Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 17 Feb 1999

Vol. 500 No. 5

Ceisteanna–Questions. - Millennium Steering Committee.

Ruairí Quinn

Question:

1 Mr. Quinn asked the Taoiseach the number of appointments to remunerated posts he has made to the millennium steering committee and other bodies under the auspices of his Department; if these posts were advertised prior to appointments being made; if an approach was made to a person (details supplied) to handle public relations, if so, the terms of the offer made to that person; the terms at which the appointment was finally made; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3400/99]

Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach (Mr. S. Brennan)

The National Millennium Committee, which I chair, is supported by a small millennium office located within the Department of the Taoiseach. This office was set up in the latter half of 1998 and currently consists of the secretary to the committee, who is a full-time assistant principal in the Department of the Taoiseach, a projects development officer and a millennium press officer.

The position of the projects development officer was advertised within the Civil Service at executive officer level. Seven candidates were short listed and interviewed. The successful candidate is on the salary scale level of £17,172. In addition, this officer receives an allowance of £3,000 per year which pertains to the position of projects development officer and will exist for the duration of the millennium commemoration period. The officer's salary and allowances are paid from the millennium subhead in the Vote of the Department of the Taoiseach.

Mr. Tom Rowley was appointed as the millennium press officer with the support of the National Millennium Committee. Mr. Rowley's position is on a contract basis for a period of two years commencing on 15 January 1999. His annual salary is £50,000. An additional performance bonus not exceeding £5,000 per annum is also payable. The amount will be decided by the committee on 1 December 1999 and paid retrospectively. Vouched pension expenses not exceeding £5,000 per annum are also payable. Mr. Rowley's salary and expenses are also paid from the millennium subhead.

Before the position of millennium press officer was filled, I discussed the matter with about a half a dozen different journalists, including the person whose name was supplied by the Deputy and also public relations people whom I felt might be available for such a short-term assignment or might know of a colleague whom they could recommend. I was satisfied this was the best approach to take in the circumstances especially in the short time scale involved.

As regards the offer made to the individual named by the Deputy, we discussed a range of possible salaries. However, matters did not develop to the stage where a formal offer was made.

Mr. Quinn

I thank the Minister of State for his reply. Does he agree he met the journalist in question, who has broken a number of stories seriously damaging to the present Coalition Government, and that an offer of a job for a three year period at a salary of £75,000 was made?

Mr. S. Brennan

I met the journalist in ques tion, as I am sure the Deputy and many Members of House would have. We meet him around the House all the time. As I explained in my press release responding to Deputy Rabbitte's suggestions, there was nothing untoward about that. It was a routine discussion with a journalist in the course of which I pointed out that the millennium was on my agenda and that we were looking for a press officer. He responded to the effect that he might be interested himself and we took it from there.

I remind the Deputy of what the journalist in question said to the press. He said he dismissed the conspiracy theory. He also said that he was offered the job, considered it, and turned it down and that he did not believe it had anything to do with the story he was working on. He did not go along with the conspiracy idea at all. He was offered the job and thought nothing more of it. I am of the same view. I am a bit surprised that anyone, particularly someone of Deputy Rabbitte's experience, would rush into print with a statement suggesting a conspiracy of some sort. If we started to offer journalists jobs to stop them writing stories, we would have about 4,000 people employed in Government Buildings.

Mr. Quinn

Does the Minister of State accept that the final salary agreed for a two year contract with Mr. Tom Rowley was two thirds what was offered to Mr. Jody Corcoran? Why did the Minister of State set a lower price?

Mr. S. Brennan

I did not mention his name but now that the Deputy has put it on the record—

Mr. Quinn

It is in the public domain; I do not believe we are doing the man any disservice.

Mr. S. Brennan

It is. A specific offer was not made at that figure. Mr. Corcoran and I discussed a range of possible salaries but matters did not develop to a stage where a formal offer was made to him at that price. It was always clear that any figures I discussed would be subject to Department of Finance approval. I assure the Deputy that the Department of Finance was not long pulling me up when I perhaps talked bigger figures than I was authorised to do by it.

Mr. Quinn

Does the Minister of State not accept, in the light of all the extraordinary revelations unfolding on a daily basis, that his approach, not through any form of advertisement, to an investigative journalist of the calibre of Jody Corcoran who was unearthing very unhealthy aspects of the past of this Administration, to offer him a job at a price range of £75,000 per annum way in excess of what he currently earns at the Independent Newspapers Group could be reasonably construed, since he is the Government Chief Whip, as attempting, to use his own phrase, to "put a price on his silence" so there would be no more investigative revelations from that journalist? Is that not a reason able construction for people on this side of the House to put on the Minister's actions? Why did the Minister of State not advertise it in the normal way?

Mr. S. Brennan

It is not a reasonable construction, but it might be in the current climate of smoke that is around to attribute—

Mr. Quinn

There is more than smoke. We have the revelations about your former leader and they are not smoke.

Mr. S. Brennan

Is the Deputy suggesting that the Taoiseach or I sought to buy off a journalist?

Mr. Quinn

I am suggesting that the Minister of State had two choices. He could have advertised the post in the normal way with a salary range—

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy must ask a supplementary question.

Mr. Quinn

To use his phrase, he agreed a "possible price".

An Ceann Comhairle

Statements are not in order at Question Time.

Mr. S. Brennan

I would like to know if the Deputy is alleging that the Taoiseach or I sought to compromise a journalist, particularly when the journalist is on the record as saying there was no such thing. Would the Deputy like to answer that question?

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot allow that. Question Time must proceed in the usual way where Members may ask supplementary questions but may not resort to statements.

Mr. Quinn

I am asking a very experienced Minister of State, a former Cabinet Minister, a straightforward question. He is a man with responsibility as Chief Whip on behalf of this Government, including the Taoiseach. Does he not accept his actions in offering a job, which was not advertised, at a price range of £75,000 could be reasonably construed as an attempt to purchase the silence of a particularly effective investigative journalist?

Mr. S. Brennan

Does the Deputy draw that conclusion from it?

An Ceann Comhairle

It is not in order for the Minister of State to ask supplementary questions.

Mr. S. Brennan

The Deputy will not make that allegation in the House. Deputy Rabbitte tried to make it in his statement.

An Ceann Comhairle

This is not the place where allegations should be made.

Mr. G. Mitchell

The Minister of State, who is on a short-term contract, is on much less than £75,000. Was the figure of £75,000 mentioned in the Minister of State's discussions with the five or so other journalists?

Mr. S. Brennan

The committee and I had in mind a total remuneration package in the range of £55,000 to £75,000, inclusive of all expenses, bonuses and pension contributions. This was subject to negotiation and clearance by the Department of Finance. A range of salary options were discussed.

Mr. G. Mitchell

The man who got the job is on £50,000.

Mr. S. Brennan

He did not do as well.

Mr. Rabbitte

When I subsequently checked the matter with the journalist in question he informed me that the Minister of State had offered him £75,000 for three years on the explicit authorisation of the Taoiseach.

Mr. S. Brennan

I will not speak for the journalist in question—

Mr. Quinn

The Minister of State should speak for himself.

Mr. S. Brennan

I spoke to a number of journalists. At no stage was I acting on the instructions of the Taoiseach or anybody else. I was acting on my own initiative in my capacity as chairman.

Mr. Rabbitte

Did the Minister of State offer the journalist in question £75,000?

Mr. S. Brennan

There was no formal offer. A range of possible remuneration packages were discussed. I discussed the matter with perhaps half a dozen other journalists. We managed to secure the services of a fine press officer, Mr. Tom Rowley, former deputy news editor of the Irish Independent.

Mr. Quinn

That is not the issue.

Mr. S. Brennan

I am aware of the construction that can be put on a discussion nowadays but is Deputy Rabbitte alleging that the Taoiseach or I sought to compromise the journalist in question who said that is out of the question?

Mr. Rabbitte

Why was the post not advertised in the way the others were? Why is the officer responsible for the project, as distinct from selling the project outside, being paid £17,172? The journalist in question was offered £75,000. In reply to Deputy Quinn the Minister of State said that we all meet journalists in the corridors of Leinster House. Is it not the case that he invited the journalist in question to dinner—

Mr. S. Brennan

No.

Mr. Rabbitte

—and made the offer at the explicit request of the Taoiseach? As Deputy Mitchell said, is it not the case that £75,000 is more than the Minister of State is being paid? The Minister of State is worth his weight in gold to keep the rickety coalition going. Why is a more senior journalist, certainly in years, and an outstanding candidate for the post being paid little more than half the amount offered to the journalist who is the subject matter of the question?

Mr. S. Brennan

The person who accepted the job, following discussions with the Department of Finance, is being paid £50,000, inclusive of all expenses, pension contributions and so on. A range of possible salary options were discussed with a number of persons whom I thought would be able to do the job properly and would be interested and available at short notice. I took the decision not to advertise the post. I did not discuss the matter with the Taoiseach. I had the support of the committee which approved the appointment and was pleased with the quality of the journalist appointed. There was a short timescale. The previous Government appointed an adviser to the 1798 committee, whom I reappointed. The Deputy is entitled to his opinion but I thought the head hunting route was the better road to take. I did not have dinner with the journalist in question; we had a sandwich—

Mr. Rabbitte

Why did the Minister of State inform Deputy Quinn that he had met the journalist in question in the corridor and invited him to dinner?

Mr. S. Brennan

We had lunch.

Mr. Rabbitte

I do not care if the Minister of State had two sandwiches and crisps. That is not the point.

Mr. S. Brennan

The Deputy is not listening. I said that we all meet journalists in the corridor. I did not seek to compromise the journalist in question at a big dinner; we discussed over a sandwich general political matters, in the course of which it was mentioned that the committee was seeking a press officer on a salary in the range of £55,000 to £75,000 which would have to be sanctioned by the Department of Finance. The figure was quickly reduced to £50,000. The journalist in question expressed an interest and I subsequently decided to offer him the job.

Mr. G. Mitchell

Before or after the sandwich?

Mr. S. Brennan

At no stage was I acting on the instructions of the Taoiseach. On the issue of advertising, we may have received no response or a couple of hundred. It would have been a tortuous process.

Mr. G. Mitchell

For £75,000 the Minister of State might have given him more than a sandwich.

Mr. Quinn

I might accept such naive innocence from a Minister of State appointed less than 20 months ago but not from the Minister of State who is a former general secretary of the Fianna Fáil Party.

Mr. S. Brennan

Is the Deputy making an allegation?

An Ceann Comhairle

This is not a debate; it is Question Time.

Mr. Quinn

As a former Minister who appointed many of his friends to the board of Aer Lingus, is the Minister of State saying that he was unaware—

Mr. S. Brennan

The Deputy made a few appointments, as did Deputy Lowry.

Mr. Quinn

None was fired. Is the Minister of State saying that he was unaware of the restraints that normally apply to the tendering procedure for Department contracts? Is he saying that he specifically invited the journalist in question for a meal'—

An Ceann Comhairle

We have been dealing with this matter for 17 minutes. Other Deputies are waiting for questions to be taken. It would be grossly unfair if one Deputy was to monopolise Question Time. I have allowed the Deputy latitude to ask a brief supplementary.

Mr. Quinn

Is the Minister of State saying categorically that at no stage in his dialogue with the investigative journalist, Jody Corcoran, did the prospect of removing him from the theatre of investigations into the wrongdoings of previous Fianna Fáil Administrations cross his mind?

Mr. S. Brennan

Nonsense.

Mr. G. Mitchell

The Minister of State was hoping it would be a picnic.

Mr. S. Brennan

It did not cross my mind and I do not believe that the Deputy thinks it did.

Mr. Quinn

I used to believe Mr. Haughey was a great businessman who generated his own wealth.

Mr. S. Brennan

I do not know Mr. Corcoran's memory of events but to the best of my memory we had a general telephone conversation which ended up with us agreeing to meet locally, which we did. This spoils the myth a little but it is not quite the same as inviting him to a dinner at which propositions are made that he might get off the Government's back. He is quoted as saying he was amused by the story. He does not have to run for election as I do. I am not amused by the story. I am listening, if Opposition Deputies wish to make an allegation.

Mr. Rabbitte

A Cheann Comhairle, may I make one brief comment?

An Ceann Comhairle

No, the Chair must be respected. We have spent almost 20 minutes on this question and I have called Question No. 2.

Mr. Rabbitte

I accept that, a Cheann Comhairle, but it is only one sentence.

An Ceann Comhairle

The sentence must be a supplementary question.

Mr. S. Brennan

I will reply if it is sound.

Mr. Rabbitte

Is the Minister of State saying that when he invited this journalist for a sandwich—

Mr. S. Brennan

The Deputy was not listening to me.

Mr. Rabbitte

—it was the journalist who offered, as I have noted from the Minister of State's answer to Deputy Quinn—

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot proceed any further on this matter. I ask the Minister of State to proceed to Question No. 2.

Mr. Rabbitte

The Minister of State should go on the record.

An Ceann Comhairle

Will the Minister of State proceed with Question No. 2?

Mr. Rabbitte

Did the Minister of State offer him the job or did he ask for it?

Mr. S. Brennan

I know what the Deputy is at. I have answered his question.

Mr. Rabbitte

The Minister of State has not answered it.

An Ceann Comhairle

Will the Minister of State please take Question No. 2?

Mr. S. Brennan

A serious charge has been made to which I wish to reply. I am not leaving the last word to this new Labour Party which has been resurrected. The Deputy did not listen. Two minutes ago I stated that I was not clear whether he invited me or I invited him. It was a telephone conversation during which we agreed to have a sandwich—

Mr. Quinn

That is not the question.

Mr. S. Brennan

I have answered the question. Deputy Rabbitte stated I invited the journalist. It is not clear; he may have invited me.

Mr. Rabbitte

I did not say that.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot discuss this any further.

Mr. Rabbitte

I am not talking about who invited whom. Did the Minister of State offer him the job or did he ask for it?

Mr. S. Brennan

He expressed an interest in it.

An Ceann Comhairle

Will the Minister of State please obey the Chair and take Question No. 2?

Mr. S. Brennan

I am not having these smears. No allegations have been made on the record.

Mr. Quinn

The Minister of State's behaviour is on the record.

Mr. Rabbitte

The Minister of State has not got away with this.