Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 1 Oct 1998

Vol. 494 No. 3

Western Development Commission Bill, 1998: Second Stage.

Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture and Food (Mr. Davern)

I move: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time." I have pleasure in introducing to the House the Bill for the establishment of the Western Development Commission on a statutory basis. The Western Development Commission has its origins in the "Developing the West Together" initiative, which produced a report entitled A Crusade for Survival in 1994. This report highlighted the problems of the region and began the process of identifying solutions. Subsequently, a Government task force which was established to examine the report identified the need for a "strategic focus which would provide direction to the activities of the various agencies operating in the Region, in partnership with the efforts of local communities." In its report, the task force recommended the establishment of a Western Development Partnership Board with a mandate to produce an action plan for the economic and social development of the region — defined as the counties of Donegal, Sligo, Leitrim, Roscommon, Mayo, Galway and Clare — with the objective of achieving population stability before the end of the decade at 1991 census levels on a county basis.

The Western Development Partnership Board was established by the Government in October 1994 and its action plan, The Challenge: a Positive Future Through Action, was published in May 1995. The action plan's key recommendations were the establishment of a Western Development Commission and a western investment fund.

On 14 May 1995, the Government approved the establishment of both a Western Development Commission, to replace the Western Development Partnership Board, and a western investment fund. The Western Development Commission was subsequently established by the Government with effect from 1 January 1997. The function of the commission essentially is to promote the economic and social development of the western region by collaborating with and promoting strategic linkages between the existing agencies operating in the region.

The establishment of the commission on a statutory basis is evidence of the Government's ongoing determination and commitment to promoting the economic and social development of the west. I believe that the commission has an important role to play in that process in co-operation with the other agencies and bodies and the various programmes which are being implemented in the west.

The commission's role in working closely with the other economic and social actors in the region will facilitate the elaboration of a specific regional response to specific regional problems. In addition, the western investment fund, which will be operated by the commission, will provide financial support for social and economic projects being implemented in the region.

In brief, the Bill provides for the establishment of the commission on a statutory basis as well as the establishment of a western investment fund to be operated by the commission. In the drafting of the legislation I was particularly concerned to avoid duplication or competition with the activities of other agencies. The commission is being established to further enhance, not undermine or dilute, the development efforts of other agencies operating in the region. The functions of the commission, as defined in section 8, have been so drafted to ensure complementarity and to avoid duplication.

Exchequer funding to cover the administrative and operating costs of the commission are provided for in the annual Vote of my Department. In addition, £25 million is being provided for the western investment fund on the basis of £2 million this year and £5 million in each of the years 1999 and 2000. A review of the operation of the fund will be undertaken commencing in late 1999.

I will concentrate only on those sections which I consider it important to comment on before the House. Part 1 contains standard provisions relating to the short title, interpretation of the main terms used, penalties arising from disclosures by members or staff of the commission and provision for expenses incurred in administering the Act to be made from voted moneys. I believe that these are self-explanatory and do not require further comment. Part II of the Bill deals with a range of matters relating to the establishment, organisation, procedures and functions of the commission. Section 7 establishes the commission on a statutory basis with the legal status of a body corporate.

The general functions of the commission are set out in section 8. These include promoting, securing the promotion of, fostering, encouraging and assisting in the economic and social development of the western region. In general terms this involves developing an overall strategy for achieving the commission's primary objective of economic and social development, working closely with Government Departments and agencies to co-ordinate and seek to refocus as necessary their priorities and programmes in support of the commission's primary functions and working closely with the private sector and representative business organisations to create the conditions to encourage investment in enterprise and job creation.

More specifically, the functions of the commission include providing assistance for business and social enterprises and projects and encouraging the establishment, maintenance and expansion of such activity. The realisation of the co-ordination and promotion functions assigned will require administrative support structures at both regional and national levels. At the regional level the commission is developing both formal and informal contacts with the regional authorities and relevant State and non-State agencies and bodies operating in the region. Close collaboration with Government Departments and their agencies is essential also if the commission is to successfully implement its mandate of monitoring progress of performance. In practical terms, with these objectives in mind a national liaison network and forum of western Ministers have been established. The national liaison network comprises representatives of Government Departments and State agencies. The purpose of the network is to provide a link between the Western Development Commission and senior officials of Government Departments and State agencies. It provides a forum for policy discussion on targets and objectives for the seven western counties, as well as influencing the activities and policies of State agencies and Departments. In order to provide additional momentum to the work of the national liaison network, I will contact all Government Departments shortly to confirm the nomination of a high level officer to the network. My Department will also arrange meetings and briefing sessions between these officials and the commission.

The forum of western Ministers was established, at the suggestion of the Taoiseach, to facilitate contact between myself and ministerial colleagues from the west on matters of concern to the commission. I am convinced that Ministers from the region have an invaluable contribution to make in helping the commission realise the strategy it is developing for the regeneration of the west.

The co-ordinating fora will permit the elaboration of a coherent regional strategy with appropriate consultation and contact between the various State agencies, Departments and the Western Development Commission. Such positive co-ordination will, as I have mentioned, help ensure complementarity between the various State agencies and avoid duplication.

Section 8 also provides that financial assistance will be in the form of the purchase of shares and the provision of loans in suitable investments. Grant aid is already being provided under various programmes operating on a national basis. Where strategic sustainable projects, of an economic or social nature, are being developed the commission will be able to provide a further complementary means of financial support by taking out equity or providing loans. This intervention will result in development projects being undertaken which otherwise might not have been launched. The Department will also arrange meetings and briefing sessions between these officials and the commission.

Sections 9 to 13 deal with the appointment and remuneration of the commission. Provision is made for 11 ordinary members and a chairperson. I believe a board of this size should be highly effective in allowing geographic and sectoral representation without becoming unwieldy. I will be appointing additional ordinary members over the coming weeks in line with the proposals in the Bill.

The requirements of developing a strategy, identifying priorities and co-ordinating and integrating regional and sectoral responses will necessitate the establishment of several advisory groups to assist the commission in its work. These are provided for in section 19. It also allows persons other than members of the commission to be included in these committees. This is because such persons may be able to provide the expert input and analysis required by the different committees. The commission will appoint the chairperson and pay any relevant expenses incurred by the committee members. The current commission has already established five sectoral advisory committees. These will provide advice in the areas of natural resources, manufacturing and services, tourism, the arts, marine and information technology. These sectors were identified as strategic ones in the partnership board's action plan. The committees comprise representatives of State agencies, third level institutions, local development organisations and the private sector. Their broad representative structure will further ensure synergy and co-operation between the various social and economic bodies operating in the region and will facilitate the elaboration of common regional development priorities. Further committees will be established where they are considered necessary.

Part III relates to finance and staffing. Section 20 provides for the establishment of a western investment fund to be operated by the commission. This fund has an important role in providing financial assistance to facilitate investment in developing companies in the west and in supporting the Western Development Commission's function of promoting and encouraging investment by the public and private sectors. As already indicated, some £25 million in Exchequer funding will be provided over six years. In addition, the commission may, under section 25, accept gifts of money, land or other property provided that any conditions attached are consistent with its functions. I am confident this investment fund will provide a major source of funding for small and medium enterprises in the west. Several projects are already being examined and I have no doubt that additional jobs will arise as a result. Enterprise and jobs are the basis for economic and social development, allowing as they do people to remain in the west and build sustainable local communities.

The commission is required, in accordance with section 22, to keep all accounts and to submit them to the Comptroller and the Auditor General for audit not later than three months after the end of the accounting period to which they relate. Copies of the said accounts will be laid before each House of the Oireachtas. Section 23 also requires that the commission submit a report on its activities in the preceding year on or before 31 March each year. This report will be laid before each House of the Oireachtas.

Sections 26 and 27 deal with the staffing of the commission, including its terms and conditions, remuneration and allowances. A staffing complement of nine was recently sanctioned for the commission. This staffing provision, which is appropriate to its needs, will facilitate the implementation of its mandate. I am pleased that the question of staffing levels has been resolved before the establishment of the commission on a statutory basis. As already indicated, administrative costs will be funded from an annual grant-in-aid from my Department.

I propose to table three amendments on Committee Stage which clarify the original intention of the legislation. The first of these is a technical change to section 8(1)(e)(i). The draft Bill has the wording "to consult with such Minister of the Government as it considers appropriate". A change is required to delete the word "Minister' and substitute the word "Ministers". I propose this change to indicate clearly that the Western Development Commission may consult with any Minister, as considered appropriate, rather than just a single Minister.

In section 8(5), I will propose that the wording read:

Financial or other material aid provided to enterprises or projects by the Commission shall be in such form and subject to such terms and conditions as may be determined from time to time (at such times as may be specified by the Minister) by the Commission with the consent of the Minister given with the concurrence of the Minister for Finance, and the amount thereof, in the case of any particular enterprise or project, shall not exceed £250,000 without the consent in writing of the Minister.

In other words, the commission can spend up to £250,000 but it will have to gain permission or have further consultation to spend more than that. Detailed examination of the original wording suggested that it might be construed from it that ministerial approval would be necessary for each individual project being funded by the commission. This was not my intention as such a procedure would be unnecessarily cumbersome and bureaucratic. The revised wording states more clearly that only projects exceeding £250,000 must be referred for approval.

Regarding the powers of the commission to become involved in infrastructural works, I propose that the wording of section 8(2) be amended to read:

The Commission shall not provide financial or other material aid for the infrastructural projects referred to in paragraph (b)(ii) or (d) of subsection (1) unless they are subsidiary and ancillary to business or social enterprises or projects.

The intention was that the commission would not be involved in the funding of major infrastructural projects such as national roads. The revised wording will however ensure that the commission can fund all works relating to a specific project where they include minor infrastructural works such as access or services which are an inherent part of the project.

The more general role of the commission in relation to identifying and promoting developments involving infrastructure remains unchanged. The relationship between the commission and other State agencies operating in the region is clearly defined in the legislation, in particular section 8. Section 8 (1)(b) empowers the commission:

to identify business and social enterprises and projects, and infrastructural projects related to those projects that . should be accelerated

and later:

to promote, foster and encourage the provision, maintenance and, if appropriate, the enlargement of, and procure the provision of assistance for such infrastructural projects, both local and regional, as it considers necessary or expedient for the purposes of economic and social development in the Western Region.

This co-ordinating role will provide a cohesive focus for the various State authorities in the region in relation to infrastructural requirements. It can be seen that, while the commission has an advisory and co-ordinating role in relation to infrastructure, it is primarily involved with assisting business and social enterprises.

The Western Development Commission is being established on a statutory basis to provide a body for the west which will answer the needs of the people there. It will ensure a regional focus by national authorities, foster enterprise at a local level and, furthermore, co-ordinate the excellent work already being done in the area by various organisations both private and public, especially at local community level. It will also work with State agencies to provide cohesion and foster a spirit of co-operation which will maximise the benefit to the entire region. The western investment fund will provide funding to help people in the west to help themselves, and also to encourage investment in the west by others.

The provisions of this Bill will give a new impetus to western development and promote the well-being of communities in the western region. I welcome this and commend the Bill to the House.

Mr. D. Carey

I join the Minister of State, Deputy Davern, in welcoming this Bill. The proposal for a western development commission originally came from the Department of the Taoiseach and I was involved with it so I am happy the Minister of State was able to publish this legislation. The heads had been proposed in early 1997 and were accepted by the then Taoiseach, Deputy John Bruton, and the Government. The delay in publishing this measure has resulted from the Taoiseach's lack of insight and understanding of rural communities. He did not seem to have any plans when he took office. Responsibility for the Western Development Commission was taken from the Department of the Environment and Local Government and finally landed on Deputy Davern's desk. I am glad the Deputy has had the courage to go ahead with this proposal and, by and large, our proposals are included in the Bill.

I will trace the history of this issue. Originally it was a group of small farmers near Loughrea who cried "stop". They wanted to stay at home and their families to do likewise. They also wanted a reasonable standard of living. They did not turn to politicians to address their difficulties. Instead they went to their local church leaders who campaigned strongly for proposals to achieve a population balance. They wanted self-sustaining economic activity and partnership between local, county and regional interests. A period of idea generation followed which examined the skills, expertise, interests and experiences of people in the region.

The then Taoiseach, Deputy Albert Reynolds, set up the Western Development Partnership Board which undertook a fuller study, a process continued by Deputy John Bruton when he became Taoiseach. He recognised the leading role played by the Department of the Taoiseach in this area. Deputies Reynolds and Bruton were correct to keep responsibility for this matter within the Department of the Taoiseach. I am critical of the present Taoiseach. This is a matter of confidence in the west and the lack of confidence has led to horrific emigration and migration which has virtually denuded the west of its population.

Many areas were pulled together quickly due to the leading role played by the Department of the Taoiseach. This Bill attempts to address the difficulty and I wish Deputy Davern well, but my experience is that Departments are not forthcoming with ideas when asked to take part in interdepartmental groups dealing with infrastructure. The best example of this problem involved Deputy Andrews when he was Minister for the Marine. He set up a commission to examine the difficulties faced by offshore islands. The study was headed by the Department of the Marine but it also involved other Departments. However, it failed to come to any conclusion even though Deputy Andrews had an interest in reaching a conclusion. It was not until the issue came under the aegis of the Department of the Taoiseach that all the leading Departments involved in island development came together. The same model should have been used in the case of the Western Development Commission.

The Department of the Taoiseach has a leading responsibility for some areas of social exclusion, an issue which will be dealt with by the Western Development Commission. The commission represents the first attempt to establish regional development in an area which has sadly lagged behind.

In the House yesterday the Taoiseach spoke of the lack of income in certain areas. The highest unemployment rate is in County Donegal and that is a matter of social exclusion. The lowest income per capita is also in the west — 64 per cent. Tackling this problem involves many Departments. However, the Taoiseach has brought a Department of Finance mindset to his job. That is not the generous role that his predecessors, Deputies Bruton and Reynolds, sought for the Department of the Taoiseach. It is necessary to develop a model under which other regional development authorities can be established. It is a huge job to co-ordinate such a process which involves so many interests and Departments.

John Higgins was appointed chief executive of the Western Development Partnership Board by Albert Reynolds and co-ordinated a series of feasibility studies which culminated in a report entitled The Challenge: A Positive Future Through Action. This plan identified three key areas of need. First, the need to close the gap between the high level of expertise and support systems to be found and the linkage of this support to produce self-sustainable development. Second, the need to build new partnership models for vibrant economic and social development at a local, county and regional level and for a mechanism with the specific role of integrating the proposed development initiatives. Third, the need to broaden the investment base of the region to attract more indigenous and external investment and to close equity gaps.

This Bill addresses the third point by establishing the western investment fund. The Western Development Partnership Board identified the need for innovative, structural state and sectoral initiatives as an additional means for achieving economic and social development in the region. The board also highlighted the need to establish the Western Development Commission; a programme for identification and linkages of opportunities and initiatives or innovative approaches and technologies, PILOT; the western investment fund; local enterprise networks, LENS and the establishment of a western social development unit.

LENS was already under way when this Government took office. There were pilot schemes in Athenry and south Donegal and I am glad the banks played a leading role in this initiative. Other initiatives were also taking place. Venture capital was being encouraged, particularly by Sligo Corporation and Chamber of Commerce which were working well towards establishing such initiatives.

However, the programme announced by the Minister of State seems to reduce the number of initiatives expected by the Western Development Partnership Board's report. The Minister announced an amendment to section 8(2) which states:

The Commission shall not provide financial or other material aid for the infrastructural projects referred to in paragraphs (b)(ii) and (d) of subsection (1).

He also announced another amendment. However, these amendments will restrict the role of the chief executive officer. Kick starting venture capital projects in the west will depend on the quality of the projects which come before the commission. The previous Government examined the possibility of renewing the western rail link from Sligo to Limerick providing an opportunity of regenerating towns in the area. This was a vibrant rail link in the late 1940s and early 1950s. It was very good.

During the late 1950s and early 1960s the Government rationalised the railways and the west Clare railway was closed down. The west Clare railway, if it existed today, would be an outstanding tourist amenity. I am not talking only about providing a tourist amenity from Limerick to Sligo, I am also talking about it in economic terms, a partnership which would involve the investment of funds by the Western Development Commission, local interests and, perhaps, an outside fund. The western development fund was to attract funds from overseas. It had even identified holders of substantial capital in America who would be willing to invest in western projects. This would mean the upgrading of the rail link thus alleviating much pressure on the roads. Those roads cannot take the heavy trucks using them. It appears the National Roads Authority has no plans to upgrade the western corridor which is vital for the economic survival of the west.

In the original talks at the Department of the Taoiseach it was envisaged the Western Development Commission would consider a major infrastructural investment, together with manufacturing investment or a quasi-manufacturing social investment as a means of raising venture capital. We have a real problem with venture capital here. There was a huge provision for venture capital previously but it was not taken up. This is an area where the Western Development Commission will need to take a lead role. I am pleased the advisory committees are working. They were to be set up in the areas of natural resources, tourism, arts and heritage, information technology, infrastructure, marine, manufacturing and services. Those on the advisory committees have substantial knowledge. A partnership needs to be developed between groups already on the ground in the area of education.

We had envisaged that the Western Development Commission might involve itself in technology parks at the institutes of technology in Letterkenny, Sligo, Castlebar, Athlone, Galway and Limerick, similar to those at the University of Limerick where there are developments in tandem with Shannon development. These business parks would relate to indigenous industry developments which people would know are in the area but do not have either the training or the expertise to get on with it.

In fairness to the Minister of State there was a broader picture about the Western Development Commission when it was under the Department of the Taoiseach because that Department could bring Department heads together. Once the Taoiseach cracked the whip, the Departments responded. In his contribution the Minister has carefully treaded his route. He does not want to step on the corns of those in the Department of the Environment and Local Government who may be jealously looking at their infrastructural problems and road development. If that care was taken about the limitations of the west when the Structural Funds were being applied, the National Roads Authority would not be lumbered with the population criteria which it is required to apply before putting in roads. We are suffering in the west because of the decline in population. We cannot meet the heavy population demands of the east but we have other economic difficulties which are not measured. That is the reason I commenced by criticising the role of the Taoiseach. He does not seem to have a broad vision of what happens in rural communities in the west. He visits Castlebar by helicopter and is back in Dublin every night. This is not giving the impression that he has the real interests of rural communities at heart.

I wish the Minister of State, Deputy Davern, well. He is interested in rural communities having come from an area in south Tipperary which has had its ups and downs with emigration, small farms and many other difficulties. He has been given a portfolio that requires major decisions in the Departments of Education and Science, Environment and Local Government, Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands and Tourism, Sport and Recreation. He is asked to seek the goodwill of all these busy Ministers, not to impose solutions. Were he in the Department of the Taoiseach, three doors down the corridor, he could impose his will. This is an indication that the Taoiseach has no idea of the emerging model needed for structural and regional development. As Minister for Finance he negotiated the Structural Funds with the minimum of fuss and that has been his role ever since.

So far as projects are concerned, very good people were nominated to the advisory councils. Given that I am not privy to the current membership, will the Minister of State outline the participants and how often they meet? It is important that these people steer the Western Development Commission on formulating a plan on income and the many other problems in the west. If we are to get the maximum aid from the Western Development Commission in the new Structural Funds deal, all the various statistics will be needed for this area.

I refer again to the Taoiseach because he has irritated me on this matter. Yesterday he said there were no plans. Had he looked to the advisory councils he would have got any information he needed to obtain Objective One status for the west. However he chose to ignore it. He has his own agenda which I do not think includes a very wide perspective.

In his contribution, the Minister of State referred to social enterprises. I am puzzled about what is a social enterprise. There is a need for social development in the west and there is a critical role for women. I do not know whether the Department is still upset over the sexist reference by a former Minister to "farmerettes" and ladies in agriculture. There is a role for women in agriculture, particularly in the west. As Minister of State I found, particularly in Border regions, that it was women who wanted to progress social development. Retention of the population of such areas would be assisted if women had a full role. The biggest objective of the Western Commission is to maintain population balance, although the Minister did not say what year he would take as a reference point in this context. However, even if he succeeds in maintaining the population balance from the start-up year, he will have achieved something.

The Minister faces another difficulty in trying to bring together the disparate groups and people from the relevant counties. The hope was that the county strategy groups, established throughout the west from Donegal to Clare, would be brought together in consultation with the Western Commission and that partnership boards, enterprise boards, tourism committees, county and city managers, etc., would come together with their extensive plans for the entire area. It was hoped the outcome of such a coming together would form another part of the submission to Brussels if the Government believed a reasonable submission could be made on Objective One status. Some of the strategy groups had been meeting fairly regularly while others had not met at all.

The Department of Agriculture and Food has a particular role here as there are Leader groups in every county which have close associations with partnership boards and rural and urban development programmes. In this context has any progress been made in amalgamating the key issues identified by county strategy groups from Clare to Donegal? Some groups have involvement with INTERREG, IFI and other funds. If all the groups had been brought together there would be a better plan. Also involved are rural development groups in which the Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture and Food, Deputy Davern, takes a particular interest. I met him at Feakle at the launch of the Feakle bus when he did well and had a successful photocall. Great effort was put into the bus project which has resulted in the using of a school bus, which laid idle during the day, to take old folk and people from remote rural areas of north Clare to Ennis for shopping at least once or twice a week. I commend the Minister and the people of Feakle who got this admirable project up and running and which shows proper utilisation of State assets.

I hope all rural development and rural renewal programmes which are now the responsibility of the Minister of State will be sustained and further developed. I hope the Minister is given resources to ensure final reports are developed. I do not mean that rural development or rural renewal schemes should be a source of funding ad infinitum. I understand that groups must eventually be self-sustaining. There seemed to be a stagger in the progress of the groups. I would like the models to be brought up to date and more resources made available. They could be further expanded and I am sure the Minister of State has ideas for other rural renewal programmes which could be very progressive. My idea was that county strategy groups and the commission would get together to build the overall plan. Each group has integrated plans upon which decentralisation can be developed. Decentralisation will give confidence to the people in the west.

I am glad this issue has not become a political football. When I was responsible for the Western Commission and the Western Development Partnership Board we tried to ensure development was neutral in political terms as most Deputies from the west fully understand the difficulties. They always despaired regarding the future. In recent times the clergy and the bishops have been renewing their calls for initiatives to be taken in this area. There has been a delay of 18 months in progressing, but I do not think the Minister of State is responsible for this — I lay the blame squarely where it belongs. I hope in progressing the Minister of State will act quickly to set up the structures and that before he brings the Bill to committee stage he will review the restrictive section he referred to. There should be a more open hand and greater decision making should be given to the commission.

The people on the commission are representative of the west and were chosen for their personal skill and not for any political purpose. They include two representatives of the Confederation of Irish Industry, a trade unionist, a farmer, representatives of the county councils and a county manager. All these people are deeply involved in figuring out how to fully integrate the west. Mr. Michael McLoone, the county manager in Donegal, is one of the most progressive people in local government and it could not be said that my appointment of him to the commission was a political decision. The reason he was appointed was that he had successfully decentralised in County Donegal.

I wish the Minister of State well. I considered whether 11 members should be included but decided on the smaller figure on the basis that I wanted to make progress as quickly as possible. The Minister has a great hurdle to jump as there are bureaucratic fences at every turn. Despite the delay — I understand who was responsible — I am glad progress is now being made.

Mr. M. Higgins

Cuirim fáilte roimh an reachtaíocht agus guím gach rath ar a mbeidh ar siúl ag an choimisiún i gcomhthéasc an Bhille. Tá sé ráite sa méad atá curtha amach ag an choimisiún go bhfuil tacaíocht idir-pháirtí ag teastáil ionas go mbainfidh sé amach na sproiceanna atá acu. Aontaím leis agus beidh sé ar fáil.

I support the work of the commission and wish the Minister of State well in this and other initiatives he may want to take in relation to rural development. It is important to place the legislation in context. Since the 1960s in particular there has been a long line of special studies addressing the problems of the west.

I should mention some scholars who preceded the Loughrea initiative and their lordships' welcome interest in the west of Ireland. Fine work has been done by people such as John Scully who studied the 12 western counties. A study was also carried out by two people named Higgins within An Foras Talúntais as a result of which indicators on agricultural production were published. Studies were also carried out by Dr. P.J. Drudy and by Professors Cuddy and Boylan who attempted to establish an input/output model. All of these precede the welcome response to the needs of people in Loughrea who may have felt they were not being heard.

Discussion on the west began at the end of the 1950s and continued through the 1960s with Dr. Scully's work. Some painful truths were being hidden from communities in the west of Ireland. After Irish accession to the EU which resulted in enormous benefits to agriculture, the concentration on guarantees rather than guidance enormously favoured large volume producers. Thus the benefits of Irish membership of the EU always flowed disproportionately to those who had the greatest capacity to produce and take advantage of price. This fact is often obscured and not accidentally.

There was always a qualitative difference between the 12 western counties, to use Dr. Scully's terms, and other areas of agricultural production. Three sets of factors mitigated against the capacity of farming and agriculture in the west of Ireland. The first was physical in that soils were poor and badly drained; second, social factors meant the population involved was quite elderly and very often had lower levels of education than was available in the rest of the country when examined on a socio-economic basis; and third, farms were not held in one lot with more than 60 per cent being fragmented. As much as 80 per cent of the holdings were less than 50 acres and more than 50 per cent were less than 30 acres. Fragmented agriculture showed there was a desperate need for concentration on guidance measures but successive administrations focused on the guarantee side with the result that there was a fall in incomes. The period following Ireland's entry to the EU saw benefits being distributed disproportionately between smaller and larger farmers. Larger farmers could switch from one product to another because they had the capacity to do so but smaller farmers could not. I was reared on a small farm in County Clare and am aware of the inbuilt inflexibilities and limitations on production.

I have some reservations about the word ‘commercialisation' in the literature on the commission and in the Bill. I previously encountered the word in discussions on the politics of agriculture. Commercialisation led to the withdrawal of agricultural advice from smaller farmers as the delivery of such advice had to be paid for. The structure of agricultural planning and the absorption of the benefits of entry into Europe, the continuous concentration on the commercial rather than the social, the absence of linkages and the withdrawal of support meant that agriculture in the west was always at a disadvantage. That resulted in a set of very obvious social consequences. There was a high migration rate in the western counties. In the 1950s and 1960s, if one took a 15 to 19 year old cohort and looked for its members in the 20 to 24 year old cohort five years later, the average figure for out migration was of the order of 55 to 70 per cent. The matter became more complicated when one looked at where people had gone. Successive censuses since the 1970s have shown that, like Europe, there has been a drain from rural communities into regional towns. The only benefit has been the rising population in places such as Galway city but there has been a contraction in the populations of towns in County Galway. There has continued to be a significant drop in the level of migration to rural parishes.

A figure published five years ago forecast that 100,000 villages within the EU would have lost viability by the year 2000. I understand the figure has been revised by the research sections of various directorates in Brussels and that the real figure is much higher. At the same time as we are experiencing a growth in economic performance in different parts of the EU, we are experiencing a complete collapse in rural social life. Regional policy became fashionable in the 1970s — I was a member of the Regional Studies Association committee — and three bases were offered for regional policy. The first was that it made more sense to have an even distribution of growth in the economy and the second was a moral one in the sense that it was felt everyone in a community had a right to benefit equally in education, health services, housing and so on. The third reason was that one was witnessing a combination of two disasters — as rural depopulation and degradation of services were occurring, urban diseconomies were also being experienced. The history of regional policy shows that the concentration on the needs of rural areas usually occurs when urban diseconomies have reached a point where they are causing enormous and costly problems. Through out migration and population decline, schools and other services were falling into disuse and enormous pressure was being experienced in regard to new services in areas which were already overcrowded.

There has been a long and continuous interest in the problems of the western counties and, to some extent, the response has been merely rhetorical. One cannot easily consider the problems which have obtained in those counties without looking at the structure of agricultural policy and the way in which we have handled our membership of the EU. One must also consider the manner in which benefits to the fishing industry were comprehensively sold in return for benefits in regard to volume milk production. I have spoken about this issue in many coastal communities in the west of Ireland. The abandonment of fish for milk and beef has had a huge effect on those communities. The commission's work will probably work best in the context of a regional approach towards planning, an area in which successive Governments have had a poor record.

This is because of the obduracy of permanent staff in the Department of Finance. The beginning of this is highlighted in Ronan Fanning's book on the history of the Department of Finance, which includes the gem of opposing electricity because it would never catch on in Ireland. The book then moves on to cover its other glories. However, it is interesting that the Department of Finance and the Department of the Taoiseach saw off the Department which was briefly headed by Martin O'Donoghue in so far as it dealt with planning. There was hostility towards planning and total antipathy to regional planning. This was exceeded only by hostility towards the concepts of innovation and flexibility. A deadly eye was directed towards all these problems, to which the commission will now turn its attention.

The welcome report of the Bishops was seriously remiss in making no reference to the Irish language or culture. The same number of people — more than 32,000 — work in the culture industry as work in the banking sector. A large number of jobs could be created from the cultural diversity which would arise from activities built around the language. However, the Minister said social is inclusive of cultural, so I presume social development includes cultural development, including linguistic and cultural enterprises.

The commission would have benefited if there had been greater clarity in regional policy. I saw a letter from a senior official in the Department of Finance asking about the proposed changes in regionalisation which contains a disturbing phrase. It states:

In any case, whatever approach is ultimately adopted where Ireland remains as a single region in transition or as we constituted it to two new regions, the Government will ensure that the ensuing national plan is attentive to the needs of all regions of the country.

The difficulty about this is that I am not sure from where the conclusion came to have two regions. I know the stated purpose is to have one region 75 per cent above GDP and the remainder below. There is an inbuilt fragility to the consideration this will receive from the commission, as it will be seen as two categories of benefit rather than true regionalisation.

It would have been better to develop the Western Development Commission in three areas, the commencement of regional planning, a definition of regions and the designation of priority regions. I will give a practical example. I have spoken about the indicators to which regions must adhere as regards agricultural production, industry and social provision. It is a pity other regions which could be defined under these indicators are ignored.

There are other disadvantages to a crude indicator like GDP in the western region. I am leaving aside the factors of external influence on GDP and artificial transfers which inflate the GDP figure and have always been a disadvantage for Ireland. For example, the GDP measure includes those who describe themselves in a census as commercial farmers who own more than 1,000 acres in the same group as smaller farmers, 80 per cent of whom own under 50 acres, 50 to 60 per cent of whom own under 30 acres and some of whose holdings are widely fragmented. It is a crude indicator.

It would have been of benefit to the area covered by the commission and of further benefit to urban areas to approach Eurostat with a set of indicators which would include participation in education, long-term unemployment, dependence on a medical card, etc. These indicators, inserted in spatial maps, would have achieved densities which would have indicated the basis of a wider region of deprivation. This would carry social indicators and would be much better than GDP.

The western counties suffered from the crude way in which guarantee defeated guidance. People will remember the guidance directives. If someone had suggested to those heading farming organisations in Brussels that they leave aside the question of price to concentrate on guidance — to do what the Loughrea farmers wanted to assure the future of farm families on the soil — they would have been told what to do with themselves. It is a pity both horses were not travelled properly.

In exactly the same way, the GDP single indicator is madness as regards constructing a regional policy. It is a pity the three approaches I suggested are not being taken on board. We should aim for true regionalism, with regions specified by factors separate from GDP. We should express both rural and urban priorities. The last thing we need is an urban-rural conflict.

I have attended meetings in favour of Objective One status for western counties and I have supported the way in which they have tried to make the case against those who have benefited more than them, for example, as regards agricultural production. However, they are also sensitive to the fact that there are urban poor — those who leave school early and do not have employment opportunities.

This is ridiculous at a time of enormous unpredicted surpluses, even though the Department of Finance can never get the figures right. It is extraordinary that we are heading towards a 9 per cent growth rate when in some rural areas and parts of Dublin, the number of people participating in second and third level education is not rising significantly. This is a function of the tyranny of the single indicator. It will be argued that we would be making a case on our own. This is not so. The reality is that a number of different procedures have been suggested to both the commission and the methodological body which supports its thinking. These procedures should be adopted.

I wish the Minister of State well. I agree with Deputy Carey that his heart is in rural development. There are many policies I would have liked to implement in the Department for which I was responsible when in Government. However, they were not in my remit. I recall the European Commission indicating that more than 100,000 villages would no longer be viable by 2000. It would have been possible to do an enormous amount of good work for rural communities by turning abandoned cinemas all over the country into multi-purpose arts centres, with one screen for indigenous films, one for imported films, as 90 per cent of films viewed by Europeans come from the US, and one for art films. One could take a central building, give it life and create viability.

I do not want fall into the trap of suggesting that the reason there were so many problems in the west and such huge out migration levels was only economic. It was not just economic. Many people left to pursue the curiosity that is part of human nature and to escape from a dull life that did not offer a variety of options. That is a fact but one will not hear it often stated.

Those who thunder against politicians about this should bear in mind how much they did to create an atmosphere in which a person could live a diverse life, free from inquisitorial interference. Nobody who believes in rationality would support the awful blackthorn stick invigilation of those who should have had something better to do in the 1930s, 1940s and the 1950s. They sent practically every decent writer fleeing from rural Ireland. The benefit of that was to literature. People should look at the mote in their eye in that regard.

When discussing the Western Development Commission we should discuss not simply the economic but the social fabric that must be created and repaired. The social fabric must also be extended. This might consist of small things. I listened earlier to the description of the bus that was used to bring elderly people shopping in the evening. It is the thousands of such small things that are important. Deputy Carey mentioned the west Clare railway. When I was a child in County Clare that train was one of the few connections women had to the market. They travelled on it to Limerick to sell eggs, daffodils and butter. When the train stopped running these women were locked up at home because they had no connection or way out. That was part of the anti-rural thinking at the time.

However, while there is no point in being judgmental about it, it raises other questions. One question is whether we were inevitably on a path to a better way of life when it would leave rural areas, not just in the counties affected by this legislation, with communities that were no longer viable. The other aspect was that it created a non-sensical suggestion that there were such things as purely urban and purely rural people in Ireland. Most people in urban areas were migrants from rural areas and the concept of the long-term urban dweller who would not know which end of a cow to milk was always a myth.

There is great need for clarity about what every body and agency is doing in these counties. The country is awash with agencies and bodies. I have often tried and failed to draw a map of the bodies to which one should turn for various things and clarity is essential in this regard.

The area of Galway city which comprises Inisheannagh, Galcarraig and Camilaun Parks has an unemployment rate of over 65 per cent. At the same time people in other areas of the city enjoy two and three foreign holidays and change their BMW every year. The GDP for the Galway area is an absurdity. It hides the fact that these pockets of high unemployment exist. In some cases, families are in their third generation of unemployment. I started holding clinics in Galway in 1968 and I have now reached the third generation of people who have unemployment problems associated with low educational attainment, poverty in the home and so forth. That is why I am using this occasion to make the case for the proper construction of indicators that can be inclusive.

There is no point in yet more windy statements about everyone's support for inclusiveness and opposition to exclusiveness. We must now set about the task. I hope the commission will give a lead in trying to use these indicators to give a true picture of what is happening in the counties for which it has responsibility.

The legislation provides that the commission will report on its activities and it specifies the reporting procedure. I have no difficulty with those provisions or with the Minister's amendments in that regard. However, it is important that a dimension of the commission's report should comment on the degree of co-operation it found with other agencies and Departments. Deputy Carey and I tried in the past to promote co-operation among agencies and bodies with regard to the Irish language but it was a mixed experience. The commission should report on such matters and on the attitudes it encounters, and they should be a matter of debate in this House.

The word "innovation" could be used more frequently. I worry about the commission's description of itself and its function to recognise things that have commercial viability. One wonders if this carries the danger of a chicken and egg situation where in order to be or become a success one has to be a success. What about where there is an initial idea that offers a link between existing activity but which cannot be demonstrated in the short-term? That is an important issue.

I would welcome an assurance from the Minister that cultural industries are included. The project that comes to mind is the Gaillimh na Gaeilge one which was based on a linguistic definition of a city.

Everybody has been extremely polite in the past about how the banking system was a net drain on the regions. All the evidence demonstrates that it was like a sponge soaking up deposits and sending them out of the region. It showed little commitment to regional development across the board.

With the establishment of the commission on a statutory basis, it might be useful if the Minister of State convened a conference of all bodies with which the commission will have a relationship. He should seek an assurance of co-operation from them so the commission will have the best possible chance of succeeding.

Mar a dúirt mé, guím rath ar an obair a bheidh ar súil ag na hoifigigh agus na daoine a bheidh ag déileáil leis an coimisiún nua.

Ms Cooper-Flynn

In deference to Deputy Higgins I will try to avoid making windy statements. I compliment the Minister of State, Deputy Davern, on bringing this legislation before the House and establishing the Western Development Commission on a statutory basis. It demonstrates the commitment of the Minister of State to this issue. Although he is not from the west of Ireland he has, over the last year, visited the area on numerous occasions and is well acquainted with the problems there and the need for social and economic development. In the past few months the western region has generated much media attention and debate as a result of the negotiations for EU Structural Funds and Objective One status.

The Western Development Commission is being established to promote economic and social development in the five counties of Connacht and in counties Clare and Donegal. In December last year the ESRI produced a report which highlighted the lack of development in these counties. The debate on this issue has been ongoing for years and people from the region did not need a report to be made aware of the need for development. I am delighted the Government is taking the initiative and doing something positive about the problems in the west through the establishment of the fund and the commission.

The board of the commission will consist of a chairperson and 11 members. It is important that each county is represented on the board. County Mayo, in particular, should have one if not two representatives on it. It is also important that different sectors as well as the different counties are represented. That is important if development is to take place in these sectors.

A fund of £25 million is being provided over a five year period — £2 million initially and £5 million per annum thereafter. This fund is totally inadequate. The sum of £25 million will go nowhere towards addressing the major problems we are experiencing, both socially and economically, in the west. While I welcome this fund, it is important the money is spread fairly between the seven counties involved. I will be monitoring that over the next few years. I also note that the Minister will be reviewing the fund in 1999. I hope that at that time more resources will be given to the western development fund because it is totally inadequate at its present level.

Debate adjourned.