Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 3 Dec 1998

Vol. 497 No. 7

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

It is proposed to take No. d9, motion re. Leave to Introduce Supplementary Estimates, Votes 1 and 15; No. e9, motion re. Referral of Supplementary Estimates, Votes 1 and 15, to select committee and No. c9, Financial Motions by the Minister for Finance, 1998 (resumed).

It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that No. d9 — Leave to Introduce Supplementary Estimates, Votes 1 and 15 — subject to the agreement of No. d9 and No. e9 shall be decided without debate and any divisions demanded thereon shall be taken forthwith. No. c9 shall not be considered in committee and the following arrangements shall apply to the resumed debate: the speech of the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and of the Taoiseach, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 40 minutes in each case; the speech of each other Member called upon shall not exceed 30 minutes in each case and Members may share time.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are two proposals before the House. Is the proposal for dealing with items d9 and e9 agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with item c9 agreed to? Agreed.

Mr. J. Bruton

I take it the House will have an opportunity to discuss the outcome of the Vienna Summit. Will the Taoiseach convey to the German Chancellor, on behalf of this House, our rejection of the suggestion that the Amsterdam Treaty can be rewritten to introduce qualified majority voting on taxation? During the negotiations on the treaty the Germans failed to agree changes in qualified majority voting and bringing the issue up now is a waste of energy and time. It is contrary to the better interests of Europe and is a false debate. Will the Taoiseach convey that to the Chancellor?

The Taoiseach

The debate on the Vienna Summit is scheduled for the last week of this session. Although the Amsterdam Treaty has long been finalised, this is not the first issue relating to it to arise. There is all-party agreement in this House that every country should implement the Amsterdam Treaty. It was freely negotiated and, in Ireland and some other countries, was democratically voted on. It would be more relevant if countries finalised passing and implementing it.

Mr. Howlin

On the Order of Business yesterday the Taoiseach said, in response to a question from the leader of the Labour Party, that the changes in the drug refund scheme, which will put an additional burden of £10 per month on households that are dependent on prescription drugs, is an administrative matter that does not require regulations. The Department of Health and Children has since confirmed that regulations are required. When will these regulations be laid before the House and will there be a full debate on them?

The Taoiseach

I was asked about legislation and told the House they did not require legislation. I understood that, during the debate on the changes, the Minister said they would not require regulations but were an administrative matter. If I was wrong, I will accept it. I will check with the Minister. If regulations are required they will have to be put in place shortly because the changes are due to be implemented shortly.

Mr. Howlin

Will the Government allocate time for a full debate on this important matter and give all Deputies an opportunity to vote on it?

The Taoiseach

That is a matter for the Whips.

Mr. Howlin

Is the Taoiseach disposed to allow such a debate? The Whips do the bidding of the Government on such matters.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is a matter for the Whips.

Proinsias De Rossa

When is it proposed to introduce legislation to enable the Government to break its contract with Eircell and Esat Digifone for the erection of telephone masts at Garda stations?

Mr. Howlin

The Blaney amendment Bill.

Proinsias De Rossa

Does the Taoiseach consider it appropriate for the Government to take such an initiative? Is there a written agreement between the Taoiseach and Deputy Blaney on this matter and will he place it in the Oireachtas Library so Deputies can inspect it?

An Ceann Comhairle

There is no promised legislation.

Proinsias De Rossa

The Government has breached a contract solemnly entered into by the last Government in relation to the erection of telephone masts at Garda stations. In order to guarantee a vote yesterday by Deputy Blaney the Government intervened and breached that contract. It is necessary for legislation to be brought before this House.

An Ceann Comhairle

I understand the Taoiseach has stated there is no promised legislation. Therefore, it is not appropriate on the Order of Business.

Proinsias De Rossa

It is a misuse of power.

Mr. Neville

In the course of a debate last night on the agriculture resolution the Minister of State, Deputy O'Dea, told me to stick to suicide. Will the Taoiseach dissociate himself and the Government from that very insensitive remark on a very serious subject?

Mr. O'Dea

I withdrew it.

An Ceann Comhairle

I understand the statement was withdrawn by the Minister of State.

Mr. Sargent

Regarding promised legislation, the Bretton Woods Agreement (Amendment) Bill, I asked on 9 October 1997 if the Taoiseach would consult with NGOs, particularly the debt relief and development organisations, given the impact this has on Ireland's relationship with the Third World. Given that that Bill is on the notice of new business, did he consult with those organisations as indicated on 9 October 1997?

The Taoiseach

The Bill is being circulated today. I do not know what particular meetings the Minister for Finance had. However, the NGOs are always in touch with the Department on these matters and I am sure they were in this case.

Mr. Higgins

(Mayo): The rainbow Government accepted the Fianna Fáil Party's Private Members' Bill, the Landlord and Tenant (Ground Rent Abolition) Bill, 1997. The Bill went into committee but the Government has failed to reactivate it. What is the present situation? It is ironic that a Bill proposed by his party appears to be stuck in a cul-de-sac.

A Deputy

That is not unusual.

The Taoiseach

When that Bill, in the name of the Minister for the Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Woods, was not opposed in March 1997, the previous Attorney General examined it and advised there were considerable legal doubts about its central purpose.

Mrs. Owen

The Taoiseach did not say that when the Bill was here.

The Taoiseach

That is still the position.

Mr. Broughan

I am not sure whether this is a question for the Chair or for the Taoiseach. This morning I note in the questions to the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment that nine or ten perfectly legitimate questions have been omitted from the Order Paper, including a priority question about the interim report on a national minimum wage. What can the Chair do to protect the rights of Deputies, and in this case of the Labour Party, to table relevant questions to the Minister? She said she likes only nice questions but it should be appropriate to ask any questions we wish.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot raise rulings on questions on the Order of Business. They should be taken up with my office.

Mr. Gormley

Is the Taoiseach aware that not one person has been arrested under the provisions of the Offences Against the State (Amendment) Act, 1998? Will he honour the commitment which I think he gave to Amnesty International to revisit this legislation and that the Act would be repealed before two years have elapsed? The Taoiseach will be aware that under the British-Irish Agreement repressive legislation must be repealed.

The Taoiseach

Some 11 people have been arrested to date under that legislation.

Mr. Gormley

I have a statement from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform stating that nobody has been charged.

The Taoiseach

The purpose of the legislation is to try to bring to justice people who have been involved in terrible crimes. I gave a commitment to the House that in due course this legislation would be revisited but that is not now.

Mr. Kenny

Will the Broadcasting Bill be published in mid-December as promised?

The Taoiseach

It is getting tight but I hope that will be possible.

Mr. Howlin

Has the Taoiseach been in touch with the British Prime Minister since his visit to Northern Ireland last night? Can he report progress towards clearing the impasse? Some months ago the Minister for the Environment and Local Government promised a comprehensive and radical Bill to reform the planning laws. On that basis a Labour Party Bill on gazumping and unfinished estates was voted down. When will that legislation be published?

The Taoiseach

On the question relating to Northern Ireland, the discussions continued last night until 3 a.m. The British Prime Minister left shortly before that. I had been in discussion with him until he left and afterwards with Seamus Mallon and Mitchell McLaughlin on the Nationalist side. The Prime Minister will continue to deal with the UUP. Discussions resumed this morning by telephone shortly after 7 a.m. A great deal of progress was made last night but there are still several difficulties to be wrapped up. As soon as everybody is back in Stormont buildings, hopefully about midday, the conversations will continue.

The planning Bill which is expected in the first half of 1999 will include some provisions relating to estates.

Mr. Higgins

(Mayo): On 20 September the Government Chief Whip published the Government's legislative programme. The section dealing with justice, equality and law reform had six Bills: the Illegal Immigrants (Trafficking and Employment) Bill; Family Law (International Protection of Children) Bill; the Proceeds of Crime (Amendment) Bill; the Data Protection (Amendment) Bill; the National Disability Authority Bill and the Criminal Law (United Nations Convention Against Torture) Bill. Of those six Bills only the Family Law (International Protection of Children) Bill has been published. With only two weeks to the end of this session that indicates an appalling state of lethargy in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform.

The Taoiseach

The Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform has an enormous legislative programme and has brought forward a large number of Bills. It had two Bills published this session and four which are close to being ready. The National Disability Authority Bill was cleared by the Government on Tuesday and it is hoped to have at least two others on the agenda before Christmas.

Mr. M. Higgins

Two days ago I asked about the Bretton Woods Agreements (Amendment) Bill, 1998, which was circulated this morning. In the Government's original legislative programme that Bill was scheduled for 1999 or possibly 1998. Will the Taoiseach agree that the purpose of the Bill is to rationalise what has already been decided by the Government in relation to making payments to ESAF, among other things, a proposal that will be opposed by my party? If this is the case would it not have been better to structure the legislation in such a way as to allow a proper and adequate debate on debt relief and development rather than introduce a short Bill, ahead of time, which rubber stamps a decision that is not in the interests of the recipient countries?

An Ceann Comhairle

Let us not go into the content of the Bill.

Mr. M. Higgins

What was the reason for the rush in bringing forward a Bill from 1999 when he could have structured adequate legislation in 1999, satisfied most of the demands of the different Third World agencies and had a proper debate? Is this not a classic example of the Department of Finance putting the rubber stamp on it when a decision has been taken in advance of the House discussing it?

The Taoiseach

The Bill will enable us to make payments under the ESAF in respect of the Brazilian package recently put forward by the IMF. That could not be achieved without providing a legislative base. The original legislation which dealt with the Bretton Woods Agreement was short and contained only 11 heads.

Mr. M. Higgins

In defence of the parliamentary process it must be stated that there is something extremely wrong with the introduction of short finance Bills on issues of policy of this sort.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is a debate for another day.

Proinsias De Rossa

I again ask the Taoiseach to indicate how he can justify a gross abuse of power. In breaking——

An Ceann Comhairle

That matter is not appropriate to the Order of Business. The Taoiseach stated that there is no legislation promised in this area.

Proinsias De Rossa

This is not the first time Fianna Fáil has abused its power and left it to taxpayers to foot the bill.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should find another way to raise that matter.

Proinsias De Rossa

Will the Taoiseach indicate whether this was a Government or a unilateral decision? Was that decision taken to guarantee Deputy Blaney's vote?

An Ceann Comhairle

I have ruled this matter out of order and I ask the Deputy to resume his seat. I call Deputy John Bruton.

(Interruptions.)

Mrs. Owen

The Government took its decision to get Deputy Blaney's vote. It broke an agreement to which it was a party.

Proinsias De Rossa

The Government has abused its power.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy John Bruton on the Order of Business.

(Interruptions.)

An Ceann Comhairle

Order, please.

Mr. J. Bruton

In the context of the British-Irish Agreement and the reform of policing, has the Taoiseach considered the possibility of introducing legislation to establish a police authority in this jurisdiction to prevent members of the Garda Síochána being the subject of ministerial or political interference in the course of their duties?

An Ceann Comhairle

Is there promised legislation in this area?

The Taoiseach

No.

An Ceann Comhairle

We will now proceed with the business of the day.

Order of Business agreed to.