Vol. 488 No. 6
8 Mr. D. Carey asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform when the report he requested from the Attorney General on the operation of the poor box system in the District Court will be available; the names of the charities and the amounts received by each charity from the court's poor box in 1996 and 1997; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6613/98]
30 Mr. L. Burke asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform when the report he requested from the Attorney General on the operation of the poor box system in the District Court will be available; the names of the charities and the amounts received by each charity from the court's poor box in 1996 and 1997; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6615/98]
35 Ms Clune asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform when the report he requested from the Attorney General on the operation of the poor box system in the District Court will be available; the names of the charities and the amounts received by each charity from the court's poor box in 1996 and 1997; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6618/98]
60 Mr. Coveney asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform when the report he requested from the Attorney General on the operation of the poor box system in the District Court will be available; the names of the charities and the amounts received by each charity from the court's poor box in 1996 and 1997; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6619/98]
67 Mr. Yates asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform when the report he requested from the Attorney General on the operation of the poor box system in the District Court will be available; the names of the charities and the amounts received by each charity from the court's poor box in 1996 and 1997; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6612/98]
69 Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform when the report he requested from the Attorney General on the operation of the poor box system in the District Courts will be available; the names of the charities and the amounts received by each charity from the court's poor box in 1996 and 1997; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6616/98]
88 Mr. Sheehan asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform when the report he requested from the Attorney General on the operation of the poor box system in the District Court will be available; the names of the charities and the amounts received by each charity from the court's poor box in 1996 and 1997; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6617/98]
128 Mr. Deenihan asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform when the report he requested from the Attorney General on the operation of the poor box system in the District Courts will be available; the names of the charities and the amounts received by each charity from the courts' poor box in 1996 and 1997; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6614/98]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 8, 30, 35, 60, 67, 69, 88 and 128 together.
The advice of the Attorney General on the operation of the poor box was sought towards the end of 1997. A response is currently being awaited. As soon as it is received a full review of the operation of the court poor box will be carried out.
Individual judges, from time to time, order that contributions be paid into the poor box or directly to a named charity rather than convicting and fining a defendant in the usual way. The funds are paid out to various charities at the direction of the judge. No details are available as to what charities receive funds or how much they receive.
(Mayo): Is the Minister not aware that £305,481 was raised in 1996 through contributions to the poor box? Is he not aware that this amount was made up of specific amounts sent in by District Court clerks, that this is public money and, therefore, there is an obligation of accountability? These contributions were for specific so-called charities. Why is the Minister not in a position to get this information which is available from the court clerks who collect the individual amounts which make up the gross figures?
As I said, the matter is under review. I am concerned about the operation of the poor box in some courts. That is the reason I sought the opinion of the Attorney General in relation to the matter. Obviously I cannot complete any review without taking his advice which is of pivotal importance, as the Deputy will know. There has been an increase in recent years in the amount of money obtained from the court poor box, but while I am aware of Deputy Higgins's tenacity in relation to this matter, it is not something I wish to deal with without consideration, review and detailed legal advice.
Will the Minister agree that this whole process is rather odd and is like something from the days of Charles Dickens? If we are to continue with this system, would it be advisable to have a list of approved charities? The question arises as to what is a charity in the context of these types of donations but it is an unusual way of doing business at this stage of development.
I questioned the former Minister, Deputy Owen, about this matter when I was in Opposition. She told me she did not have any intention of changing the practice at that time. My concern is not based on the fact that charities gain benefit from the system — I am sure that is not the concern of Deputy Upton or Deputy Higgins — but that there should be a degree of order and consistency in the system. I am reflecting public concern and that of the Deputies when I say that this matter has to be examined.
I am not aware of any list. The designation of the charities is a matter for the presiding judge but I understand payments are made to a wide variety of charities. It appears that money which is paid into the poor box is recorded separately in the general cash account in the District Court offices and moneys are paid out, in the main to local charities, on foot of a direction from a District Court judge. The accounts are audited by my Department's internal audit unit and are open to audit by the Comptroller and Auditor General.
Each individual court office maintains records of the moneys received and paid out under the system so there are no central records other than the total amounts received in each office. That is the reason I am unable to list the charities or specify where the money goes. It is important to have cohesion and consistency in the system. When the review has been completed I will report back to the Deputies in relation to this matter.
(Mayo): I appreciate the Minister's concern about this matter and I hope it is brought to a speedy conclusion. Is the Minister aware the practice of using the court poor box still persists and that there is a two tier system of justice where those who can pay a substantial amount by way of a one to one agreement with the judge walk scot-free with no record, no conviction and no endorsement while those who cannot pay are penalised? Is he aware that since we discussed this matter, in Kells District Court, for example, a gentleman who was stopped while travelling at 102 miles per hour, for which there is no excuse, reached an agreement with the judge and the only penalty was that he had to pay £1,000 into the court poor box. In the case of a gentleman from County Tyrone, there was no conviction and the summons was wiped out. His contribution of £750 was given to a garda in court who intended to do a marathon, admittedly for a good cause, the hospice movement. At the same court a person from Drogheda was fined £150 and had his licence endorsed, a person from Navan who had not displayed tax was fined £30 and a person was fined £200 and had his licence endorsed for uninsured driving.
The Deputy is giving more information than he is seeking.
(Mayo): Seven people who appeared at that court had their licences endorsed while two gentlemen who drive high powered cars and have plenty of money in their back pockets reached agreement with the judge. Is there not a golden circle in operation, which sends out a very bad signal? I urge the Minister as a matter of urgency to ask the Attorney General to immediately put forward his recommendations, which I hope will result in stamping out the practice.
I will not accuse the Judiciary of operating golden circles. Decisions reached and penalties imposed in any court case are entirely a matter for the presiding judge. As I pointed out on more than one occasion, the Judiciary is entirely independent under the Constitution in the exercise of its functions. I share the concerns about the operation of the court poor box in some courts and I sought the advice of the Attorney General with regard to the statutory basis for the court poor box. The poor box system is used by most district justices to some degree, but the vast majority of judges use it only in a very limited number of cases. The court poor box system may be used in lieu of a fine or in addition to a fine. I am not in a position to comment further on that. When I have the Attorney General's advice, that will become part of the full review and we will then consider the entire position and decide where we will go from there.
