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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 6 May 1998

Vol. 490 No. 5

Ceisteanna—Questions. - Northern Ireland Peace Process.

Proinsias De Rossa

Question:

5 Proinsias De Rossa asked the Taoiseach the outcome of his meeting with the president of Sinn Féin, Mr. Gerry Adams, MP, on 23 April 1998, if he raised with the Sinn Féin delegation the plight of the families of the disappeared in Northern Ireland; if so, the response, if any, he received; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [10505/98]

Proinsias De Rossa

Question:

6 Proinsias De Rossa asked the Taoiseach if a member of the Government has been given responsibility for co-ordinating and monitoring the implementation of the various commitments entered into by this State under the Good Friday Agreement; the timetable, if any, set for the implementation of the commitments; if, in particular, he will outline the proposals, if any, which the Government has to implement the commitment to continue to take further active steps to demonstrate its respect for the different traditions on the island; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [10506/98]

Proinsias De Rossa

Question:

7 Proinsias De Rossa asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on the progress made in the printing and distribution of copies of the Good Friday Agreement. [10507/98]

Ruairí Quinn

Question:

8 Mr. Quinn asked the Taoiseach the plans, if any, he has to visit Northern Ireland in the near future; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [10520/98]

Ruairí Quinn

Question:

9 Mr. Quinn asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent meeting with the president of Sinn Féin, Mr. Gerry Adams; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [10522/98]

I propose to take Questions Nos. 5 to 9, inclusive, together.

I had a meeting with Sinn Féin on Thursday, 23 April and again on Friday, 1 May. We discussed follow-up to the Multi-Party Agreement, with particular reference to the referenda on 22 May. We did not discuss the issue of the disappeared on these occasions. I have repeatedly made clear to the republican movement my views and feeling on this matter. I will continue to do so.

I also met over the weekend with Prime Minister Blair. He and I discussed the positive reaction to the Multi-Party Agreement and how best to maximise the support for it in the forthcoming referenda. The Prime Minister and I remain fully committed to doing whatever is necessary to ensure the success of the process. I have no plans to visit Northern Ireland in the near future but I will avail of any suitable opportunities as they arise.

The Government's primary objective is to maximise the support of the people for the Multi-Party Agreement. Once the referenda have passed, implementation of the State's commitments arising from the Good Friday Agreement will be closely overseen by the Government, particularly the Ministers most closely concerned, that is myself and the Ministers for Foreign Affairs and Justice, Equality and Law Reform. Officials of all relevant Departments are already focused on the issues. There are specific timescales for particular matters set out on the Agreement and these must and will be adhered to.

In relation to specific steps being taken to demonstrate its respect for the different traditions on the island, I remind the Deputy of the Government's commitment in relation to the First World War Memorial at Messines in Belgium and of the interdepartmental committee, chaired by the Department of Foreign Affairs, which is examining the development of the site at the Battle of the Boyne. It is envisaged that concrete steps will be taken on foot of both these initiatives within the short term. The scope for further steps is being considered in a positive spirit.

Distribution of copies of the Good Friday Agreement to households throughout the country is progressing well. Some 1.4 million copies have been printed. Distribution began on Tuesday, 28 April and will be completed by Friday, 15 May at the latest.

When was the last time the Taoiseach raised the question of the disappeared with the political parties which are close to paramilitaries, Sinn Féin and the loyalist parties? The location of the bodies of the disappeared is one issue which would help heal the deep wounds in Northern Irish society. This is an issue on which the parties referred to could use their influence to seek to have the bodies recovered. In relation to the commitments in the Agreement, in particular the legislative commitments, is the Taoiseach co-ordinating the various Government Departments' response to those commitments? I refer in particular to the commitment to ratify the Council of Europe Framework Convention for national minorities to establish a human rights commission to implement and enhance employment equality legislation and to introduce equal status legislation? How soon can we have a timetable for the introduction of those measures?

Just a few weeks ago — I cannot recall the precise date — at the end of March or early April the relatives of the disappeared came to meet me and may also have met other Members. I had a lengthy discussion with them and got much detail about particular cases. Following that meeting I took up the named cases which date back to the 1970s. These are harrowing cases. Three or four of them were raised by the mothers of young men. I promised them I would seek whatever information I could and try to follow them through. I took up those particular cases. In the past I had taken up several cases but not of named people. I will continue to raise those cases and hope I will receive some feedback. There is contact with the republican movement about some of these cases but my information is sketchy and is not sufficiently authoritative to put before the House.

With regard to the second question, as of now and until after the referenda my officials and the officials in the Department of Foreign Affairs and in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform will be involved. At this stage I have gone through the agreement and, where we have given firm commitments, I am co-ordinating what we must do, how we can do it and a timescale and process for benchmarking these commitments and ensuring they are fulfilled.

Is it the Government's policy to raise the location of the disappeared with so-called Republican prisoners, who have either been transferred from the United Kingdom to this jurisdiction or who have been released, or the organisations of which they purport to be members — as distinct from Sinn Féin which diplomatically disclaims a formal connection? In the course of the dialogue the Government will have with regard to the release of such prisoners, will specific information with regard to the location of the disappeared be a factor in the consideration of those releases? The Government does not have responsibility for loyalist paramilitaries but does the Taoiseach not agree that any such step taken by the Irish Government should be replicated by the British Government?

Mr. Gerry Adams has repeatedly stated that this is a matter for the paramilitaries and not for Sinn Féin. The Irish Government has paramilitaries from the Nationalist side in custody and they would be a primary source of information since they are members of an organisation which knows in most cases where the disappeared are located. Does the Taoiseach not agree that some form of information, even if it is inconclusive, should be communicated to the relatives? Would he consider that constructive in the process of creating the climate of peace and reconciliation which is clearly necessary?

As far as I know the prisoners are asked if they and the organisation with which they are involved are removed from involvement in violence and whether they will return to violence and on their reassurance the prisoners are released under licence. However, such questioning is a possibility with regard to trying to find the whereabouts of the disappeared.

From the limited checks I have been able to make, I am aware it is not necessary that people get this information. There are many circumstances surrounding this issue which are too gruesome to discuss here. Some of the cases date from 20 to 25 years ago. In more recent cases, information has been forthcoming and some progress has been made. However, most of the cases being pursued by the disappeared action group date from the 1970s. If information is available at any level it is our obligation to pursue it. Before I got involved in this issue I thought it would be easier to pursue particular information but it is not that simple. Some of the people who were involved in active units during the 1970s are themselves long dead or vanished and the information, unfortunately, is not as easy to get as I thought.

Will the Taoiseach join me in welcoming the decision announced today by the Ard Chomhairle of Sinn Féin that it will recommend a "yes" vote to its Árd Fheis which resumes on Sunday, 10 May? Will he also agree that it is essential that delegates to the Árd Fheis and supporters of Sinn Féin, North and South, recognise that the success of the Agreement, to which the Taoiseach's negotiating skills were central, depends on the integrity and entirety of the Agreement being accepted? It cannot be cherry-picked. One cannot selectively identify the bits and pieces with which one agrees. In coming days those who contemplate supporting the Agreement must recognise, as the Taoiseach has said on a number of occasions in public, that the integrity of the entire Agreement must be respected, otherwise progress will not be made.

I agree totally with the Deputy. I wish the Sinn Féin Ard Comhairle well at its conference at which, like all conferences, there will be difficulties. It might be more helpful, therefore, if I say as little as possible. As I have said endlessly, the Agreement cannot be changed at the edges or interpreted in a flexible, vague or ambiguous way. It has to be dealt with on that basis. That applies to everybody. On examination, those who saw difficulties with the Agreement early on now see that it is balanced and can deal with age old difficulties. It is important to convince the electorate of this and ensure there is a high turn out.

In the course of the discussions did the Taoiseach ask if Sinn Féin had any plans to make money available to campaign for the Agreement to ensure a satisfactory vote in the North? Has the Taoiseach been in touch with Mr. Gerry Adams since about the IRA statement in An Phoblacht last week in which it said that it will not regard the result of the vote as being democratic and that it will not give up any of its weapons?

I discussed that statement with Mr. Gerry Adams when I met him last Friday. What I said after the meeting is on record. To be involved, there must be a commitment to non-violent and exclusively peaceful and democratic means. I did not ask about Sinn Féin's campaign or its ability to spend money. I have not raised that issue with any party. Sinn Féin is not bad at getting its voters out.

Will the Taoiseach agree that a "yes" vote in the North and South would give the new institutions to be created greater authority, political and moral, than any institution on this island has ever had, greater than that of the institutions created in 1920, 1921 and 1937? Will he also agree that the higher the "yes" vote the greater the authority and the greater the risk to be taken by any group which may seek to challenge the decision? On "the disappeared", will the Taoiseach agree in relation to confidence building measures that so far it has been a one way process and that this would be a major contribution by the republican movement to confidence building? Would he agree that a harder line should be taken in this matter? It is a human rights issue. Maybe we could enlist the support of some of our friends elsewhere, particularly in the United States.

One of the missing persons was particularly well known to me. That person disappeared within this jurisdiction and the likelihood is that the body remains within this jurisdiction. Perhaps progress could be made in relation to that case. We want progress in relation to all 13 people who have disappeared.

I repeat that we need progress on all of them and welcome any information that we can get anywhere. It would be a confidence building measure. I have stated that to Sinn Féin many times and through the broad speeches I have made to the republican movement about some of these missing people.

On the face of it, some of the investigations seemed simple enough and we thought there must be somebody who knows the information, but it is not quite so simple. We have to continue, however. If the Deputy gives me details of the case he mentioned I will see if anything can be done.

I gave the details many years ago, in writing, to the former Minister for Justice, Deputy Gerard Collins.

Where is he now?

If the Deputy wants me to raise the matter at some level——

In his pre-Scrap Saturday days.

I agree with Deputy Currie on the issue of the vote. The stronger the "yes" vote, both North and South, the stronger it will be for the institutions that will arise from the Agreement. Since the general election of 1918 different republican groups have believed they have a mandate for violence from that vote. They have interpreted it that way and people are familiar with the arguments. While Members of this House have argued about it for as long as the House has been in existence, people have tried to use that vote as some kind of a mandate. Republicans have felt strongly about it through the years. It is not a fair interpretation of what people did in 1918 but it has been used as such since that time.

This is the opportunity. For the first time since then, on a single vote and a single issue, people will have a chance of giving their answer to that argument, if there was any validity in it, concerning the vote of 1918. It was an act of self-determination and I do not accept any argument to the contrary.

On 22 May, people of all persuasions and denominations, North and South — including those who believe in the union with Britain, those who believe in a united Ireland and those who will not be pushed either way — will have an opportunity of giving their verdict on violence. The rest of the world will be watching. The importance of a huge "yes" vote is that the rest of the world will see this is the view of the people on this island that has been scarred so much by violence though the years. There is a danger if people are apathetic about this. It is not good enough to pray, march and articulate the case for peace if, when one gets an opportunity of voting for it, one does not do so. The pressure is on all of us to ensure that people turn out and sincerely show that the way the vote of 1918 has been used and abused by people will end.

We already know there will be groups who believe we are all wrong and that they know it all. They will continue their violent ways. It is important for us to be able to say that their mandate is effectively non-existent.

I entirely agree with what the Taoiseach has said. However, has he taken the opportunity of asking the leaders of the republican movement, face to face, why the mandate from a vote on this island — organised by an Irish Government, which they now recognise, in this part of the island, and organised by another Government in the other part of the island — is considered less than that from a vote organised in 1918 by a British Government in control of the whole island? What is the logic of saying this vote is a lesser mandate than that in 1918? It seems entirely illogical.

The Deputy has just answered his own question.

It is entirely illogical. I have endeavoured to convince people of the error of their ways. People might have felt it was different because the British were involved. However, that argument does not hold up. In more recent times the Federal Government in Germany organised a vote in East and West Germany. That was an act of self-determination and it has been internationally recognised as such. The logic of their argument does not stand up to scrutiny.

At one stage they did not recognise the courts or the councils.

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