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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 28 May 1998

Vol. 491 No. 5

Political Donations: Statements.

At the outset let me say I remain absolutely committed to the principles I set out in this House and elsewhere in regard to the need for absolute financial propriety and probity in the conduct of our public affairs. The issue of financial contributions to political parties has dogged and continues to dog democratic politics in many parts of the western world. I share the determination of everyone in this House that we have clear rules strictly observed so as to maintain full public confidence in the political process. Financial contributions to politicians should be made for strictly political purposes, be clearly accounted for and given with no other motive than the good government of this country and support for the democratic system as a whole.

In the past this was a relatively unregulated area. I have contributed in Government and Opposition to establishing tighter rules and guidelines. I deeply regret any departures in my party or any other party from the high standards that should have always been required. Where controversy or legitimate public concern arises or facts that have not hitherto been known come to light, they must be fully disclosed to the appropriate authority.

All of us in this House have a common interest in ensuring full clarity where there has been cause for concern. The tribunals we have established are, in my opinion, the best vehicle for following up any new disclosures if they can be brought within their jurisdiction and we should not try today to prejudice, pre-empt or cut across their work. That said, I am willing to listen to and consider any points put to me by other Deputies in this House.

Coming to the specifics of the case, let me say at the outset that Fianna Fáil has operated in a proper, transparent and above-board fashion in this matter. It has taken the appropriate action and has promised and provided its fullest co-operation to the Flood tribunal.

Earlier today, remarks I made while Leader of the Opposition were recalled. Those remarks, made at the time of the Dunne's tribunal, were that what matters most is how a political party reacts to knowledge when it becomes available. I am proud to say that in this matter, Fianna Fáil has lived up 100 per cent to this stern challenge by making available additional information that had not been specifically requested to the tribunal that has been delegated by the Dáil to deal with this matter. This will also become clear when I outline the sequence of events.

The Flood tribunal made an order for discovery and an order for production against the Fianna Fáil Party on 20 February 1998. There was nothing unusual in this and we understand that a variety of orders of discovery and inspection have been made by the tribunal against a number of persons including other political parties. The order for discovery dealt with contributions made by Mr. James Gogarty, Mr. Michael Bailey or any person or company connected with them. In addition, the tribunal sought discovery of documents relating to the payment of any sums of money by former Deputy Ray Burke to the Fianna Fáil national organisation since 1 January 1989.

An extensive affidavit of discovery was furnished by Fianna Fáil to the tribunal on 1 April 1998. At no stage prior to the delivery of the affidavit of discovery had the tribunal ever asked any questions of Fianna Fáil in relation to Rennicks, the Fitzwilton subsidiary referred to in Magill. It was the Fianna Fáil Party which volunteered and disclosed through the discovery process documentation in relation to Rennicks as was its bounden duty.

The first time I found out about Rennicks was when the affidavit of discovery for the Flood tribunal was being prepared by Fianna Fáil party officials. That affidavit was prepared in the weeks immediately before 1 April when a massive and exhaustive trawl of the party's files and books of nine years ago was undertaken. I was appraised in the latter half of March of the discoveries and full disclosure was made to the tribunal. It took some time to establish from the company concerned that it had a corresponding record confirming the contribution.

The affidavit, sworn on behalf of Fianna Fáil, discovered documents available to the party relating to the Rennicks transaction. The Fianna Fáil Party did receive from Ray Burke a contribution of £10,000 by way of bank draft. This was, in the normal course of events, credited to the account of the party.

The following documents were later discovered: (a) an official party receipt made out in the name of Rennicks acknowledging receipt of a sum of £10,000; (b) an extract from the cash receipts book showing the contribution from Rennicks to the sum of £10,000, and (c) a photocopy of a compliment slip from Rennicks accompanying the donation which also bore the name of Ray Burke.

Up to then, I had been given to understand that the £10,000 received by Fianna Fáil from Ray Burke in 1989 was drawn from a contribution he had received from Joseph Murphy Structural Engineering, and, even bearing in mind that he would certainly have received other smaller contributions, it was reasonable to presume that in the main it came from that source. The reason for this belief was because our inquiries last summer and last autumn had concentrated on establishing, following media allegations, if Ray Burke had received a large donation in 1989 from JMSE or people associated with it; if so, were there any special reasons; and if, as claimed, Fianna Fáil had received a £10,000 draft from Ray Burke.

Deputy Dermot Ahern travelled to London at my request to conduct an interview with the principal of JMSE. He was examining the array of allegations about whether Ray Burke had received a donation from JMSE or others involved in it, the amount and whether there were any special circumstances surrounding it. He was asked to do a specific task and he did that in a thorough fashion. Indeed, a full account of the Minister's inquiry is being furnished to the Flood tribunal.

At one stage, there were claims that Mr. Burke received £80,000 from that company or its principals leading to endless speculation about why he had been given the money so it was most prudent that we made our inquiries. I inquired as to whether Ray Burke had paid £10,000 to Fianna Fáil. It was quickly confirmed to me that Fianna Fáil had received a £10,000 draft from Ray Burke in 1989. My assumption was that this cheque came from the JMSE money or mainly from it.

I was not aware at the time Ray Burke made his statement in the Dáil that the £10,000 paid to the Fianna Fáil Party by Mr. Burke came from Rennicks. I similarly did not know that he had received, not one contribution of £30,000 in June 1989 but two amounting to £60,000, nor could this reasonably be inferred from his statement to the Dáil. I was apprised of these facts in the course of the preparation of the affidavit of discovery. It is a pity they were not brought to light earlier for the benefit of the House last autumn when the ministerial statement was made. I could not have clarified this on 5 September last year or at the time of Mr. Burke's statement in the Dáil because I knew nothing about Rennicks until we were in the course of preparing the affidavit.

It was the Fianna Fáil Party which disclosed to the tribunal the documentation in relation to Rennicks and that we only received one £10,000 contribution by way of bank draft from Mr. Ray Burke in 1989. At no stage prior to the delivery of the affidavit of discovery had the tribunal ever asked questions of Fianna Fail in relation to Rennicks. We were the ones who told it about Rennicks.

Some have suggested that I should have come to the House when these matters were discovered. There is surely no straighter, more direct or appropriate way to declare something than to swear it in an affidavit and to send the documents we had on this to the tribunal established by the Dáil and delegated to investigate the matters.

We deemed that the appropriate and most correct way to deal with this was to give what we had discovered to the tribunal and let it investigate it further and come to conclusions. As the House knows, Mr. Justice Flood has been appointed to investigate these issues and he should be allowed to do so without there being a parallel process ongoing in this House.

Fianna Fáil is giving full co-operation to the tribunal. Last week the lawyers for the tribunal contacted the solicitors to Fianna Fáil. The purpose of that contact was to arrange for inspection of the original documentation as discovered and disclosed in our affidavit and as furnished to them. On Tuesday the lawyers for the tribunal carried out an inspection of the original documentation as discovered. An official of the Fianna Fáil Party was present at that inspection to give assistance to the tribunal.

We will continue to give the fullest co-operation to the tribunal which should be allowed to continue with its work and our job will be to debate the tribunal's report and ensure appropriate remedial action is taken on foot of its recommendations. It was my conviction last autumn and remains my conviction today that due process should be followed.

The concerns I have expressed over an appropriate ethics commission which would be in a position to investigate allegations of this nature make it all the more urgent to have this legislation processed as quickly as possible. The Minister for Finance intends urgently proceeding with this.

The revelations in today's Magill magazine once again raise disquieting questions about the way Fianna Fáil in Government conducts business and its curiously lax approach to investigating allegations of wrongdoing. The Taoiseach has admitted investigating Mr. Ray Burke last year prior to appointing him Minister for Foreign Affairs. We were led to believe that he had reassured the Tánaiste that Mr. Burke had nothing to hide. Much was made of the travels to London by the Minister for Social, Community and Family Affairs, Deputy Dermot Ahern, to ensure this investigation was comprehensive and complete. The Taoiseach said he was satisfied that nothing improper had occurred. Yet, out of the blue today, we learn of another huge donation to Mr. Burke from a related company with which his Department had extensive and potentially lucrative dealings. On the basis of this performance the Minister, Deputy Dermot Ahern, would not get a job as an investigative inspector in his Department.

In May 1997, before he became Taoiseach, Deputy Bertie Ahern said he had investigated allegations against Mr. Burke, had gone to him on four separate occasions and gone through in detail the allegations against him. Did Mr. Burke tell the Taoiseach at the time about his contribution from Fitzwilton-Rennicks? Did the Taoiseach check party records at headquarters at the time as part of his pre-appointment investigation of Mr. Burke and, if not, why not, given that he had made much of this being a thorough investigation? If he did check party records, how come he did not find out about the Fitzwilton-Rennicks donation?

The Taoiseach must explain why, on 5 September 1997, he confirmed Mr. Burke's assertion that the £10,000 payment made to Fianna Fail headquarters in 1989 related to the JMSE donation to Mr. Burke even though Fianna Fáil now acknowledges having receipted Fitzwilton-Rennicks for the same payment at the time? Was the Taoiseach fully frank in his statement on this matter on 5 September last? Did he investigate Mr. Burke before appointing him Minister for Foreign Affairs or was the investigation just a pretence to seduce the Progressive Democrats?

On 8 October 1997 the Taoiseach repeated this misleading version when he told the Dáil that Mr. Burke had "retained less than half" of the JMSE £30,000 for his personal campaign. We now know that he retained it all and that it was from Fitzwilton-Rennicks money that he paid the £10,000 to Fianna Fáil headquarters.

When did the Taoiseach learn that his September statement was wrong? We are now told that it was some time in March. What sort of records does Fianna Fáil keep? Who is the president of Fianna Fáil? Who is responsible for the sort of records the party keeps? If a president of Fianna Fail is conducting an investigation into a particular Minister, does he not have access to party records in regard to fundraising?

There was no bonfire.

Did the Taoiseach tell the Tánaiste immediately of his concerns?

We will summon Deputy Lowry.

If the Flood tribunal issued an order of discovery on 20 February this year, the Taoiseach must have been aware two and a half months ago that he had misled the public in linking the £10,000 payment from Mr. Ray Burke to JMSE instead of Fitzwilton-Rennicks. Why did the Taoiseach not come into the House to correct the record of his Dáil statement of 8 October as soon as he knew it was misleading? It is not a defence to say he was bound to confidentiality in his disclosures to the tribunal. His first responsibility was to this House. The Taoiseach, knowingly, allowed a misleading statement made by him in October to remain on the record for two and a half months. By his own admission today he knew it was a misleading statement by him. It is hard to believe that last September, in confirming with his party officials that a £10,000 payment had been made by Mr. Burke to headquarters, the Taoiseach would not have found out that this payment was related to Fitzwilton-Rennicks not to JMSE.

To test the veracity of the Taoiseach's statements we need to know who in Fianna Fáil headquarters checked the 1989 records and if the Taoiseach interviewed the person who checked the records either during his investigation of Mr. Burke prior to his appointment or in the preparation of his Dáil statement of 8 October 1997. Did he check with the party accountant on either occasion?

It is extraordinary that a donation which was supposed to be for national party headquarters was handed to a Minister who had discretion to divert it to cash for his own benefit. It would have been much easier for Fitzwilton to post the cheque to Fianna Fáil headquarters. Everyone knows where Fianna Fáil headquarters is. They know the address.

Why did the Deputy not get Ben Dunne to post one to him rather than have him call out?

Is it usual for a public company using shareholders' funds to issue a cheque to cash? This bizarre method of payment is all the more difficult to justify if the Minister receiving the cash had had dealings in a ministerial capacity with Fitzwilton or companies with overlapping ownership with Fitzwilton. Did any present Fianna Fáil ministers know of the donation to Mr. Burke at the time or afterwards? Who were the party treasurers and were they told about it? Did they take any action and, if not, why not?

A spokesman for Fitzwilton has confirmed that the company made donations to two political parties prior to the 1997 general election. In the interests of transparency will the Taoiseach tell the House whether Fianna Fáil was one of these parties and, if so, how much the party received? Have any personal contributions been made by Fitzwilton to any members of the present Cabinet? It is important that all dealings by Mr. Burke as a Fianna Fáil Minister with companies with overlapping ownership with Fitzwilton now be fully investigated. Discussions between Mr. Burke and all other Ministers on such dealings with companies with overlapping ownership with Fitzwilton are a matter of valid public concern in the circumstances that have now been disclosed. Mr. Burke may have good and valid explanations, so also may Fitzwilton but the matter must be publicly explained. It has not been explained in the House by the Taoiseach.

The chairman of Fitzwilton plc, Dr. Tony O'Reilly, is an immensely successful businessman. He has created jobs and wealth in Ireland which all Governments have acknowledged. As is well known, he has extensive business interests in a wide range of areas. One of Dr. O'Reilly's interests concerns the television transmission system, MMDS, which was a source of considerable controversy in the lead up to and aftermath of the general election of June 1997. Mr. Burke was linked to that controversy. Dr. O'Reilly's newspapers took an unprecedented interest in the result of that election.

Was it not pay back time, Taoiseach?

Mr. Burke as Minister for Communications in the late 1980s issued licences for the operation of the television transmission system, MMDS. Of the 29 licences Mr. Burke awarded in 1989, 19 were awarded to Princes Holdings, a company associated with Independent Newspapers Plc., which is controlled by Dr. O'Reilly who also has a big interest in Fitzwilton. Nineteen of the 29 exclusive licences were issued to one company despite the fact that the regulations specifically required the then Minister Burke to have regard "to the desirability of allowing any person to have control of an undue number of programme retransmission systems." Was that monopolistic decision discussed at Cabinet at the time? Did the then and present five Fianna Fáil Ministers approve that monopolistic decision by the then Minister Burke?

In the change of portfolios after the 1989 election Mr. Burke, although he changed Departments, still retained the portfolio of communications which was transferred from his old Department of Industry to his new Department of Justice. That was considered a most unusual combination at the time. The communications brief was referred to by me as Mr. Burke's "personal baggage". This strange allocation of portfolios must have been the subject of discussion between the then Taoiseach and his Progressive Democrats coalition partners. Why did the Progressive Democrats agree to the allocation of the communications portfolio to Mr. Burke after the 1989 election? Did they ask any questions about it and, if not, why did the Progressive Democrats negotiators, who included Deputy O'Malley, not ask questions?

A few of the Deputy's colleagues are also missing.

The Deputy's ten minutes have concluded.

I would appreciate it if I could be allowed to complete my contribution.

Is that agreeable to the House? Agreed.

The Deputy will have more time later on.

Members should not deflect him now.

The Deputy is in favour of deflectors.

In February 1991, Mr. Burke, the then Minister for Justice and Communications, wrote to Mr. Joe Hayes, managing director of Independent Newspapers, a major shareholder in Princes Holdings, on the status of the MMDS franchises. He stated:

You were invited to apply for an exclusive franchise and it is accepted that no further licences for television programme retransmissions, wired broadcast, relay or other rebroadcast or relay within or to your franchise regions will be granted for the duration of your television programme retransmissions licences.

Neither will the Minister during this time permit geographical extensions in any wired broadcast or relay (cable television) licences which now exist in the region.

Immediately MMDS service is available in any of your franchise regions, my Department will apply the full rigours of the law to legal operations affecting the franchise region. My Department will use its best endeavours to ensure that there are no illegal rebroadcasting systems affecting that region within six months after commencement of MMDS transmissions.

He gave this exclusivity and guaranteed it in this way without bothering to survey, identify and exempt areas where it was physically impossible for Princes Holdings to provide any TV service. Why did Mr. Burke give such far reaching private assurances to a private company? Was he influenced by the donation he had received two years earlier? Those written assurances by Mr. Burke to Mr. Hayes tied the State's hand and opened it to huge legal claims if it changed its TV retransmission policy. Did Mr. Burke discuss this letter to Mr. Hayes with the Cabinet at the time, five members of whom, including the Taoiseach and Minister Molloy, sit at the Cabinet table? If it is not possible to extend the remit of existing tribunals, I want a full inquiry into these matters with powers to compel attendance of witnesses either by an appropriate committee of this House or otherwise.

The Taoiseach was Charles Haughey's trusted political lieutenant and Ray Burke, in turn, was the Taoiseach's trusted political lieutenant. At no time in all their long mutual associations did the Taoiseach suspect that there might be anything irregular about Fianna Fáil fundraising, about where the money went, and why. Did it occur to him to ask a question or is it just a matter of rushing now for the high moral ground after the event when it makes no difference as against asking the tough questions at the right time when they might have made a difference?

Did the Deputy check the statement of the former Minister, Deputy Lowry?

Whose is the Deputy's best forever friend?

When Deputy Bertie Ahern was in Opposition, he said to Dáil Éireann in the February 1997 debate on the Dunnes tribunal report that "what matters most is how a political party reacts to knowledge when it becomes available". In light of the new revelations contained in the latest edition of Magill magazine, that political dictum should be echoing in the Taoiseach's mind. Clearly in response to the Taoiseach's dictum, he and his party decided the best reaction was to do nothing.

The Taoiseach must fully satisfy the House and the public on his answers to a series of questions which now centre on two issues vital to his credibility. The first is the nature of the inquiry he undertook, on no less than three separate occasions, into the donation to Mr. Ray Burke from JMSE. We know Mr. Burke's version of events. We also know the Taoiseach felt it necessary to conduct inquiries and even to appoint a Front Bench colleague, Deputy Dermot Ahern, for this purpose. We have been told that Deputy Ahern travelled as far as London to interview relevant witnesses. Yet, apparently all the time the most relevant evidence remained unnoticed on a file in Mount Street. When the Flood tribunal made its order, Fianna Fáil was able to produce three separate documents which it now accepts demolishes the assurance of Mr. Burke's assertion to this House that he had passed on to his party's head office a substantial portion of a donation which he had received in the normal course of events and for purely political purposes from JMSE.

As the Taoiseach said, those records show an official party receipt in the name of Rennicks, the Fitzwilton subsidiary, acknowledging receipt of £10,000; an extract from the cash receipts book showing the Rennicks' contribution; and a compliment slip from Rennicks accompanying the donation and signed by Ray Burke.

Unless there was a substantial number of donations passed on to Fianna Fáil's head office by Mr. Burke during the late 1980s and this particular transaction was lost in the volume of files — a matter which I will pursue — then it was clear from the very start to anyone who did a basic examination of party records that Mr. Burke's story about his involvement with JMSE was untrue.

What sort of inquiry was carried out? Surely at least the Taoiseach could have satisfied himself on the essential truth of the one aspect of Mr. Burke's version of events, which could be proven by records available to the leader of Fianna Fáil, that the party had received a donation, via Mr. Burke, from the source whom he claimed had given it. Yet the party records show this to be untrue.

The Taoiseach said he had looked at the matter "inside out and upside down" on three occasions, when he heard about it in spring 1996, at some stage in 1997 and again after the election. He gave assurances when questioned by the media that he had done his utmost to check the story thoroughly. As reported in The Irish Times of 6 September 1997 in words directly attributed to the Taoiseach, he said:

It was always the same story. It was a big contribution, There is no doubt about that. He did give £10,000 to the party. It was a political contribution. Mr. Burke received it. I know the circumstances about it.

Spokespersons for the Taoiseach have repeated twice in the last two days that he was not aware at the time Mr. Burke made a statement to the Dáil that the £10,000 donation came from Rennicks. Yet no credible inquiry, let alone three "upside down and inside out" inquiries, could have been conducted by him or on his behalf without uncovering that fact.

My colleague and former party leader, Deputy Spring, received an anonymous note last autumn to this effect:

Re: Mr. Ray Burke, TD, Rennicks Signs, members of the Fitzwilton Group.

Prior to the 1989 general election, the Rennicks Company applied to the IDA for substantial grants for the manufacturing of road signs and went to see the then Minister for Industry with responsibility for the IDA, Ray Burke TD, to brief him on their application for IDA financial support. In attendance was Mr. Robin Rennicks, Managing Director; Mr. Paul Power, Director; Mr. Ray McKenna, financial advisor to the Fitzwilton group and Rennicks companies. Having briefed Mr. Burke, Mr. Burke introduced the subject of financial support for himself and his party and bluntly requested £30,000. This caused amazement and embarrassment to the delegation. They requested the opportunity to consider the matter. Mr. Rennicks paid over £30,000 to Ray Burke TD.

The letter went on to make further allegations regarding the Bovale controversy. Deputy Spring met the Taoiseach around this time to discuss his general concerns relating to the then unfolding Burke controversy. He conveyed the contents of this letter to the Taoiseach and said that as the letter was unsigned, he — Deputy Spring — would take no further action on the issue, but would leave it with the Taoiseach. We now know what the Taoiseach did with the information: precisely nothing.

On the basis of what we now know, the Taoiseach's three inquiries smack of a cover up at worst and at best an aversion to uncovering the whole truth. Equally important, however, is the issue of what the Taoiseach did when, to use the phrase in Fianna Fáil's press release last night, he was apprised of the truth. It is important to note that were it not for the Flood Tribunal making an additional and unexpected order for discovery, this matter would not have come into the public domain. The tribunal made its order on 20 February 1998 and Fianna Fáil would have prepared its response in the following days. When the full story became apparent, it must have astonished Fianna Fáil officials, including the party leader. If the story that they had investigated matters fully is to be believed, they must have felt duped. The Taoiseach must also have known that the Dáil had been misled. Why did he not return to the House immediately and apprise it of the facts? This was surely the natural thing to do for a Taoiseach who had been misled by a former party colleague. All Members, particularly those with Government experience, must be aware of the duties they owe. It does not matter if the misleading statement was deliberate or accidental, nor does it matter if a Member was the author or an unwitting partner to its being made. One's obligation is to set the record straight at the earliest opportunity. The Taoiseach chose not to do so. Why?

We are now faced with two scenarios. Either the investigations ordered by the Taoiseach were a sham, or they were successful and subsequently information was concealed from the House.

This debate is bad news for politics because it revives the issue of substantial payments to politicians. It brings all politicians and political parties into disrepute. It is bad news for the Taoiseach because he implicated himself in a most unique investigation into a colleague whose appointment to Cabinet he wanted to facilitate. In doing so, the Taoiseach gave him a clean bill of health, appointed him to Government and accused Members who brought up the JMSE donation of hounding an honourable man from office in a vendetta. It is bad news for the Tánaiste, who was so full in her praise of Mr. Burke's position that not even Fianna Fáil backbenchers expressed similar words. It is bad news for the relationship between the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste. The Tánaiste is quoted in The Irish Times as saying: “I have total faith in the judgment of the Taoiseach in relation to the Fianna Fáil members of the Cabinet.” It is bad news for Deputy Dermot Ahern after his Inspector Clouseau-like performance in London. I hope he never loses his job because he would not get a job as a private investigator.

The Deputy is losing his party.

I always knew there was a purpose in appointing Dr. Woods to Cabinet.

(Interruptions.)

This is bad news for politics because it reopens the Haughey era. The extraordinary events triggered by the Sam Smyth scoop, which led unexpectedly to blowing the lid off the Haughey era, are now being debated again here. For young people in particular, given Mr. Haughey's standing as a former Taoiseach, this must be a turnoff when it comes to politics. The Taoiseach has done an excellent job until now in protecting Fianna Fáil to the extent that many people must now be convinced that the present Taoiseach cannot remember Mr. Haughey's name.

However, this is still bad news for the Taoiseach. Despite his best efforts, he has failed to ringfence the fallout from the Haughey case. It has now reached into the heart of his own Cabinet, deprived him of his most senior Minister, raised profound questions about his judgment and raised serious questions about credibility, when he was told by Fianna Fáil headquarters about the £10,000 from Fitzwilton. Why did he tell journalists on 5 September in relation to the Gogarty or JMSE money that: "He did give £10,000 to the party"? Surely if the Taoiseach did not know that that money was Fitzwilton money, Fianna Fáil headquarters would have put him right quickly, long before he sat beside then Deputy Burke while the latter misleadingly led the House to believe the £10,000 he was referring to was JMSE money? The Taoiseach acquiesced all that time.

This is bad news for the Tánaiste, because after Mr. Burke's performance she told journalists: "I thought it was a very strong statement. I think it answered all the queries raised in the last number of weeks in various articles in the media." That was the Tánaiste's summation. It is a claim that even Mr. Burke, incidentally, would not make for himself. It appears that power doth make cowards of us all. I do not think the Tánaiste can ever be as trusting in her relationship with the Taoiseach again. Does she know if these are the only donations received by Mr. Burke? Does the Taoiseach know?

This is especially bad news for Deputy Dermot Ahern.

Wishful thinking.

The Taoiseach turned to the best and brightest available to him, and Deputy Dermot Ahern lent his credibility willingly to a see-through manoeuvre to facilitate the inclusion of Mr. Burke in Cabinet. He must now live with the glowing testimonials that he so eagerly gave at the time.

The Deputy is barking up the wrong tree. He should wait for the tribunal.

I also received the document read out by Deputy Quinn. I made inquiries regarding the allegations that the company was looking for IDA grants and was told that there was no basis to them. I accepted that, but it is an entirely different construction now. I did not know that Deputy Spring had brought this to the attention of the Taoiseach in order for him to act. It is now clear that nothing was done, and only for the tribunal this would not have emerged. It took the Opposition to include a special term of reference for the tribunal to investigate matters other than JMSE and general planning issues. We would never have known about this otherwise.

The Magill article deals with £1.3 million being paid out in grants to this company, and it is suggested that those grants were entirely legitimate. This puts an entirely different construction on what Deputy Quinn said.

When huge donations like this are transferred to politicians most people ask cui bono? Who benefits and profits from it? Does it support democracy or are there other reasons for it? We are assured that Tony O'Reilly knew nothing of this £30,000 donation. However, as Minister for Communications — as Deputy John Bruton said, a portfolio Mr. Burke insisted on taking with him — Mr. Burke would have been well aware through Dr. O'Reilly of the connections of the Rennicks subsidiary to Princes Holdings, to whom he granted 19 of the 29 licences awarded from the MMDS system.

I wish to quote some of the paragraphs excised from the Magill article, presumably on the basis of legal advice:

One of Mr. O'Reilly's interests concerns the television transmission system, MMDS. That was the source of considerable controversy in the lead up and the aftermath of the general election of June 1997. Mr. Burke was linked to that controversy.

In 1988 Mr. Burke, then Minister for Communications, issued licences for the operation of a television transmission system, Multi Micropoint Distribution System, MMDS. Of the 29 licences awarded, 19 were awarded to Princes Holdings, a company associated with Independent Newspapers plc, which is controlled by Mr. O'Reilly.

The then Minister for Justice and Communications, Mr. Burke, wrote to Joe Hayes, managing director of Independent Newspapers:

You were invited to apply for exclusive franchises and it is accepted that no further licences for television programme retransmissions, wired broadcast, relay or other rebroadcast or relay within or to your franchise regions will be granted for the duration of your television programme retransmission licences.

Neither will the Minister, during this time, permit geographical extensions to any wired broadcast relay, cable television, licences which now exist in the region.

The undertaking given in my letter of 28 May 1990 to the Irish Cable Operators Association applies to your company. Immediately MMDS service is available in any of your franchise regions, my Department will apply the full rigours of the law to illegal operations affecting that franchise region. My department will use its best endeavours to ensure that there are no illegal rebroadcasting systems affecting that region within commencement of MMDS transmission.

These paragraphs were excised but it is important that we know who drafted the letter. Given its nature and contents, we need to know if it had been approved by the Attorney General before it issued.

The investigation requested by Deputy John Bruton, perhaps initially carried out by a committee of this House, is necessary. The statements in Magill in terms of Dr. Tony O'Reilly may be correct. However, if the lid continues to come off the Haughey era and if members of Fianna Fáil who were not complicit in any way are branded like the rest of us and the ranking of politicians debased, we have to clear the matter up once and for all.

There was never any clarity about the extraordinary incident a long time ago when the then Minister, Mr. Martin O'Donoghue, offered Ray MacSharry a very large sum of money to shift his allegiance from Mr. Haughey. It seems remarkable that the source of that money was never established. It assuredly did not come from a Trinity don, which is an unusual vehicle to make such an offer. Perhaps this investigation may discover where that money came from and its purpose in politics.

At the time of the general election, we experienced the influence of Independent Newspapers plc. which is dominant in the newspaper market. It has a 30 per cent shareholding in The Sunday Tribune and effectively controls it financially, as well as ten provincial newspapers. Few people in politics will forget the impact of the front page editorial in the Irish Independent the day before the general election headed “It Is Now Payback Time”. We have been assured that people like Tony O'Reilly do not influence editorial decisions of the paper control. Anyone looking at this morning's treatment of the story in the Irish Independent——

The Deputy's time is up.

Payback is the operative word.

This morning's Irish Independent glances over a story the other broadsheets decided ought to be the lead story. It may be that there is no editorial interference but it seems extraordinary that it received such treatment. That raises serious questions that if other newspapers felt it was front page material to analyse the public policy implications of this, that ought to apply.

That is hyperbole.

That is sour grapes from the Minister.

We can see from where they are coming.

The Minister's investigative skills and credibility are in serious question as a result of this.

I agree with Deputy Rabbitte that it is not a good day for politics in this House. I say with some sadness that it is not a good day for the Taoiseach.

That is what the Deputy would say.

The Taoiseach's speech is as carefully crafted a response to the issues raised as were the replies of the former Minister, Mr. Burke, to questions put to him in this House on 10 September 1997. The Taoiseach treaded carefully through a political minefield and was economical with the truth. I do not say that with pleasure. Following events in this House on 10 September 1997, Mr. Burke said a line was being drawn in the sand. Today's events show that this Government is standing midriff in political quicksand.

The Taoiseach emphasised the need for ensuring full clarity. I wish to deal with the Taoiseach's speech and take matters further from where we stand in the debate at this moment. The Taoiseach referred to Fianna Fáil as having, in a sense, some merit:

At no stage prior to the delivery of the affidavit of discovery had the tribunal ever asked any questions of Fianna Fáil in relation to Rennicks, the Fitzwilton subsidiary.

As if it is praiseworthy he went on to say:

It was the Fianna Fáil Party which volunteered and disclosed through the discovery process documentation in relation to Rennicks.

The order of discovery was made on 20 February 1998. What is not known in this House is that the anonymous letter received by the Leader of the Labour Party, Deputy Quinn and Deputy De Rossa which has been read into the record of this House, was also received by the Fine Gael party last September. It was sent anonymously and there was no means of confirming its veracity. No Member of this party wanted to make wild allegations that could not be substantiated.

In a public hearing which took place before the planning tribunal at the beginning of February, Mr. Justice Flood commented on anonymous correspondence he received. At that stage it was determined that bearing in mind that the tribunal was the recipient of anonymous correspondence, it was in the interests of ensuring the tribunal was able to fully carry out its work that Deputy John Bruton referred the anonymous letter about Rennicks to the tribunal.

Over two weeks after the tribunal received that letter, the order for discovery was made in respect of documentation held by the Fianna Fáil party. There is a clear and absolute nexus to the events which occurred. It is obvious that first, the investigation conducted by the Minister, Deputy Dermot Ahern, when Chief Whip of the Fianna Fáil party before the formation of the present Government, was little short of a charade. I disagree with Deputy Rabbitte on one issue — Deputy Dermot Ahern's investigation does not make him the Inspector Clouseau of Irish politics but the Mr. Magoo of Irish politics. He took the plane to England when all he had to do was walk down the road to Mount Street and ask his own general secretary to check the books. At that stage the information was readily and clearly accessible, but a mock investigation took place which did not produce the information which resulted from the order of discovery. Serious questions must be asked as to why that is so.

On 5 September 1997 the Irish Independent carried a story shortly before the Dáil debate in which Ray Burke made a statement and answered questions. In the story the issue arose of the payment made by Deputy Burke from the Gogarty moneys, or JMSE, to Fianna Fáil. The article stated:

Last night the Fianna Fáil general secretary, Pat Farrell, confirmed to the Irish Independent that £10,000 of the £30,000 had been handed over to party headquarters during the course of the June 1989 general election. The precise date could be furnished when the Fianna Fáil financial controller returned from holidays.

The £30,000 was not an anonymous sum — it was from the money paid by Mr. Gogarty. I presume the Fianna Fáil financial controller was not on holidays from 5 September 1997 until 20 February 1998. Mr. Farrell stated that Mr. Burke had passed on the contribution himself.

It is clear that the presentation of this issue by Fianna Fáil under the leadership of the Taoiseach was that Mr. Burke received £30,000 from Mr. Gogarty, £10,000 of which was paid to Fianna Fáil headquarters. The Taoiseach again referred to this issue in the debate which took place on the resignation of Mr. Burke, saying that "accepting an unsolicited gift of £30,000 of which less than half was retained for his personal campaign was certainly imprudent, but a few weeks ago in the House almost no one considered it a hanging offence". What the Taoiseach has not told us in his carefully crafted speech is whether he asked the general secretary of Fianna Fáil if the £10,000 received by the party was from JMSE. He stated that up to the period shortly before the affidavit of discovery was sworn on 1 April he had been "given to understand that the £10,000 received by Fianna Fáil from Ray Burke in 1989 was drawn from a contribution he had received from Joseph Murphy Structural Engineering". Who gave him to understand that? Was it Fianna Fáil's general secretary, its financial controller, Ray Burke or Deputy Dermot Ahern, who Magoo-like tottered around in political darkness trying to ascertain what on earth was going on? The Taoiseach stated it was reasonable to presume that the money came from this source and that "the reasons for this belief was because our inquiries last summer and last autumn had concentrated on establishing, following media allegations, if Ray Burke had received a large donation in 1989 from JMSE or people associated with it; if so, were there any special reasons; and if, as claimed, Fianna Fáil had received a £10,000 draft from Ray Burke".

The Taoiseach referred to the draft as if the inquiry last September concerned whether Ray Burke had at some stage in 1989 paid a sum of £10,000 to Fianna Fáil. However, the inquiry was to discover whether the draft had been paid out of JMSE moneys. Is the Taoiseach saying he failed to ask that question and that he lacked the competence to request his party's general secretary to investigate that issue? Why is it that within two or three weeks, or less, after Deputy Bruton referred the Rennicks letter to the tribunal and the tribunal sought an order of discovery, Fianna Fáil was able to produce three different sets of documentary evidence to show that the £10,000 received never derived from JMSE but rather from Rennicks? Why was there such confusion? Why did it take an order of discovery from the tribunal for it to become clear that the JMSE moneys were retained by Ray Burke and that the £10,000 paid to Fianna Fáil was one third of the money from Rennicks Manufacturing? Either there was a cover-up or a sham series of investigations with public assumptions to protect Fianna Fáil. That is simply not good enough. It goes to the core of the credibility of the Taoiseach and the Government. It undermines the credibility of Deputy Dermot Ahern in the context of public utterances he will make on a variety of issues in the future——

But not so far on this issue. The statement is with the tribunal and the Deputy does not know what it contains.

——and the credibility of any statement made by him on this issue in the past. This is the responsibility of the Deputy.

On this issue the Taoiseach has exhibited either incompetence or has been extraordinarily economical with the truth. He supported the view in the House that Deputy Burke had paid the £10,000 from JMSE to Fianna Fáil. The Taoiseach had an obligation to the House, following the information becoming available to him, to put the record straight but failed to do so. In his speech he refers to the fact that it would have been better if Ray Burke had told us about these other moneys when addressing the House last September. In September I asked Ray Burke to inform the House of moneys he had received in addition to those from JMSE. He said, "as far as other funding is concerned, I am here to answer questions in respect of a donation of £30,000. I never received a larger contribution but I have no intention of dealing with other subscriptions I received before or since the period under discussion". Mr. Burke remained in office for four weeks after drawing the line in the sand, having refused to disclose to the House the nature of any other contributions received by him. At that time Fianna Fáil headquarters knew of the Rennicks contribution and the Taoiseach stood over Mr. Burke's refusal to reveal to the House the additional and extraordinarily coincidental contribution of £30,000.

The Taoiseach has serious questions to answer which have not been answered and which cannot be answered in full by the tribunal under Mr. Justice Flood who is confined to considering payments by JMSE and planning issues. All Mr. Justice Flood can conclude in relation to this payment is that the £10,000 paid to Fianna Fáil did not derive from JMSE but from Rennicks. The tribunal cannot say why the payment was made or why Fianna Fáil dealt with it in the manner in which it did.

What action, if any, did the Taoiseach take after he was apprised of the contents of the anonymous note of last autumn, which I placed on the record of the House? Why, when he was apprised in March 1998 on foot of the discovery of documentation for the Flood tribunal, did he not take the opportunity to come before the House and set the record straight, knowing that he had, perhaps inadvertently, misled the House on the basis of the information he received?

Last Friday was a hugely historic day for our country. It was a good day to be Irish and a good day to be in politics. It appeared that politicians had redeemed themselves. After years of scandals and tribunals in which the profession of politics was seriously tarnished politicians had made a huge effort to negotiate peace for our island. However, only 56 per cent of the electorate in the Republic voted. Why? The answer is that for many people politics is irrelevant, dirty and corrupt. As far as they are concerned, Dáil Éireann is a type of cesspit and they hold politicians in contempt. They see the revelations in Magill as “business as usual”.

Politicians often have a tendency to blame the messenger. They believe it is the fault of the media that they are held in such low esteem because the media concentrate on the negative aspects of politics. I reject that interpretation. The only people who can clean up politics are politicians and we can do that quickly by making a clean breast of these matters. Each party should declare fully and openly where it gets its money. If that is not done, the scandals and suspicions of corruption will continue and politicians will continue to be the losers.

My party is prepared to open its books and declare where we get every penny of our funding. Other parties should do the same. However, will they do it? I doubt it. What we have here is a charade and the Taoiseach and the Government are aware of that. The Opposition pots are calling the Government kettle black. If Fitzwilton gave money to other political parties, the parties should declare it today. If they admit it, they will probably repeat the political mantra of the 1990s that no favours were sought or given. This is nonsense. While money from big business is lubricating the wheels of politics, the engine of democracy is grinding to a halt.

The so-called "main" parties are culpable. The definition of a main party is no longer determined in terms of size — I have always argued the Green Party is equal in size to some of the smaller parties in the House — but in terms of where they get their money. All parties, including the smaller parties, appear to be getting money from the banks. The Taoiseach referred to this in his speech in the context of establishing rules and guidelines.

A few months ago significant changes were made to the Electoral Act. They were agreed by the so-called main parties and were passed by the Oireachtas without a murmur from the media. The changes are particularly significant in the case of Mr. Burke. They related to donations from the party to an individual in the party and to moneys given to an individual which were subsequently given to the party. The only Members who spoke out against these changes were the Green Party Deputies and Deputy Joe Higgins.

The changes to that legislation permit the type of occurrence we are now discussing. It is now possible for an individual to get money from a company and pass it to the party without having to declare it. That is wrong and the House made a fundamental error when it agreed to that change.

That is not the case.

No, it is true. The party can subsequently help that individual in certain ways. It is a means of politically laundering money.

On 10 September last year, I asked Mr. Burke why the donation was made in cash. He said I would have to put that question to Mr. Gogarty. I am not in a position to so do. However, can the Taoiseach say if it is standard practice that companies making large contributions normally make the cheques out to cash? Does he now unequivocally condemn the actions of Mr. Burke?

The Taoiseach told the House last year that it had hounded an honourable man from office. Does he still consider Mr. Burke to be an honourable man? Does the Tánaiste still have total faith in Mr. Burke? Will the Progressive Democrats stand by and allow this type of behaviour to continue? They are also somewhat compromised, however, by the documents which were found in the skip. The Progressive Democrats lack credibility in this area.

The House has been misled. The Taoiseach led us to believe that the £10,000 came from JMSE and this mistruth was continued. The document read by Deputy Quinn is devastating. Why did the Taoiseach not act on the information from Deputy Spring? We have been told that Mr. O'Reilly knew nothing about the £30,000. However, he certainly benefited from the actions of Mr. Burke.

Clearly, the symbiotic relationship between big business and politics continues to exist and to arouse suspicions. The only way the Taoiseach can allay them is by opening up the system. We might be opening a can of worms but it would be a cathartic experience by which we could cleanse politics once and for all. If that is not done, the real losers will be politicians and the profession of politics.

As Deputy Rabbitte said, Mr. Haughey might be gone but the Haugheyites live on and are thriving in Government. I watched the Taoiseach being interviewed on the "Late Late Show" recently. He appeared to row back from his previous position on this issue. His attitude appeared to be that Charles Haughey was not such a bad guy after all. When people bring politics into disrepute they should be condemned unequivocally.

What about Roger?

If one does not do that, one aligns oneself with these people.

Is the Deputy taking over Deputy Roche's job as heckler? We saw what happened to him.

The worst effect is that there will be tribunal after tribunal. Millions of pounds will be spent in an effort to flush people out and at the end of the day will anybody be punished or sent to jail as a consequence? If that does not happen, politics will be brought further into disrepute.

That is a matter for the courts. We do not decide it here.

Fortunately.

We do not decide it but I am making the point, with which I hope the Minister will agree, that if it is not done, the public will become tremendously cynical about the profession of politics. There will be lower election turnouts than ever. We must make an effort and have stricter controls on contributions to political parties. All contributions should be revealed. Why not have complete openness and transparency? What have we to fear? Perhaps people fear the connection that obviously exists between contributions from big business and the actions of politicians.

I hope there will be no more revelations over the coming years because if there are, there will be the lowest turnout ever at the next election.

(Dublin West): A Minister or any politician who receives £30,000 from a developer or an agent of big business is, by virtue of that, seriously compromised regardless of the context of that donation. This issue is larger than one individual, the former Minister, Mr. Burke. It goes to the heart of our political system and of the political establishment that dominates that system. It has long been suspected that a golden circle of big businesses, leading politicians and political parties exists in the State and that suspicion was proven by revelations culminating in a series of tribunals. However, we still do not know the extent of the golden circle and, as yesterday's revelations show, we still do not know what remains hidden.

The principal of the company at the centre of this controversy, Mr. O'Reilly, through Independent Newspapers and Fitzwilton, wields enormous power in the State and beyond. Independent Newspapers made £100 million profit last year. Ownership of five national newspapers and ten regional papers in this small State gives that one individual and his company massive power, not to mention the fact that his tentacles stretch right across the globe in terms of controlling important sections of the mass media in a number of countries, even Australia.

As reported in an article in Magill, over the years Fitzwilton plc has made contributions to all the main political parties through their representatives. The difference between an individual politician and a party getting a large donation is only a difference of degree. Despite the fact that leading politicians have been at pains to create a chasm between the two types of donation, in reality it is all part of the one scenario.

In 1989 £30,000 was equal to the average annual income of three ordinary workers and £60,000 was equal to the average annual income of six workers. The ordinary people do not believe these large donations are given as a demonstration of the generosity of the corporations giving them or because of their alleged concern for the democratic system. Since corporations and developers are mean in practically every aspect of their business lives, why should their hearts suddenly melt on the doorsteps of politicians and political parties where they are apparently consumed by overweaning generosity?

Big businesses and developers who give large donations expect rewards in return, whether they are outlined at the time or in an unspoken understanding that will materialise later in, for example, a Finance Bill at budget time or in drastic cuts in corporation or capital gains tax under various guises.

The relationship between developers, business and the former Minister, Ray Burke, was rotten to the core. A political system which is paid large contributions by big business and, for which, in return, the businesses receive favourable consideration from Governments — even if it is done legally — is corrupt. That type of corruption has been oozing from the pores of the political system in this State for many decades and it is evident in all our industries. The banks have donated handsomely to political parties over the years and were treated accordingly in various budgets and Finance Bills. Developers and builders have made massive contributions to political parties and have also been handsomely rewarded.

Earlier speakers called for transparency. I call on all the political parties to outline before this debate concludes whether, since 1980, they received funds from Fitzwilton or any of its subsidiaries or related companies, how many donations they received and how much money was involved. Since Fitzwilton claims it contributed across the board, the parties should state whether they have been at the end of its generosity. If they are not prepared to give the information, they should state why. Failure to give the information will allow the public to again draw the conclusion that this is not a serious debate, that the political establishment is involved in another exercise of shadow boxing and covering up the mechanics by which the system works.

I thank those who contributed to the debate and commend them for the spirit in which they asked questions. I have never concealed information or been economical with the truth. I ask my colleagues to accept that. It is simply not in my nature to do that, and certainly not on this issue.

Members asked about the inquiry I asked Deputy Ahern to carry out. Before the appointment of the Government, allegations surfaced from many places that the then Deputy Burke had received money. I tried to find out the truth, but got nowhere. I did not go around as an investigator, I simply tried to follow up inquiries that had been made, but people would not give me any information. I asked Deputy Dermot Ahern to carry out an investigation and we tried to cross check information we had picked up. We tried to contact Mr. Joe Murphy, the principal in JMSE. Deputy Ahern travelled to London at my request to conduct an interview with that gentleman. He tried to examine the array of allegations that were made about Ray Burke, whether he had received a donation from JMSE or others and the amount involved. It was not illegal in 1989 to receive a donation. We were simply trying to find out if one had been given and, more importantly, if there was any substance to the allegations being made by Mr. Gogarty. That was Deputy Ahern's specific task. He has submitted his report to the tribunal and it will be public knowledge in due course. He told me that Mr. Murphy denied donating any money. On the day I appointed the then Deputy Burke as Minister I was working on the understanding that no money had been given to him. I asked Deputy Ahern to do a job and he did it to the best of his ability.

Did Mr. Murphy tell Deputy Ahern he had not given him any money?

Precisely. That was two days before the Cabinet was formed. I sent Deputy Ahern to London because of the rumours going around, and that was the result. Of course, we subsequently found out that was not the case.

Deputy Quinn asked two questions. I recollect only two conversations with Deputy Spring. The first took place in Washington at the Ireland Fund dinner, where we certainly did not discuss that issue and the second took place where Deputy Gormley is sitting now. Following Deputy Spring's resignation I spoke to him briefly during a vote in the House and he asked me to assist in concluding an arrangement relating to a staff member. He may have mentioned it to me on that night but I have no recollection of it. I recollect receiving a number of anonymous letters and notes, though not many, regarding the former Deputy, Mr. Burke. Our party headquarters gave at least one of these to the tribunal. Without checking, I am not sure if it was the same letter but if Deputy Spring said he mentioned that and referred it to me, I accept that. I accept that is what Deputy Spring said but I do not have any particular recollection. If I did, I am sure I would have said so because many others have asked me if I got any notes. I got more than one or two, unfortunately, but, no more than anyone else, I could not substantiate them.

Deputy Quinn asked when this was brought to my attention. I was told in early February that we would receive orders from the tribunal with which we would have to comply. We had a number of new staff and had started going through all our records at headquarters, not just on this issue but on others because I was anxious to update and improve our system. We have all our records, thankfully, and we were going through the records and putting things in place. Later on this was discussed with the staff at headquarters. In the last week or ten days of March, certainly after St. Patrick's Day, the staff informed me that in checking — they checked a number of things, it was not the only thing — they had found that the £10,000 had nothing to do with JMSE. In their view it concerned a company called Rennicks and they tracked this in the documents I have mentioned.

I am not saying that the first check was in any way thorough. The first check last year was whether Ray Burke gave the party £10,000. That was the only issue we were really concerned with at that stage and the answer to the question was yes. When they started doing more detailed checks they found that it was not from JMSE; they believed it was from Rennicks. I asked the officials to check this out and said we would have to report it to the tribunal immediately. I thought that was the proper procedure; to give it to the tribunal because the Dáil had given the tribunal powers to follow this up. I thought I should disclose it. Perhaps I should also have given it to the Dáil. I am not going to argue about that. Perhaps that would have been a good idea but I did not do that; I gave it to the tribunal.

I also told the officials they should inform the company that we were disclosing this. One of the officials contacted Mr. Robin Rennicks, on my behalf, to tell him of this. Mr. Rennicks was in the Far East and we had difficulty finding him. A Mr. David Byrne, on behalf of the company, made contact to say that they had given no money at all, under any circumstances, and that this was not correct. Some time later, Mr. Rennicks confirmed that it was the case. We went ahead and gave the data to the tribunal. That is the position. I asked the general secretary, when he made the statement, if we got the £10,000. That was it. There was no intrigue. I was not checking anything else. Maybe I should have gone through the books. I would say to Deputy Shatter that at least we have books to go through.

Hear, hear.

However, I did not do it; I did not check it. I only wanted to know if Mr. Burke had given the party £10,000. I was not really interested in anything else, but I was when we were dealing with the other information. Maybe I should have been interested in all these things——

The Taoiseach should have been.

——but the fact is that I was only trying to check that out. I am not going to blame any official. I asked a question and I received an answer. Later, as soon as I got all the details, I gave them to the tribunal.

I note what Members are saying about these matters but I do not know if there are specific allegations arising from what Deputies Rabbitte and Bruton have said. We already have two tribunals and if there is some way of including any of these issues within their terms of reference, these allegations could be looked at, or the matter could be referred to by a committee of the House. In either event it would be subject to the normal process and legal advice. I have no difficulty with either option but analysing the best way of doing that is a matter for another day.

When I received the anonymous allegations in regard to Rennicks Signs back in September, we inquired whether any IDA grant had been paid to Rennicks Signs. We discovered that no such grant had been paid, which was one of the reasons for taking the view that this allegation was not sufficiently substantial to go public with at that stage.

Does the Taoiseach know whether a grant was actually paid or sought by the Rennicks company from the IDA while Mr. Burke was Minister for Industry and Commerce? Did Mr. Burke, as Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications, discuss with the Taoiseach, with the Fianna Fáil Cabinet or the Fianna Fáil-Progressive Democrats Cabinet, his decision to give an exclusive licence for the MMDS system to one company, which happens to have an owner in common with Fitzwilton? Was that discussed with the Cabinet? Equally, was the further letter about that matter of 1991 discussed either with the Cabinet or with Fianna Fáil Ministers?

Does the Taoiseach agree that there is prima facie evidence requiring an investigation into the possible motives for the payment by Fitzwilton to Mr. Burke? Does the Taoiseach agree that the motives for that payment ought to be investigated? If he does so agree, does he further agree that the existing tribunals cannot do that within their existing terms of reference and that the Attorney General has advised it is not possible to change their terms of reference? The Taoiseach has been loud in the House in repeating that advice. If that is the case, and if the Taoiseach agrees that the motives for this payment by Fitzwilton to Mr. Burke ought to be investigated, how does he propose to investigate it? Does he agree that we must make a decision on that quickly? Does he agree that a committee of the House ought to have the power to compel witnesses to appear on that matter? Has he checked whether any members of the existing Cabinet have received any money of a personal kind from Fitzwilton or associated companies?

On the first point, I have no information on the Rennicks' IDA grant. I will have to check that. I do not believe it received a grant but I would like to have that confirmed before I put it on the record of the House.

As regards the Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications, I understand from having checked today that an aide memoire was brought in the normal way to Cabinet setting out the fact that there would be competitive arrangements. Subsequently, I do not believe anything more was discussed at Cabinet. I have no information regarding the letter of 1991 or of those issues having been discussed. Neither have I any knowledge of any Ministers being involved in any of those discussions. The normal practice would have been that once the aide memoire was passed the system was set up and it would have been a matter for the Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications. I have asked through the Minister to have the records, files and aide memoires checked within the Department. There has been some delay, however, because these files and records were removed to the Office of the Director of Telecommunications Regulation and they have only now been returned. They are being checked by the civil servants within the Department to see if they contain anything of concern.

As regards my Cabinet colleagues, I checked last year and none of them received financial aid from Fitzwilton or any other subsidiaries. I have not checked in the recent past because any money they now receive must be declared under the new law so it would be public knowledge.

I can understand how someone could say there are motives behind such payments in the same way they said there was a motive related to planning behind the £30,000 payment. If there is something to investigate, it should be brought within the terms of the inquiries. Deputy John Bruton was correct when he said that it cannot be investigated by the current tribunals because the Flood tribunal is only dealing with planning issues, and this is not such an issue, and the Moriarty tribunal is investigating other individuals and is not directly related to this. If the House believes these are matters of substance, I would prefer if they were dealt with by the tribunals. I discussed that matter today with the Attorney General who discussed it with some of his staff. We have not come to a conclusion yet because we want to know if there is just a possibility of a motive or if there is something of substance to investigate.

I can understand how people could say that Cabinet members are involved. However, my investigations show that no member of the Cabinet is involved in these matters.

Why is it only in the last 24 hours that the Taoiseach started inquiries in the Department of Public Enterprise about the allocation of MMDS licences? Surely as soon as he heard last March that Mr. Burke had received a donation of £30,000 from Fitzwilton, which has a common ownership with Princes Holdings, he would have recognised that there could have been a conflict of interest in Mr. Burke's case? Why is it only today that he has started to investigate it? Did it not occur to him to make such an investigation when, by his own admission, he heard about this matter last March and knew then that £30,000 had been paid by Fitzwilton to Mr. Burke?

Does the Taoiseach not agree that alarm bells should have been set off in his mind when he thought back to the controversy concerning the MMDS issue and the fact that the communications brief was treated as a personal fiefdom for Mr. Burke by Mr. Haughey? Did the Taoiseach not think there was something strange about that? Why is it only today that he has apparently contacted the Director of Telecommunications Regulation? Is it not possible that people might say the Taoiseach is only making these inquiries now because the issue has become public and that as long as no one knew that any money had been paid to Mr. Burke by Fitzwilton, the Taoiseach would not have made any inquiries? It is only because the matter was brought to light in Magill today that he is making these inquiries.

That matter was on my mind. As soon as it was brought to my attention I said it must be made known to the tribunal. If the tribunal wanted to change or extend its terms of reference or to make recommendations, it would have asked to do so. It is not for me to carry out the tribunal's work. The tribunal has asked us in Fianna Fáil a number of times to look at this aspect. I do not want to do the tribunal's work. I have asked the officials in the Department of Public Enterprise if there is something in this which requires us to ask the tribunal to investigate it under its terms of reference. The chairman of the tribunal can make a request to change the terms of reference. That was the only motivation and it is the job the tribunal is carrying out.

Is it not obvious from a reading of the planning tribunal's terms of reference that it cannot investigate the Princes Holdings and MMDS allocations? It is obvious that these matters are outside its terms of reference and the Taoiseach knew that in March. What has he been wasting his time doing?

The tribunal has been through, in the most detailed manner, all the financial records of former Deputy, Mr. Ray Burke. It is commonly known that it has cross-checked everything. I am sure this information, which came to its attention in March, will assist it in its work. A number of senior counsels and a large staff are working on these matters. If it thought it required an extension or an amendment of its terms of reference, it would have requested that. If it felt this payment was outside its brief, it would not have paid such great attention to it and asked two senior counsels to follow it up.

The Taoiseach stated that he spoke to Mr. Burke and then he asked the Minister for Social, Community and Family Affairs, Deputy Dermot Ahern, to conduct an inquiry. Did he specifically ask Mr. Ray Burke if he had received money from JMSE/Murphy — I am equating the two for the purpose of the debate — and, if so, what was his reply? I accept what the Taoiseach said in relation to what Mr. Murphy said in London to the Minister, Deputy Dermot Ahern. However, what action did the Taoiseach take when Mr. Ray Burke said in the House that he had received money from JMSE/Murphy? He appeared to support that position prior to Mr. Ray Burke's final resignation. Was there not a conflict in the Taoiseach's mind at that stage between the report the Minister, Deputy Dermot Ahern, had produced and what Mr. Burke said?

I accept the Taoiseach has no recollection of the information conveyed to him by Deputy Spring in relation to the contents of the anonymous letter. Given that Fine Gael, Democratic Left and the Labour Party got a copy of what was an anonymous letter — all of us in politics receive such letters — and in light of the specific rumours surrounding Mr. Burke, of which this was another, and the fact the Taoiseach was investigating other rumours, did the Taoiseach receive such a letter, or specifically that letter, or hear any rumours associated with Mr. Ray Burke and Rennicks and, if so, did he act upon it?

My discussions with Ray Burke at any time before his appointment as Minister were on the basis that he had done nothing wrong. I do not recall if I particularly asked about any individual company. If I asked whether there was any wrongdoing involved in connection with any donations he had received, Ray Burke would have said he did receive donations.

The Taoiseach sent Deputy Dermot Ahern to London to check whether Mr. Murphy gave him money. The word came back that he did not.

The word that came back at that stage was no. In the days leading up to the formation of the Cabinet, Ray Burke informed me that there was no problem about any money he received in his constituency.

Yet the Taoiseach sent Deputy Dermot Ahern——

Please, Deputy Howlin, allow the Taoiseach to reply.

I asked about that specific allegation and he defended himself.

Did the Taoiseach tell him it would be helpful if he got all the facts.

I am trying to answer the Deputy. In terms of Rennicks we received a number of anonymous letters. I would have studied those letters. I cannot remember but we gave one to the tribunal. Any letter I received was after Ray Burke left the House. I think I may have got one before he left this House which came to nothing, in so far as I could check it. In fact it was impossible for Ray Burke to be involved in it and, when I had them checked, I found that some of the names in the letters did not exist. I had taken some trouble to do that while he was here. A letter from Rennicks was not one of those I was pursuing.

At the Taoiseach's request, Deputy Dermot Ahern went to London to ask a specific question of Mr. Murphy — if he had given money.

The answer he got was no.

Did the Taoiseach specifically ask Ray Burke, before Deputy Dermot Ahern went to London, if he got money from Murphys?

No, I did not. I was checking this one case. I had asked Ray Burke if he had received donations and if there was anything wrong. Ray Burke made it clear that any money he got was by way of donations to his constituency and there was no wrongdoing whatsoever involved.

Why did the Taoiseach consider it necessary to send Deputy Dermot Ahern to London to ask a specific question of a possible donor without asking the real live recipient? The allegation against Ray Burke was that Murphys had given him money but the Taoiseach chose specifically not to ask Ray Burke about a rumour which he felt was sufficiently important to send Deputy Dermot Ahern to make inquiries.

At the time I did not know and in actual fact there was some confusion even after about who paid the £30,000 to Ray Burke. The question was whether it was Mr. Bailey or JMSE.

A Deputy

That was a report in The Sunday Tribune.

Even after these events unfolded there was some confusion in Mr. Burke's mind — when we knew the whole story — as to who precisely gave him the money. It was given by Mr. Gogarty but I am not sure on behalf of whom. That was the issue I was trying to find out. Ray Burke had said he had received donations. I was trying to find out if this was one of them and in terms of all I understood——

To avoid misunderstanding, and I do not in any way wish to wrongfoot the Taoiseach, Deputy Dermot Ahern investigated rumours surrounding contributions to Ray Burke. This was sufficiently important for the Taoiseach to be concerned before the Government was formed on 26 June. Deputy Dermot Ahern went to London and asked a specific question of a specific person in relation to Ray Burke. Am I correct in understanding that at no stage prior to the formation of the Government on 26 June the Taoiseach asked the same question of Ray Burke which Deputy Dermot Ahern asked of Mr. Murphy?

I had asked about the overall contributions and if there was anything wrong but I continued to be concerned because of reports I was receiving about this one big donation and what was behind it.

But the Taoiseach never asked Ray Burke.

I cannot recall if I asked him if he received money from Murphys or JMSE. I was more worried as to what that was all about. In terms of any discussion I would have had with him, he did not tell me about that contribution.

When Mr. Murphy categorically said to Deputy Dermot Ahern in London that he had not given the money, can I presume he also was speaking on behalf of JMSE, which is a subsidiary, and being the principal, he would have been informed? Consequently when Ray Burke stated he had received money in this House from JMSE did the Taoiseach consider there was a conflict in the information he had received and what Ray Burke was putting on the record?

Ray Burke told me the story before he came into this House to make the statement. The fact was I then knew that Ray Burke had received a contribution of £30,000.

Which was denied by Mr. Murphy.

It was denied before the Government was formed. This matter was dealt with in the House in September.

I do not know whether this is the purpose of the exercise but the Taoiseach has confused me.

Ask again.

The Taoiseach told the House — and he gave a number of interviews outside during this controversy through the summer of that year — that he had conducted a rigorous and thorough investigation and he was satisfied about the appropriateness of Ray Burke for appointment to a senior Cabinet post. Is he seriously telling Deputy Quinn that, while he dispatched someone to London to ask the donor if he gave the money, he did not ask his colleague if he had received it? If he did not receive it, what was the point in sending someone to London to find out if the donor gave it? Is it the case that in all this time and for the preceding two years the Neary business was in the headlines? Every so often the Neary issue would blow up and it was manifestly known to be about planning. Did the Taoiseach ask Ray Burke prior to his appointment to Cabinet whether he had received any payments in connection with that? That was the background that gave rise to all these questions. Without reflecting on the Taoiseach's credibility, I find it a little difficult——

A question please, Deputy Rabbitte.

Is it not——

The Deputy lectures everybody in this House. Will he grow up and be a little more mature in his behaviour? Do not lecture the Chair.

If maturity jumped up and bit the Minister he would not recognise it.

Do not worry, I am not in the least afraid of the Deputy.

Is it not stretching credulity a little that the Taoiseach would not remember a recent encounter with Deputy Spring? In his statement the Taoiseach said: "I was only apprised of these facts in the course of preparation of the affidavit of discovery". Yet Deputy Quinn has said that Deputy Spring expressly approached him on this issue. It seems odd that he cannot recall that.

He may even have got the letter himself.

Did the Taoiseach refresh his memory before coming into this important debate in terms of his own standing on the anonymous information Deputy Bruton, Deputy Spring and I received and whether the Rennicks issue was in the middle of it? Does the Taoiseach know of or suspect any payments to Mr. Burke other than the two that have now come into the public arena? Does the Taoiseach accept that at a minimum this reflects very badly on his judgment and that despite all that we now know, he proceeded to appoint the then Deputy Ray Burke to a senior Cabinet post?

I had a brief discussion with Deputy Spring and it was the only occasion he could have mentioned it to me. I received a number of anonymous letters and there was one we considered we should put before the tribunal. I did not check that today but I certainly remember checking a few others. I could tell the Deputy in half an hour whether it was the letter from Rennicks. It is as simple as that. In regard to what we were checking, Mr. Ray Burke never stated he did not get contributions: he got contributions. My concern was to be absolutely clear if he got a very substantial contribution. Having checked the matter through Bailey and JMSE, it was not clear whether he had received that contribution. My concern was whether he had received it and if there was anything wrong with it.

To this day, Ray Burke would say — and I asked him on a number of occasions — that he received contributions and there was no wrongdoing. That is the reason he is involved in the inquiry and I presume, until the inquiry is concluded, he is innocent. I tried continually to inquire into the matter because there were persistent stories, which may have been right or wrong, to the effect that there was more to it. Deputy Rabbitte asked me a third question.

I asked about the Neary background and if the Taoiseach knew or suspected there were other payments involved.

I do not have any knowledge of other payments but I cannot say there are none.

In preparation for the affidavit?

In preparation for the affidavit I can certainly say there were no other payments discovered in regard to Ray Burke. We concluded other matters in the affidavit but no other matter about Ray Burke.

When the Taoiseach investigated Ray Burke prior to appointment, why did he not confront him about the issue of all donations he might have received? When he heard in March of this year that Deputy Burke had definitely received £30,000 from Fitzwilton, why did the Taoiseach not investigate at that stage any possible conflicts of interest that might have existed as affecting Deputy Burke in any of the ministries he held either before or after the donation from Fitzwilton? Why did the Taoiseach come into this House today unable to answer the obvious question I asked him about whether Rennicks had ever applied for or received a grant from the IDA while Mr. Burke was a Minister?

I said that as far as I know, the answer to that question was no.

As far as the Taoiseach knew, but why did he not check it? I accept the Taoiseach does not know now but given that he has known since March that Mr. Burke got £30,000 from Rennicks, why did he not check whether Rennicks had received a grant from the IDA? Why did he not check the records in his own Department for any allegations, anonymous or otherwise, he might have received about connections between Mr. Burke and Rennicks? Why is the Taoiseach so lamentably unprepared for this debate today?

I did not come in here today to outline the grants that Rennicks, a company I know little or nothing about, may have received over the years. I do not have any information about that and nothing has been put to me about IDA or planning grants in connection with Rennicks other than what has been in the public domain in the past 48 hours about this article. A number of anonymous letters were received in the period following Ray Burke's resignation. We checked some of those and party headquarters decided that one letter should be given to the tribunal, even though it was anonymous. It would not be difficult for me to check which letter was involved but I believe it was in the affidavit.

Deputy J. Bruton rose.

I call Deputy Gormley. I will call Deputy Bruton again if there is time available.

I represent 54 Deputies. Deputy Gormley represents two.

I appreciate that.

Does the Taoiseach believe Mr. Burke misled him and his party colleagues in relation to the £10,000 contribution? We were given the impression that this contribution was from JMSE. Can the Taoiseach not bring himself to state unequivocally that Mr. Burke's behaviour was unacceptable? Will the Taoiseach unequivocally condemn Mr. Burke's behaviour or is he not into the politics of condemnation? Will he agree we have to set standards in this House and that these could be set if the Taoiseach stated clearly his views about Mr. Burke's behaviour? Where are the Taoiseach's Government colleagues today, the Progressive Democrats? I do not see any of them in the House.

The Deputy was not here earlier. He was late coming into the House.

They are not here now. They have absconded.

They have gone to catch the train to Cork.

Has the Taoiseach spoken to Mr. Burke since these revelations were made in Magill magazine or has he spoken to him since March? This is important. Will he make it his business to speak to him about these matters or are there more skeletons in the cupboard?

The tribunal will judge the actions of Mr. Burke. I will not judge him. The tribunal will undertake detailed examinations in due course. There will be a public session. Mr. Burke will have an opportunity to defend himself and the tribunal will make recommendations. It is entirely inappropriate for the Deputy or myself to prejudge the outcome.

Does the Taoiseach believe he was misled?

Deputy Gormley should allow the Taoiseach to answer.

My only interest at the time was the £10,000 donation. I am of the view that the reason Mr. Burke gave that sum was that he had received an extraordinarily substantial contribution, to use his own words. I did not believe £10,000 was the only amount he received and felt he may have been given other small contributions. I was more than surprised when we discovered in March that another contribution of £30,000 had been made.

In regard to the donation from JMSE, does the Taoiseach recall saying he was satisfied that no favours were asked or granted either before or after in the context of the donation? Is he similarly satisfied that no favours were requested or given before or afterwards in the context of the donation from Fitzwilton? Does he have any plans to investigate this matter to establish, for the satisfaction of the public, that there was nothing untoward about the £30,000 donation? Did it not occur to him that it was a little odd that somebody would go to a Minister's home with a donation for the party and that the Minister would ask to have the cheque made out to cash? Was it normal for donations to Fianna Fáil to be made in Ministers' homes?

Some Fine Gael Ministers got brown paper bags in hotels.

The Deputy went to Ben Dunne's home.

Was it normal for Fianna Fáil Ministers to ask donors to have cheques made out to cash rather than to the party? Did the Taoiseach make any inquiries from Fitzwilton as to why it followed this course of action in view of the party's ongoing relationship with Fitzwilton and with all other businesses in the State?

It is not acceptable that people should take party donations made out to themselves or to cash. If they were made out to the party these matters would not arise. The system is different now in that these donations have to be declared. The events to which the Deputy referred were not normal practice.

As I said earlier, when I tried to find out in the first instance about these matters, I was told that no money whatsoever had been given. It was only when officers in Fianna Fáil headquarters found the receipt that we knew this money had to be from Rennicks, that the contribution was given through Mr. Burke from Rennicks.

On the matter of no favours asked, as I said earlier in reply to Deputy Quinn, I was told by Mr. Burke when I asked — I ask prior to the election because I remember stating it in at least two or three press conferences around the country where people asked me about it — that no favours were asked and no favours were given. I am sure the inquiry will find out whether that is true. The inquiry has been working to that end for a considerable time and I am sure by the time it reaches its conclusion, it will be satisfied on that matter. I cannot say categorically what was the position in relation to Fitzwilton or Rennicks.

It has been suggested in the course of the questions this afternoon that at a meeting on 7 June 1989 a contribution of £30,000 was sought. To the person looking at it from outside, the question might immediately occur why £30,000 from Rennicks and nothing requested from anybody else. Was a contribution sought from anybody else with whom former Minister Burke had meetings? This afternoon we heard about a long letter, for example, from Mr. Burke——

Deputy Higgins, will you confine yourself to a question?

Yes, we are short of time. Did any of the interests referred to in the letters of 4 February from Mr. Burke to Mr. Joe Hayes or of 8 October 1990 from Mr. Hayes to Mr. Burke meet Mr. Burke? What took place? What topics were discussed? Was a contribution sought? Specifically, did any of the interests on whose behalf the £30,000 payment was made, that is, Rennicks, part of Fitzwilton which includes other companies, or companies within the group seek a meeting with former Minister Burke or with any other Minister at that time or since in relation to policy, specifically telecommunications or broadcasting policies? Is the Taoiseach able to assure the House that such meetings were of a different kind than the one which took place with Fitzwilton's company, Rennicks?

I do not know that. All those matters about who would have met whom and which letters were transferred are not matters which I have had investigated.

The Taoiseach could make them available.

Did Mr. Donlon not go down to Glandore?

When Deputy Higgins was in Government.

In terms of the questions the Deputy asked me about letters and meetings which would have taken place in 1988, 1989 or 1990, I am sure they could be checked out with the relevant Departments. Certainly they are not events I would even try to say did or did not happen.

Why, when these matters were a cause of great controversy in August/September last, did the Taoiseach not ask the general secretary or the financial comptroller of his party to check, not simply whether £10,000 was received but the exact origins of that money? Will he accept that that would have been a matter easily ascertainable, as he has now discovered?

Did the Taoiseach ask Mr. Burke whether the £10,000 he paid to Fianna Fáil came from the Gogarty money or from some other source? If not, why not? In that context, will the Taoiseach clarify whether he made contact with Rennicks to ask why the payment was made? What did the company think it was doing? Why did it not send the money to Fianna Fáil headquarters? Why did it feel the need to personally go to Mr. Burke's house? Did it not occur to the Taoiseach that these were questions which he should ask of Rennicks?

Did the Taoiseach, as Leader of the Opposition before the last election, meet representatives of Independent Newspapers and discuss MMDS licensing? Did he give any assurances at any such meeting?

With regard to the general secretary, the only matter I checked at the time was whether the money was given. I did not undertake a detailed trawl. I was not interested at that time. I assumed the money was given by Mr. Burke. That is the way I interpreted it. Nothing was said at the time to make me think anything else.

A Deputy

The Taoiseach has been Minister for Finance.

The former Taoiseach acknowledged it.

(Interruptions.)

The Taoiseach without interruption.

There were officers in the Taoiseach's party who must have known this was Rennicks money, not Gogarty money.

The detail; they had all of the facts. I only wanted to know if £10,000 was given. I was not trying to check anything else at the time.

As I said earlier, when we were declaring the Rennicks company to the tribunal, we informed that company as a matter of courtesy. First, Mr. David Byrne, on behalf of the company, said that the company gave no money. Subsequently, the company told us that it did. As far as I know, the company reported that it gave that money, the £30,000, in a bank draft at the request of Mr. Burke. Mr. Burke said he was using some of it in his constituency and the rest was going to headquarters. That was its understanding.

The Deputy knows what happened. The £10,000 went to headquarters and £20,000——

Did the Taoiseach ask them why——

Allow the Taoiseach to conclude his answer.

Did the Deputy ask Deputy Lowry?

To answer the third question, I had no meetings with Fitzwilton. Any meetings I have had with Independent Newspapers have been in the normal way of the party leaders or other spokespersons, where we would discuss the general, economic or political situation, as I did on many occasions over the years as Minister for Labour and Minister for Finance. I had no meetings about MMDS or any other matter.

That concludes Statements on Political Donations.

(Interruptions.)

The Order of the House was that there would be 40 minutes for questions.

Until 6 p.m. I have been indicating——

The 40 minutes commenced at 5.16 p.m. It concludes at 5.56 p.m.

I have been indicating I wanted to speak for the last half hour.

No. From 3.50 p.m. until 6 p.m.

There were 40 minutes for questions.

(Interruptions.)

Deputy Sheehan, you cannot challenge the ruling of the Chair. Resume your seat.

I was indicating a half an hour ago.

(Interruptions.)

I would ask the Deputies to resume their seats. The order of the House today, agreed by all parties, was that the Taoiseach should take questions for a period not exceeding 40 minutes. That order was complied with by the Chair and we now move on to other business.

It is a cover-up, a sham.

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