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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 28 Apr 1998

Vol. 490 No. 2

Order of Business.

It is proposed to take No. 6, motion re Joint Committee on Broadcasting and Parliamentary Information; No. 7, motion re Standing Order 92; No. 8, motion re Orders of Reference of Committees and No. 9, Financial Motion by the Minister for Finance.

It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that (1) the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. and business shall be interrupted not later than 9.30 p.m.; (2) Nos. 6, 7 and 8 shall be decided without debate and (3) No. 9 shall not be considered in committee until after the conclusion of Private Members' business tonight and the following arrangements shall apply: (i) the proceedings thereon, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 9.30 p.m. tonight; (ii) Members shall be called upon in the following sequence and the speeches in each case shall not exceed the times indicated: Minister for Finance and the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party and the Labour Party 20 minutes, main spokesperson for Democratic Left 15 minutes, and main spokesperson for the Green Party ten minutes; (iii) the speech of each other Member called upon shall not exceed ten minutes in each case; (iv) Members may share time, and (v) the Minister for Finance shall be called upon not later than 6.50 p.m. tonight to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed ten minutes; provided that if the proceedings on No. 9 conclude earlier than the time stated, any division demanded thereon shall be postponed until 9.30 p.m. tonight.

Private Members' business shall be No. 31, National Sports Council of Ireland Bill, 1998, Second Stage.

Is the proposal for dealing with the late sitting agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 6, 7 and 8 agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 9 agreed? Agreed.

Earlier today the Taoiseach was coy in response to questions about the Luas project. Does he intend to arrange a debate on the project given that the Government received the report before the weekend and its spinners then tried to suggest the report recommended that the project should go overground as the previous Government had agreed? A row obviously broke out at today's Cabinet meeting because the Minister for Public Enterprise did not get her way. A press conference had been arranged for 3 p.m. but she had to use the opportunity to tell the public how the Government intended to make the decision about the Luas project.

The matter does not arise on the Order of Business.

The Deputy has got it wrong for the second week in a row.

It was referred to earlier and it is not in order to raise it on the Order of Business.

It is in order to ask if there will be a debate on the matter.

It is not in order.

The report has been made available to the public but I understand it has not yet been made available to Members of the House. Where is the Minister for Public Enterprise? She is usually in the House, telling us what she is doing.

She is at a press conference.

She has gone into hiding because she was embarrassed into holding a press conference at which she could not make an announcement.

The Deputy should watch the news at 6 p.m.

I told Deputy Shatter and Deputy Owen earlier that the Government had considered the report. Some members of the Government received the report yesterday morning while others received it this morning. The Cabinet received a full presentation this morning from the consultants which was followed by a 90 minute discussion. Some members of the Cabinet will meet later in the week to bring together the various aspects of the report and a final decision will be made next week. The report has been made available to members of the Opposition. A shorter version will be given to all other Members this evening.

What was the purpose of the press conference?

The Minister was at the press conference, which I understand was well attended, to present the conclusions of the report and to answer all the relevant questions.

Did she survive without black eyes?

It is more vacillation on the Government's part.

The Government should take a decision.

Given that the Government has published the report and convened a press conference to make its contents known to the public does the Government intend to make time available to debate the report in the House before a decision is made on the matter?

That is a matter for the Whips.

The Government should take a decision.

The Government takes decisions.

The Government is embarrassed.

We will not be the same as the previous Government which did little or nothing.

The Government has wasted ten valuable months.

This matter was discussed earlier.

I wish to raise the issue of time in the House rather than the matter itself. Do I understand from the Taoiseach's response that the Government will make a decision some time next week, but if the Whips so decide — the Government Chief Whip will have his instructions — a discussion on the report could be held? If that is the correct interpretation of his comments, is it the Government's or the Taoiseach's intention to hold a debate in the House before or after a decision is made?

I agreed to a request made some weeks ago for a debate after the report was published. I do not mind if there is a debate.

Will it be held before or after the decision is made?

There will be a debate if the Whips arrange it. The Government will make a decision next Tuesday one way or another.

There is not much point having a debate after the decision is made.

In view of the information given to the House by the Taoiseach with regard to processing the decision, will he indicate whether it is intended to include in the decision next week the extension of the Luas to the Ballymun area?

The list of legislation circulated by the Whip's Office on 20 April stated that in the event of legislation being necessary arising from the agreement in Northern Ireland, other legislation would be displaced by the preparation of such Bills. Will the Taoiseach prepare a programme of legislation which will be necessary under the Agreement and present a timetable to the House? It is important to demonstrate to all concerned, North and South, that we are serious about the implementation of the Agreement. I understand from the Agreement that the type of legislation which will be necessary relates to a commitment to establish a human rights commission and the commitment to proceed as quickly as possible to ratify the Council of Europe framework convention on national minorities. It also includes the implementation of enhanced employment equality legislation, the introduction of equal status legislation, the continuation of further active steps to demonstrate respect for the different traditions on the island and the amendment of the Offences Against the State Act. I presume this will abolish the offence of demonstrating outside Leinster House.

All aspects of the Luas project, including the original plans and the extensions, will be taken into account by the Government in its decision. A great number of extensions have been visualised not only in current reports but in recent reports, and Ballymun is one of those. It will take many years before most of those will be dealt with and we should not mislead the public — I made that point when I was Leader of the Opposition. On the second aspect, I will bring forward legislation, but it is too early to say what that legislation will involve. There is a marker down that the time and resources of the draftsman are limited and whatever Bills will be required for the Agreement will take precedence over others.

The previous Government made a specific decision that the Ballymun link would follow implementation of the existing plans for Luas and the various bodies concerned undertook preliminary project work on that extension. Will that decision remain intact and will it be pursued? I may pursue this matter by way of parliamentary question on another occasion.

It would be more appropriate to proceed in that way.

Will the Taoiseach agree to my suggestion about legislation promised under the Northern Ireland Agreement, that he will prepare a programme for the implementation of that legislation which would indicate the timetabling for it? That is essential in terms of demonstrating our bona fides in regard to the implementation of every aspect of that Agreement.

That is a matter for a parliamentary question.

In view of the extreme concern in the Cork area and throughout the country about the vicious rape of an eight year old in Cork, is the Taoiseach satisfied the Garda has sufficient resources to ensure the person involved is apprehended?

The Deputy should raise that matter by giving notice on the Adjournment. It is not appropriate on the Order of Business to raise important matters of that kind.

Three days after the crime was committed nobody has been apprehended.

Those matters cannot be dealt with adequately on the Order of Business. They are totally out of order and because of the seriousness of the matter it cannot be dealt with now. The Deputy should pursue the matter in a proper manner.

On the matter raised by the leaders of the three parties in Opposition, the decision on Luas, will the Taoiseach explain the significance of an amendment pushed today in the Select Committee on the Environment and Local Government to accept in the Roads (Amendment) Bill and amendment of the Dublin Light Rail Act to facilitate an underground option? Is that an indication of the Government's intention, or did it expect the report to come to a different conclusion?

It is an indication of indecision.

That issue covers tunnelling generally.

The Government should go underground.

The Bill deals with——

That is a matter of detail and it is not appropriate to the Order of Business.

——tunnelling generally, but the section to which I am referring is an amendment of the Dublin Light Rail Act which specifically deals with Luas.

If it deals with tunnelling it must be a matter for the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform.

It is clear from what Deputy Howlin said that the Government was preparing for a different result from the Atkins report. That is a better explanation of why the Cabinet was thwarted today in making a decision. On 17 February, on the Refugee (Amendment) Bill, the Taoiseach said that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform would make an announcement on the matter shortly. He is so busy with other matters he made no announcement but he set up a committee. Worthy as that committee is in dealing with refugees and given the increase in racism in our community, will the Taoiseach say when the Refugee (Amendment) Bill will be before the House so that the issue of refugees can be handled expeditiously? Within a few miles of this House the Garda reports many instances of racism and violence against people who are seeking asylum. When will the legislation be before the House to rectify the position?

As I said previously on the Order of Business, the Minister decided some time ago to examine the issue again because clearly the legislation promised would not deal with the extent of the problem. As soon as that examination is complete, which I hope will be shortly, the Minister will make a comprehensive statement on the matter. If we were to continue along the present lines we would not deal with the matter in a suitable way.

Will the Taoiseach give a commitment that the matter will be expedited as a matter of urgency? There are facilities available for the draftsman to draw up such legislation. The Government will be to blame when serious issues come to the fore regarding the treatment of people from other countries.

The matter may not be discussed now.

The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has plenty of time to deal with the matter. He is doing nothing about the Garda problem and he should deal with this matter.

Given that most chairmanships of select committees are in the hands of Government Deputies, what steps is the Taoiseach taking to ensure legislation goes through committees quickly? At present there are eight Bills stuck in committees and it strikes me there will be long delays before the legislation goes through. Will the Taoiseach intervene to ensure legislation is dealt with expeditiously and that Committee Stage is completed as quickly as possible?

I will raise that matter with the chairpersons.

In light of today's decision by Justice Geoghegan on a challenge against the Moriarty tribunal where the judge said that the terms of reference were ambiguous, has the Government plans to amend the Tribunals of Inquiry (Amendment) Act which passed through this House and has yet to complete its passage through the Seanad?

Sorry, Deputy——

I am assisting the Taoiseach who has been busy today and may not be aware of this judgment. Since the Act requires specifically for only the chairperson of a tribunal to seek amendments, in light of this judgment from another justice, is the Government prepared to reconsider this matter, amend the legislation in the other House and bring it back here for clarification?

The matter is being attended to in the other House at present.

It may need additional attention from this House since the Taoiseach is responsible. In light of a judgment from the High Court today where a justice stated——

It is not the practice in this House to discuss the business of the other House when it is in session.

This Bill left this House and was challenged at the time. In light of the High Court judgment, will the Taoiseach indicate whether the Government will consider possible amendments either in the other House or in this House?

I have not yet seen the judgment, but the Attorney General has examined it. As I understand it, the justice stated that there was some ambiguity in the terms of reference. He proceeded to correctly interpret the wishes of this House on the two issues which he thought might be confusing. He then went on to deal with other matters. There seems to be nothing wrong with the terms of reference.

It is more than 14 months since the then Government commissioned a report by the Competition Authority into certain aspects of the drinks industry. Since this report has been ready for some time will the Taoiseach request a copy from the Competition Authority?

I understand the report is not available, certainly the Government has not received it.

Is it completed?

I understand it is not, but I will check that if the Deputy has other information.

It might not be available, but I understand the Competition Authority has reached its conclusion and there is a difficulty with publication. Will the Taoiseach find out the reason for that?

I will check that.

The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, when he opposed the licensing of a certain section of the security industry, gave a commitment to bring forward a Bill. There is no such proposal for this industry in the legislative programme produced three or four weeks ago. Is the Taoiseach aware we are sitting on a time bomb given the amount of drugs being used in many entertainment centres and that legislation is needed? When will the legislation be introduced?

The Minister said an overall review of the entire security industry was being carried out and that he would introduce legislation as soon as it is completed.

In last week's announcement on house prices, the Government said section 23 relief would be retained for certain urban renewal areas. When will the promised urban renewal Bill be published? Will it be published and dealt with in the Dáil before legislation to deal with the change to section 23?

The urban renewal Bill will be available shortly and that will be the appropriate time to raise any question on the contents. It will be the integrated Bill which, I assume, covers section 23.

In view of a report in one of this morning's newspapers that gardaí have advised black immigrants not to go out at night and that, as Dublin Deputies, in particular, know, there is a serious racism problem, when will the Taoiseach bring forward legislation to provide for the Human Rights Commission which is promised in the document on North-South development? Will he consider designating a Minister with responsibility for immigrant issues so that there is action on this issue before it is too late? I am concerned about this issue, as is the Taoiseach, and am worried at what I hear around Dublin.

I will bring forward a schedule on the times of legislation. This is a serious issues which is becoming more dangerous. The Deputy and I have spoken about it on a number of occasions, which is the reason we need a more comprehensive statement. The position one year ago is very different to that which pertains now.

When does the Government propose to introduce legislation on the minimum wage? Does it propose to carry out a full economic assessment in all sectors on the implications of the introduction of a minimum wage before it introduces the legislation?

Discussions are taking place between the social partners in the context of Partnership 2000. It will be some time before those discussions are completed. The Government will conclude and implement the report then.

When will legislation be introduced? Has the Government taken a decision prior to the discussions with the social partners? Some of the social partners have had no discussions about the minimum wage other than the submissions they made to the committee which was set up, not on a sectoral basis but with five individuals. Does the legislation come first? Has the Government made a decision and when will we know what it proposes to do?

There is a commitment in the programme for Government. The social partners, among others, wanted a commission to deal with the issue rather than allow the decision to be taken quickly. The social partners had an opportunity to put their case to the commission, as they did. Legislation will be required but until then, further discussions on its implementation are needed because that is where difficulties will arise. The social partners have given their views on that issue. When those discussions are finished, we will proceed with the legislation.

The Tánaiste already announced the rate of the minimum wage. Will the discussions be about changing that?

We cannot go into the matter any further.

It is not clear.

The Order of Business is not the occasion on which to get further clarification.

When will the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment make a decision on the involvement of Coillte with Balcas? Will the Taoiseach clarify whether the Cabinet is deeply divided and if a positive or negative decision will be made?

The decision was made on 9 April and discussed in the House last week.

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