she would be specific about the new stations for the Maynooth line? Are they proposals or decisions to proceed? On the question of the study and putting Luas underground, to paraphrase a person who is a very good friend of mine——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

A question please, Deputy Stagg.

Mr. Stagg

——will the Minister tell us what the consequences of that will be? Will she agree that the original proposals, to which I was party, are now largely discredited? Will she agree also that it is not possible to have a mixture of Luas and an underground system? Is it not the case that we must either have one system or the other? My understanding is that we will have much larger trains in an underground system than in the Luas on-street system. What are the consequences of a decision to go underground if that is the outcome?

Mrs. O'Rourke

I do not know if it is possible to have a mixture of over and underground systems because we do not have the report and I do not know what will come out of it. If the consultants indicate that an underground system is the way to proceed, we will then plan for that.

Mr. Stagg

Will that take a long time?

Mr. Yates

That will take years.

Mrs. O'Rourke

The whole project will take years, in case Deputy Yates does not know.

Ms O. Mitchell

Three years, of which one has passed.

Mrs. O'Rourke

There is a very interesting file on Luas in my office dating from the time of the last Government. I will have great fun some day in the future when various viewpoints will be unveiled.

Mr. Currie

Is that a promise or a threat?

Mrs. O'Rourke

Deputy Stagg asked me about the Maynooth line. We are making a bid for Cohesion Funds and one of the ideas being put forward is the Maynooth line.

Ms O. Mitchell

This is not a matter for philosophical discussion for the people living along the three lines. What are the alternatives for the thousands of people for whom Luas offered the only hope of public transport if the scheme is delayed by going for the underground option?

Mr. Yates

I want to ask the Minister a specific question. In my party's analysis of the traffic crisis, and taking into account the work of Owen Keegan and the traffic department in Dublin Corporation, there is a major change in car parking arrangements. There is now a charge for all inner city off-street parking. The purpose of that is to get more people out of the car and into the bus. What exactly is the proposed increased capacity in the short-term by Dublin Bus for those commuters, given that on most radial routes there is standing room only one-third of the way along the route? The existing capacity must be increased by 30 per cent or 40 per cent. With the change in the traffic department's decision on parking, what is Dublin Bus doing to increase capacity?

Mrs. O'Rourke

The question I was asked was on Luas.

Mr. Yates

And any other public transport responses.

Mrs. O'Rourke

I do not have the number of buses in my file that Bus Átha Cliath will need to adhere to all the rosy plans Fine Gael has for us all. One would never think it was only six months out of office. To answer Deputy Mitchell, who tabled the question, there will be a Luas system which will be in existence long after everybody in this House has gone. When I came into the Department I discovered that no objective evaluation of the proposals had been carried out. This is a matter that will change the face of the city, yet no Minister had made any examination of the proposals, and I did not intend to hang my hat on half baked proposals.

Written Answers follow Adjournment Debate.