John Bruton
Question:1 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent meeting with the EU Commissioner for Regional Affairs, Ms Monika Wulf-Mathies. [9861/98]
Ceisteanna—Questions. - Meeting with EU Commissioners.
I had a short meeting with Commissioner Wulf-Mathies on 20 April last, at which we discussed the Northern Ireland Agreement and the Commission's Agenda 2000 proposals.
In relation to the Agenda 2000 proposals, I outlined to the Commissioner the requirement for appropriate transitional agreements on Structural and Cohesion funding, and our strong objections to the agriculture proposals as they currently stand.
I thank the Taoiseach for his short reply; it must have been a brief meeting. Will he confirm that the Commissioner gave him an ultimatum that this country would lose £140 million in funds if the Government did not make a decision on Luas and proceed with it forthwith?
The Commissioner did not lay down any ultimatum to me. The meeting lasted an hour.
If no ultimatum was given, was the matter discussed with the Commissioner and, if so, what was the nature of that discussion? Given that the report of the expert group was delivered to the Government only last Friday, how is it in a position to make a decision and hold a press conference today if the matter did not arise with Commissioner Wulf-Mathies? Is that why it is coming up so quickly?
As the Deputy said, there is a press conference on the matter this afternoon and perhaps she should wait to see what happens there.
Why is this House not more entitled to know than the media?
I have no doubt that when decisions are made the House will know.
Not before the media.
The importance of all the issues in the Community Support Framework were discussed with the Commissioner. In answer to a question from me, she stated it was important that all the outstanding issues should be dealt with for the June meeting, in so far as that is possible, because it is the Commission's wish to deal with those issues this year so that these matters can be completed in the course of 1999. An extension past next year is only available for certain limited projects and the Commissioner and the Government are anxious to process as many of these issues as we can. For the Deputy's information, there are between eight and ten items which we must try to complete over the next few months.
In the course of the Taoiseach's discussion with the Commissioner, did she raise the funding for the proposed national conference centre? Did she or her officials express concern about the decision-making process on that matter?
The issue was raised in terms of making sure we are in a position to take up the funding available. I reported to the Commissioner that we were having delays in the ongoing process but we did not discuss the contents of the process.
Can the Taoiseach indicate the ten or so items outstanding which need to be clarified between now and next year and which could possibly be carried beyond 1999 when the CSF ends?
I have none of the information with me but among them are Luas, the conference centre and three or four sewerage schemes. The others are all environmental matters which have to be completed. Most of the delays would be as a result of third party objections or a consultation process which has not been completed.
Did the Commissioner confirm or indicate strongly that it might be the Commission's view that, in the event that internal administrative arrangements led to failure to execute a decision on the conference centre, the £25 million available from the EU could not be diverted to another project?
I did not get into the detail of that decision but my reading is that the money is for that project.
If, for whatever reason — as two Administrations have been involved, I am not inclined to kick footballs — forces which are not democratically represented in this House fail to make a clear decision that is not subject to a legal challenge, will the Taoiseach confirm that the European Commission has indicated clearly that the £25 million cannot be veered towards any other project, be it roads, sanitary services or otherwise?
I have taken the view on these projects that the moneys should be used for the purposes for which they were approved. It will be open to us to make the case to the Community Support Framework review committee in June that they should be altered but that is not a practice of which I am supportive. The moneys were negotiated for specific purposes and they should be used for those purposes.
I am sure the Taoiseach will accept that it is stretching credulity to ask us to accept that he did not discuss the Luas project with the Commissioner given that it was one of the 12 items included in the basket of items——
Let me help the Deputy. It was indicated that the report on the Luas project would be made available shortly. That is what the discussion amounted to. The report was made available at the weekend.
Did the Taoiseach ask about the money?
I thank the Taoiseach for clarifying the matter. He appeared to indicate that it was not discussed. In light of the admission that the Luas project was discussed, did he undertake with the Commissioner to look at the question, as the previous Government did, of extending the Luas project to Ballymun? Does the Government's decision of this morning include a timetable for the extension of the Luas project to that area?
The Commissioner for Regional Affairs, Monika Wulf-Mathies, was in Dublin on Monday to meet a number of Ministers. She asked if she could meet me and I was delighted to do so. She went through in great detail with relevant Ministers the various issues that she wished to discuss. The greater part of the time I spent with her was taken up with a discussion of the Northern Ireland Agreement and the Commission's role. Everything else was dealt with briefly. At a press conference presently the Minister for Public Enterprise will outline the proposals in the report on the Luas project.
Why can she not outline them here?
It will be clear to the Deputy that there are still matters under consideration.
Has the Taoiseach or the Minister for Public Enterprise, as a result of today's Cabinet meeting, been in further contact by telephone with the Commissioner or her offices to advise of the Government's conclusions on the report on the Luas project? When will the report be made available to Members of the House? Will the Taoiseach agree that it is in violation of the spirit of the Freedom of Information Act that it has not yet been circulated and acknowledge that it is a contempt to the House that the announcement will be made outside it at 3 p.m.? Will he accept that it will be the first time in world history that a train will have done a U-turn?
The Deputy is on the wrong track.
In believing that the Government received the report yesterday — most of my colleagues received it today — the Deputy is probably giving us more credit than we deserve for the speed of our decisions.
Have decisions been made today regarding what is to happen the Luas project?
Question No. 1 is not about Luas.
The issue arises directly out of the Taoiseach's reply; as the Taoiseach's reply dealt with it, I am entitled to raise it as a supplementary. I will be very brief. Will the Taoiseach advise the House whether the Government decided today to give the green light to Luas and to get it back on track or has it derailed the project? The House is entitled to know that.
I have ruled that specific questions on Luas do not relate to this question, which is about a meeting with the EU Commissioner. Only supplementary questions arising from that question are allowed.
I have no wish to be argumentative but it is my understanding that it is a long-standing rule of the House that when the Taoiseach deals with an issue in a direct reply, supplementary questions can be asked on the issue which he raised. That is all I am trying to do.
The Deputy has departed too far from the precedent.
The Taoiseach is, in any case, offering to reply on the issue. We are entitled to know whether this project is still on track or whether it has been derailed.
If the Taoiseach wishes to make a brief reply to that I will allow it.
I did not agree with the way in which the House operated. I know it is not your wish, Sir, for Taoisigh to do what was done by previous Taoisigh, which was to stick strictly to the reply and give no further information. If the House wished me to do that I would give far shorter replies and the Ceann Comhairle, would then have no option but to apply the precedent of the House, which would mean I would not have answered any of the questions I have answered during the past 17 minutes.
The Government discussed the matter referred to by Deputy Shatter today. Most members of the Government received the report either last night or this morning. The Government decided today on the decision making process it will operate on this matter. The report will be published shortly.
On a point of order——
We cannot have any further——
——the Taoiseach has confirmed that at 3 p.m., ten minutes from now——
That is not a point of order.
——there will be a press conference about this issue.
What did the Deputy do when she was in Government?
We are asking for your protection. Is this House entitled to know what the Minister for Public Enterprise will say at that press conference at 3 p.m? If the Taoiseach knows the answer he should give it to the House and not wait to put a spin on it.
The Taoiseach has given an answer.
That is not a point of order. I call on Deputy Jim Higgins for what I hope will be a relevant supplementary question.
The Government is afraid to answer questions on what it is doing about Luas. It wants to spin questions at a press conference.
Order please. I call Deputy Jim Higgins.
The Minister for Public Enterprise should be in the House.
(Mayo): Did the Taoiseach discuss with Commissioner Wulf-Mathies the burning issue of Objective 1 status for the west and the Border counties? Did he apprise her that when in Opposition he gave a clear, unequivocal commitment to having the west and the Border counties included in Objective 1 status? Did he apprise her that in the Government programme, An Action Programme for the Millennium, he said Objective 1 status would be sought for the west, the Border regions and all other rural areas suffering from population decline for the post 1999 period?
All those matters were discussed in great detail by the Commissioner and the Minister for Finance, who will answer questions later today.
That the Taoiseach's colleague announced a deep sea port for the west and north-west region last week is not relevant to Commissioner Wulf-Mathies but in regard to the Commissioner controlling the funding for the national conference centre, the independent product management board was unable to deal with the conclusion of the tender submitted because of lack of clarity on account of a Government decision last year about disposal of lands in the Dublin docklands area and a letter from CIE which indicated it had the right to dispose of land. Has that matter been resolved? It was the stumbling block which prevented the independent board from arriving at a conclusion.
I have had no discussions on that issue but, for the information of the Deputy, the board is meeting tomorrow to try to sort out the issue.
Which board?
Bord Fáilte.
Did the Taoiseach discuss with the EU Commissioner the possibility of Ireland receiving additional funds from allocations to other member states where it is obvious that such moneys will not be used before the completion date of programmes? If not, has he any proposals to do so?
I know from my briefing that this matter was discussed with the Department of Finance. Unlike in previous years, there will not be as much money left over from other countries.
In the context of the Taoiseach's earlier reply, when he indicated that the report on Luas would be available shortly, will he clarify if it will be provided to the media at the meeting to be held at 3 p.m. and will Members of this House receive it today?
I understand my colleague, the Minister for Public Enterprise, has sent or will send copies to at least the party leaders and some spokespersons of the Opposition parties. I am sure everybody else will receive it shortly.
Each Member should get it today.
I understand that is her intention. I will raise the matter with her.