Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 19 May 1999

Vol. 505 No. 1

Private Members' Business. Great Southern Hotel Group: Motion (Resumed).

The following motion was moved by Deputy Yates on Tuesday, 18 May 1999:

That Dáil Éireann calls on the Government to review the Aer Rianta proposal to dispose of the Great Southern Hotel Group so as to ensure that it is retained as a single commercial entity, with a continuing significant contribution to local economies, and maintaining its tourism sectoral role as a flagship group for both hotel standards and all aspects of CERT training and that, if it is necessary to achieve these objectives, a State shareholding is preserved in the company and full consideration be given to an ESOP as part of any review.

Debate resumed on amendment No. 1:

To delete all words after "That" and substitute the following:

"Dáil Éireann notes that the Ministers for Public Enterprise and Finance are examining the future options for the Great Southern Hotel Group in the context of the report on the future strategic direction of Aer Rianta; that no Government decisions in relation to the future of the hotel group have been taken; that such decisions will only be taken after the fullest consultation, in particular with the staff of the hotels, and with the overriding objective of maintaining and maximising employment; and that the Minister for Public Enterprise will continue to make herself available to meet with the staff of the hotels and their union representatives in that regard.".

– (Minister for Public Enterprise.)

Mr. M. Higgins: I wish to share my time with Deputy Moynihan-Cronin. Deputies Seán Ryan and Howlin are also anxious to contribute but time will probably not allow them to do so. Nevertheless, they very much support the position I outlined yesterday.

Earlier in the debate I spoke about the discrepancy between the contribution of the Great Southern Hotel Group to training in the hotel industry and that of the private sector. One could summarise everything I had to say in that regard in terms of who received funding for training and structural development in the industry and who put money back into it. The figures are quite alarming. In 1997, some 700 hotels contributed 2.13 per cent of the cost of training. In 1998, the figure was 2.08 per cent. Put simply, 700 hotels contributed about £600,000 in two years. In 1997, on the other hand, the State, through the European Social Fund, contributed just under £9 million, and it contributed £10.5 million in 1998. The Department of Tourism, Sport and Recreation contributed £3.3 million in 1997 and £3.5 million in 1998. The figures speak for themselves. The contribution of security to the hotel industry requires a flagship group committed to the provision of good standards of training, employment and service. That is the history of the Great Southern Hotel Group.

In making a contribution to resolve a matter on which I am sure, after the debate, there will be consensus, when the Minister meets the unions tomorrow she should do so with the rather colourful and ideologically driven sentiments of the review group on Aer Rianta out of the way. In other words, she should begin from scratch and try to treat the future of the Great Southern Hotel Group on its own merits.

I want to draw attention to a precedent set here in 1982. I recall being in this very position when we discussed the future of Údarás na Gaeltachta. Provision was made in the House to make an oral proposal that was acceptable to all sides. I did so in relation to Údarás na Gaeltachta and the then Minister for the Gaeltacht, Charles Haughey, accepted that this was the way he would proceed. Why not have an agreement in the same way this evening? That agreement could be managed by Deputy Yates expanding his motion to suggest to the Minister that the Department of Finance should transfer its shareholding to the National Treasury Management Agency in exactly the same way as the NTMA handled £180 million of NET's debt. The NTMA could become the shareholder and provide an enterprise driven directorship or shareholding. It could make a valuation of the group that would enable it to borrow in order to expand and refurbish its hotels. The NTMA could also return to Aer Rianta a fair value for the asset that was being transferred and there would probably be a capital gain for the State.

I am making this proposal as a gesture of good faith in advance of the Minister's meeting with the unions. The Minister knows what is in the report and has heard our contributions. I am sure Deputy Yates will agree with my proposal. If the proposal was supported by all sides of the House, the Minister could have a fruitful meeting tomorrow in the best interests of the workers, the hotel industry and the Great Southern Hotel Group.

Mrs. B. Moynihan-Cronin

I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this important debate. I am proud to support the Great Southern Hotel workers. More than 300 of them work in three of the group's hotels which are located in my constituency of south Kerry. These hotels have acted as flagships for the hotel industry generally. The group has managed to set standards in wages and conditions for staff as well as to provide service for the consumer. The loss of this group to private enterprise would be to the detriment of workers and consumers throughout the industry.

At a time when the hotel sector is facing labour shortages because of the perceived low wages and poor conditions on offer, the demise of the Great Southern Hotel Group, which has done so much to give hotels a good name, would be absolutely disastrous.

There is nothing in the amendment to assure me or the GSH Group workers that the Government does not intend to sell off these hotels. The Government does not have the courage to do so, to make its true colours known, before the local and European elections take place. This is a hare-brained idea which was invented in Dublin for the benefit of Dublin. No consideration was given to the regions. The loss of the Parknasilla hotel in my constituency would be the equivalent of losing a major industry.

The previous sale of hotels in the Great Southern Hotel Group was a disaster, and this would be a disaster also. The price for which they were sold previously was a disgrace. I urge Members to vote against this amendment which would be to the detriment of workers. I support the proposal made by Deputy Michael D. Higgins.

Mr. Howlin

I wish to lend my voice in support of the clear proposal made by Deputy Michael D. Higgins. A frenzy of privatisation has taken place, which has become a credo to which we are all supposed to subscribe. Public enterprise has served the country well. In terms of value to the tourism industry in training alone, nothing can equal the work done by the Great Southern Hotel Group. I have first-hand knowledge of that. On many occasions, I had the privilege of presenting awards to those who had graduated from the training school in the Great Southern Hotel in Rosslare Harbour. It has now become a year-round operation providing quality service to locals and visitors alike. It has set standards of pay in an industry that is certainly not noted for high wages in the private sector.

I urge the Government to think carefully about adding the Great Southern Hotel Group to the privatisation list. The agenda is being driven not for the benefit of the hotels or their workers, but rather for what is perceived to be to the advantage of Aer Rianta which wants a wad of money to invest in the development of Dublin Airport. I wish Aer Rianta well with its plans to expand the capacity of the country's airports, but it should not have free rein to disregard the benefits and intrinsic value of the premier flagship hotel group, its hundreds of workers and the industry that depends on its training potential. I hope the sound proposal of Deputy Michael D. Higgins will attract consensus in the House.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I understand that Deputy O'Flynn is sharing his time with Deputies Browne (Wexford), Pat Carey, Michael Kitt, Daly and Healy-Rae.

Mr. Yates

The real Taoiseach.

Mrs. Owen

The silence has broken.

Mr. O'Flynn

The Great Southern Hotel group was originally made up of railhead hotels, as the Minister pointed out. For some reason lost in the realms of history Cork did not seem to qualify as a railhead in the 1850s when these facilities were first being built. Hotels were built in Killarney, Galway and Sligo and as a leading merchant city perhaps Cork was already well served by hotels. I am glad to note that the Great Southern Hotel group has realised its error and now intends to build a hotel in Cork. This recognises the successful business centre that Cork is today, with modern industries and excellent educational facilities. Cork Airport has marketed itself as the gateway to the south and it is a sign of the times that the new hotel is to be situated at Cork Airport instead of outside the train station. Airports have truly become the gateways of industry, business and tourism and they need to portray the right image. The first impression made on foreign businessmen, investors and tourists is at airports, and first impressions count.

The success of Cork Airport mirrors the economic success of the Cork region. Last year 1.3 million passengers used the airport, which is an increase of 10 per cent on the previous year, and numbers so far this year are up almost 18 per cent on last year. Flights out of Cork to the UK and Europe are full and there is urgent need for additional routes and greater frequency of flights on existing routes. Probably 1.5 million passengers will go through Cork Airport this year and that augurs well for the new hotel.

Despite expanding considerably some years ago, the airport terminal is now reaching capacity again. Aer Rianta has planned a programme of work to expand the capacity of the terminal to enable it to cater for two million passengers. That will not come a moment too soon and will complement the work of improving the runway and apron areas. I understand that a new air bridge, the first ever for Cork Airport, is planned to keep passengers dry as they walk out to their planes.

The new Jack Lynch Tunnel, which is to be opened by the Taoiseach on Friday, will greatly expand the catchment area of the airport. The tunnel will make the airport the choice of people as far away as Waterford, Wexford and Kilkenny, given the excellent roads in that area. I hope to see many more passengers coming from that side of the country to use the airport. It is great to be able to announce that the new tunnel is to be named after the real Taoiseach, Jack Lynch.

Mrs. Owen

What does the current Taoiseach think of that?

Mr. O'Flynn

I am sure all Members send him their warmest regards and hope he makes a full recovery. The new hotel is to be next to the business park, which is another exciting development in the airport area. This reflects the importance of the airport to business and industry and shows that Cork is much more than a tourist destination. Businessmen form a high percentage of Cork Airport's traffic and they expect the best facilities. The new hotel will fill that gap at the airport, as the fullest range of high quality services must be offered to the business community. The new Great Southern Hotel, with 75 bedrooms, a conference centre and meeting rooms, is an ideal addition to the business park development. I wish the Great Southern Hotel group every success with the hotel in Cork. Their reputation is renowned and their hotel will be an excellent addition to the pool of top class hotels in Cork.

I read the Opposition motion.

Mrs. Owen

Deputy O'Flynn will vote for the motion.

Mr. O'Flynn

I also read the Minister's amendment. This is an attempt by the Opposition to scaremonger again.

Mrs. Owen

Has Deputy O'Flynn read it?

Mr. O'Flynn

The Minster has repeatedly said she is considering, assessing and consulting on this matter. When she has considered all the options she will bring her decision to the Cabinet for approval. Like other speakers I pay tribute to the great workers in the Great Southern Hotel Group for the excellent service—

Mr. Howlin

Before dumping them.

Mr. O'Flynn

—they have given to Irish and foreign tourists going back to the 1850s. I thank those who have worked in the hotel industry for their excellent service.

Mr. Howlin

Thank you and goodbye.

Mrs. Owen

They will love Deputy O'Flynn for that.

Mr. Browne

(Wexford): The Great Southern Hotel Group has over 150 years experience in the hotel business. That alone makes it stand out in the Irish hotel industry. It has seen good times and bad and has survived to prosper today. The group has handed on its high standards of service and hospitality to countless hotel and catering trainees who have brought the traditional céad míle fáilte around the world. In doing so they were sowing the seeds of today's incredibly successful tourism industry.

Like other Wexford Deputies, I am aware of the situation regarding the Great Southern Hotel in Rosslare. For many years that hotel operated on a six months basis and CERT took over for the other six months. We are particularly pleased that due to the outstanding efforts of the hotel's management and staff, it operates practically all year round and makes a profit. It is important that this hotel, given the tremendous development of Rosslare Harbour by different Governments, continues to grow and prosper under its present management and work structure.

Mr. Howlin

Hear, hear.

Mr. Browne

(Wexford): The success in Rosslare is repeated in hotels and tourist venues throughout the country. I await with interest the Minister's report to Cabinet, as these hotels should not be sold off as suggested by Aer Rianta. That is Aer Rianta's proposal, not the Minister's.

Maybe I am old fashioned in modern Ireland, where privatisation seems to be the buzzword. This Government, the last Government and the trade union movement have all rushed down that road, but I am not hung up on selling off State assets. To break up and sell off the Great Southern Hotel group would be a total disaster in the economies where the hotels are situated.

Mrs. Owen

One down.

Mr. Browne

(Wexford): It is the only semi-State hotel group in the country, its workers have given excellent service to the public and it is making a profit. Why sell it off?

Mr. Yates

Hear, hear.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Order, please.

Mrs. Owen

It is a major speech. Deputy Browne is about to cross the floor.

Mr. Browne

(Wexford): Every major hotel group here and in Europe is trying to purchase or build hotels. It baffles me that Aer Rianta, which is bringing large and increasing numbers of people into the country, wants to sell off its hotels. The Minister must consider her views on Aer Rianta's proposals. I see no reason the hotels cannot form a stand-alone, semi-State company. France, for example, has State-owned hotels.

The Cabinet should think seriously before it allows the hotels to be sold off. There are 850 tremendous, well paid workers in the group, which is making a profit. If the Rosslare hotel is sold, it will be sold to a private operator in Wexford. We all know the standard of some of the hotels in Wexford and the level of wages paid. Do we want the Great Southern Hotel workers to go into that system? I hope not. I will support the Minister tonight, but if a proposal to sell the hotels comes to the House I will have to seriously consider my position. It is wrong to break up the group and sell off the hotels. I urge the Cabinet to think seriously and to look at the long-term interests of the Great Southern Hotel workers who can play a vital role in the expanding tourism industry.

Mr. P. Carey

There is profound change in the hotel sector and it would be foolish if its future was not considered as the future of other sectors has been. Another record was set for growth in the tourism and leisure industry in 1998. The number of foreign visitors more than doubled between 1991 and 1998, from 2.4 million to 5.4 million. In the same period, foreign earnings trebled from £800 million to £2.3 billion and employment doubled from 60,000 to 124,000. Areas such as my own constituency have benefited greatly from the expansion of the hotel and tourism industry, particularly in the city of Dublin, and the economy of the Dublin region has been greatly enhanced by the expansion of tourism.

For the coming years Bord Fáilte has set ambitious targets predicting that, by the year 2006, annual foreign earnings will reach £3.5 billion and 185,000 will be employed full-time in tourism. One can add to that figure hundreds of thousands of part-time jobs created in the high season. In terms of employment potential, tourism is Ireland's biggest industry. Nationally the number of hotel bedrooms increased from 21,000 in 1990 to 39,000 in 1998, an increase of 86 per cent. Another 4,000 new bedrooms will open in 1999. By the year 2000, the number of hotel bedrooms in Dublin is expected to be more than 12,000 which is an increase of 140 per cent since 1993.

I remember when members of Dublin local authorities wondered if we would ever persuade tourists to stop for even an afternoon in Dublin while they were on their way to the Great Southern Hotels in Killarney, Rosslare or elsewhere. The Great Southern Hotels Group newest hotel at Dublin Airport is undoubtedly a success. It is permanently booked out, open throughout the year and has already been extended. I have known this group for many years. The Killarney Great Southern is not far from where I was born and it was always regarded as a great employer.

Like Deputy Howlin, I had the privilege as chairman of Dublin VEC and associated with the Dublin Institute of Technology, Cathal Brugha Street, of seeing at first hand the work of the Great Southern Hotel. The group is synonymous with quality assurance, high standards, high pay and quality working conditions. Unfortunately, this cannot be said of much of the rest of the hotel sector, although there are exceptions. The Great Southern Hotel Group is a flagship which, in any examination, will be seen as a shining example of how a stand-alone semi-State company can thrive and flourish. Privatisation has a role but it is not the only model of economic development. I would exclude no possibility except the selling of the hotels in the group one by one, primarily because of the dynamic of the group in the Irish tourism industry.

Mrs. Owen

Deputy Carey will be supporting the motion in that case.

Mr. P. Carey

I do not wish to rehearse history but I recall that in 1987 when the Labour Party had left Government, the Fine Gael Party, in a very cavalier fashion, took a decision relating to the Great Southern Hotel Group. It is a great pity that this issue is the subject of such play acting by the Opposition.

The examination of the Great Southern Hotel Group is a positive development. The employees of the group will be able to contribute to that examination. The Minister is a good listener and she has a record of listening, taking advice and then making a recommendation. I believe that course of action will benefit the group, the tourism industry and the economy.

The Great Southern Hotel Group appears to have approximately £32 million available for investment. I would urge the group to build another good quality hotel in the centre of Dublin. The group has been a very good employer with a commitment to training. The group's standards are high and it has a siginificant role to play, which I am sure it will continue to play for a very long time.

Mr. M. Kitt

Among all that has been said and written about the hotel business in Ireland one thing is clear – the hotel sector is desperate to fill the thousands of new jobs created in hotels in the past five years. When Deputy Yates spoke last night about 800 employees of the Great Southern Hotel Group being fearful for their jobs he was indulging in scaremongering of the worst sort. There are not enough workers in the hotel industry and the recruitment and retention of staff is becoming increasingly difficult. The industry must now compete with all industrial sectors to attract new recruits and even look abroad for staff.

Mr. Yates

It is not scaremongering. The Government is closing post offices as well. I heard today that 900 post offices are to close.

Mr. McCormack

Will they close the schools next? There will be nothing left in rural Ireland

Mr. M. Kitt

Certain tourism bodies are now conducting campaigns in secondary schools and on radio to encourage young people to consider the hotel and tourism industry as a career choice. Despite what Deputy Yates said, the employees of the Great Southern Hotel Group, or any hotel, need not be in fear of losing their jobs. The challenge for the industry is not job losses but the opposite. We must find ways to attract, motivate and retain a skilled labour force in the face of increasing competition from other sectors of industry.

I support what the Minister said last night. Employees will, of course, be concerned when there is talk of change but that concern is being addressed by the Minister. She is meeting and talking to the staff and is available to hear their concerns at first hand. She is doing the right thing and should be congratulated for doing so. The idea of consultation is good and I am glad the Minister has visited the Corrib Great Southern Hotel and the Galway Great Southern Hotel. The Great Southern Hotel in Eyre Square is in a prime location, next door to the railway station and with great access to the city.

At the Minister's request, Aer Rianta has commissioned a report and delivered it to her. It is now up to the Minister and the Government to make a decision. In the two Great Southern Hotels in Galway there are fine people giving good service. I know from my visits to other Great Southern Hotels that they are all run very well. I notice that managers are often transferred from one hotel to another in order to gain experience.

Deputy Coveney said last night that he does not oppose the State reducing its role in running the group and that he understands the argument for selling it and raising funds. I agree with some of what the Deputy said but I do not agree that privatisation is always the answer. I was amazed to hear Deputies speak of what might be done with money gained by selling the hotels and suggest that it might be used to develop regional airports. Deputy Ulick Burke specifically wondered if the profit from the Galway hotels would be invested in Galway airport. Deputy Séamus Brennan, when Minister, committed funding for the regional airport in Galway. The Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation maintains that commitment which is very much welcomed.

FÁS announced recently that the organisation is obliged to go outside the country to recruit staff for the hotel industry. This is a clear indication of the employment opportunities in the industry. The Great Southern Hotels have played a pivotal role in training hotel staff through CERT programmes.

Tourism will grow in the west. There will be greater access to the western region which has Objective One status. The Western Development Commission has been established. Funding is available for job creation and there will be many opportunities in hotels such as those of the Great Southern Hotel Group. I support the Minister's efforts to develop the group and to secure the employment of the staff of the hotels.

Mr. Daly

It would be remiss of me not to add my support to the Great Southern Hotel Group and to avail of this opportunity to compliment the staff and management on the excellent service they provide. I am particularly familiar with the Great Southern Hotel in Shannon which provides excellent facilities and is adjacent to the airport. This hotel has made a unique contribution to the overall development of the tourism business in the Shannon area. The Minister recently visited Shannon and announced a £1.8 million investment in the hotel management school. This excellent college which was established by Dr. O'Regan in the 1950s is internationally recognised. Dr. O'Regan recognised that if the tourism product is to be developed, excellent facilities must be provided. The college has made a name for itself internationally. Its graduates are guaranteed a job in any hotel complex in the world.

The changing of deckchairs in recent years has been unfair on management and staff of the Great Southern Hotel Group. It has led to uncertainty, confusion and a lack of confidence on the part of those who manage and work in the hotels. There was a valid case for linking the hotels to Aer Rianta. It would have been better, however, to link them with the national airline. National airlines throughout the world are forming partnerships and alliances, with travel agents among others. The effects of this approach have been felt at Shannon Airport from where Budget Travel has transferred much of its business having entered into an arrangement with an airline.

I passed through the airport about one week ago. There are others in the House who arrived back from Chicago a few days ago. Even though there is an excellent hotel owned by another semi-State company across the apron, the advice of Aer Lingus to those arriving at the airport is that they should stay at a particular hotel in Limerick. Semi-State bodies have never co-operated in providing services. This is blatantly obvious at Shannon Airport.

No one is saying that there will not be a new arrangement. The challenge will be to provide job security and an arrangement that will offer the prospect of expansion, development and investment. The tourism market is buoyant. New hotels and complexes are being developed throughout the country at an accelerating rate. Indecision will lead to a lack of confidence and a fall-off in business.

I urge the Minister to meet the unions quickly to restore the confidence of staff who voiced their concerns to us only one week ago. There is a need for speedy decisions. We should be open, however, to the establishment of links between the new arrangement and the hotel management college whose expertise should be utilised in the provision of training for those involved in the profession. As recognised by Dr. O'Regan in 1951, excellence is of paramount importance if the exciting opportunities to develop the industry are to be availed of. The excellent service provided by the staff of the Great Southern Hotel Group must always be borne in mind. I compliment in particular the staff at Shannon and wish to assure them that the new arrangement can have a prosperous future.

Mr. Healy-Rae

The Killarney, Torc and Parknasilla Great Southern Hotels are in the heart of my constituency of Kerry South. I live half an hour's drive from each of them. They are renowned throughout the world. The Killarney Great Southern Hotel provides at least 127 jobs throughout the year; the Parknasilla Great Southern Hotel, 80 to 100. The Torc Great Southern Hotel provides between 50 and 70 jobs for six to eight months of the year. They also provide CERT courses.

The removal of these hotels from public ownership would result in a significant loss for County Kerry. The loss of the Parknasilla Great Southern Hotel would be a devastating blow to the workforce who live between Kenmare and Caherciveen. It is well known that these hotels have been the flagship of the tourism industry in south Kerry.

The annual report and accounts of the Great Southern Hotel Group will be published in the next few weeks. They will show that profits have increased from £2.9 million in 1997 to approximately £3.6 million in 1998 based on a turnover of £26 million.

I have discussed the future of the hotels with the Minister and received a firm commitment that there will be no fast decision or cheap sale.

Mrs. Owen

It will be a car boot sale.

Mr. Healy-Rae

At my request, the Minister will visit each of the hotels—

Mr. M. Higgins

She has done that already.

Mr. Healy-Rae

—and have up-front discussions with each member of staff.

Mr. Yates

And then exit.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Deputies should desist from interrupting.

Mr. Healy-Rae

The Minister will have open and full discussions with union representatives. I left her in no doubt that I would take a serious view if the hotels are not retained by Aer Rianta. The staff have my full support. I worked in the hotels many moons ago.

Mr. Perry

So did the Minister.

Mr. Healy-Rae

I played a leading role in providing one of the first golf courses in south Kerry at the Parknasilla Great Southern Hotel. At the same hotel I was involved in providing one of the first swimming pools to be attached to a hotel in this country.

I am disappointed I was not in a position to meet the deputation that came to Dublin in the past week to talk to Deputy Higgins about the Great Southern Hotel Group.

Mrs. Owen

Some of us were there too.

Mr. Healy-Rae

I was not there as, unfortunately, I was not in Dublin. Why should I go to Deputy Michael D. Higgins to talk about the hotels when it is he who should come to me? I know much more about the hotels than he does.

I listened carefully to the Minister—

Mr. M. Higgins

SIPTU called the meeting.

Mr. Healy-Rae

—and know her record over the past number of years, particularly the past year, when she did me a great favour by laying a new railway track from Mallow to Killarney to Tralee and by putting a train back on the track instead of the ramshackle system we had until she took action. For these reasons, I am willing to accept the commitment given to me by the Minister this afternoon. I will give a commitment to the staff as regards the retention of these hotels that nobody will convince me now or in the future to let down the people whose homes have been built around the hotels. I will support them and will not walk through any gate which will send them to any other place other than where they rightfully belong – in these hotels.

Mrs. Owen

May I share my time with Deputies Donal Carey, McCormack, D'Arcy, Perry and Clune?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Mrs. Owen

I want to thank Deputy Browne for his supportive speech on behalf of the Fine Gael motion. I have no doubt he will do the right thing and join us in the lobbies. If his speech has meant anything, he must follow it up by voting for the motion and not the amendment. If Deputy Healy-Rae is depending on his conversation with the Minister that she will have an open mind when she meets the staff, I am afraid he will be ready to take a dive in the swimming pool he helped to build. Deputy Healy-Rae knows to his cost that he cannot always trust what the Government will do on his behalf.

Come into the parlour said the spider to the fly. That is a nursery rhyme we all learned as children. The Minister's invitation to the 880 staff of the Great Southern Hotel Group is akin to the spider's invitation to the fly. There was only one outcome for the fly when he went into that parlour. In this instance, the staff feel a decision has already been taken by Aer Rianta and tacitly accepted by the Government that the eight Great Southern Hotels will be sold off in order to provide the resources for future Aer Rianta development.

That is what the Arthur Andersen report said. It states that Aer Rianta should actively consider how to exit the hotel business in the short-term while taking into account its commitment to extensive prior consultation. The Minister's invitation to meet with the staff next Thursday before any final decision is taken is seen, I am afraid, by the staff as nothing more than a public relations exercise as the staff do not feel there is any openness to take their point of view on board and that their point of view is not even on the agenda. The stage is set and they know about what the Minister will talk to them. They feel this invitation is a holding operation. I suspect we will hear nothing more about a decision until 12 June because the European and local elections will be held on 11 June. The votes will be safely in the boxes by 12 June when we will hear about decisions.

At a meeting last week between Oireachtas Members, which I and a number of Fine Gael Members attended, and representatives of the eight hotels, they made the case that they want these hotels to remain as a group with some State involvement. The Dublin Airport hotel is the newest of the Great Southern Hotel Group providing 87 jobs, many of them for local people.

I do not have a clue what the Minister's speech means as most of it is gobbledegook. The Minister said her main consideration is – and this is what she will say when she meets the staff – that she wants to find the right future for the Great Southern Hotel Group which will also be right for the staff in terms of their employment and other rights as well as for the Irish tourism industry. What does that mean? It is as meaningless as the comments and promises she made to the TEAM workers in my constituency, and they knew how much they could believe about the right future and doing the right thing by everybody. The Minister could have done the right thing last night by saying that, despite the Andersen report, the Government had already taken a decision that it would assist Aer Rianta in its future development – and not by selling off the hotels.

CERT has used these hotels for training purposes. There is no ideological reason the State cannot retain an involvement in this chain of hotels. The local authorities in Spain have hotels and the hotels de ville in France are owned by local authorities. Undoubtedly, investment is needed to upgrade the facilities in these hotels, and £38 million has been spoken about. That can be done if the State keeps an interest in the hotels.

The location of some of these hotels is extremely important to local jobs and services not only for those directly employed in the hotel but also for the community and the surrounding businesses. At a time when the Government is hell- bent on closing every post office, it is now threatening the closure of these hotels or, at the very least, selling off individual hotels – cherry picking the sales. The Government must give a commitment on the future of these hotels. The staff said the Minister has already marked out the pitch, set up the goal posts and all she is really offering is a discussion on match strategy and not what game will be played on the pitch.

Mr. D. Carey

I join with other speakers on this side of the House in deploring the methods used by Aer Rianta in the proposal to sell off the Great Southern Hotel Group. This asset was created in areas with little other commercial employment. The Andersen proposal is to sell off this asset and to invest in Dublin Airport by improving and expanding the facilities.

My colleague, Deputy Pat Carey, wants another Great Southern Hotel in the centre of Dublin. In the meantime, the hotels on the western coast will suffer because of lack of patronage. Hotels like Parknasilla will have only seasonal occupation. In case Deputy Healy-Rae has no misgivings about what the Minister said, all he has to do is look at Waterville and he will see that business is seasonal in the hotels there. Parknasilla, because of the State interest, has provided a quality service and is open all year round.

Did the Minister tell Deputy Healy-Rae that the purchasers of the Great Southern Hotel Group will guarantee that Parknasilla will remain open all year round, that there will be continuous employment – which as it enjoys at present – that it will be marketed in the same way, that it will provide the same quality of service and that the same number of local people will be employed? Did she tell him who will purchase it? There can be no guarantees beyond 12 June about this group.

This is essentially a community problem which is being dealt with on a commercial basis. Andersen's wants to get rid of this asset in order to boost the amount of capital available to expand Dublin Airport. The private sector already offered to expand Dublin Airport, but it was rejected. There were proposals by private companies to build more runways but Aer Rianta rejected that. These people applied for planning permission from Dublin County Council and got it but they still did not get a licence. The board of Aer Rianta is taking the soft option to raise capital to expand Dublin Airport. That is what is at issue. It has done this already at the expense of the country, particularly the west.

Everyone in Killarney must remember the guarantee of a former Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications, Deputy Cowen, that nothing would happen to the status of Shannon Airport. The people believed that and thought more Americans would come to Killarney. However, Killarney hoteliers know that the number of Americans going there has dropped by half as a result of the changes. If the business people of Killarney do not understand that selling the Great Southern Hotel and Parknasilla will radically change their economy, there is something wrong.

I join Deputy Daly in praising the quality of the staff in Shannon. If the Shannon hotel is sold, it will be the fourth or fifth time it has changed hands. The staff has already experienced sad times.

Mr. McCormack

I support the motion which calls on the Government to review the Aer Rianta proposal to dispose of the Great Southern Hotels. The group of eight hotels must be kept together and it must remain in the commercial State sector.

I welcome the contributions of the last four Fianna Fáil Deputies. They assured us they will not support any proposal to sell the hotels, although they will support the Minister's amendment tonight. I am disappointed the Independent Deputy who supports the Government has so easily bought the Minister's assurance that she will not sell the hotels at a cheap price. That is not an assurance as that means she has already decided to sell them. She will not sell them at a cheap price because they are a valuable asset.

The Great Southern Hotels play a vital part in the economy of the areas they serve and in the country's tourism interests. Galway is fortunate to have two excellent Great Southern Hotels, the Corrib Great Southern Hotel on the Dublin road, which overlooks Galway Bay and the Clare hills, and the world famous Great Southern Hotel in Eyre Square. These hotels employ more than 250 people in a full-time capacity. I have no doubt if they were put up for sale, they would make several million pounds each. Will those who support the Minister's amendment, particularly the three Ministers of State who represent Galway city, stand idly by and allow those hotels to be sold to put an extra runway at Dublin Airport, as Deputy Donal Carey said? This is an anti-west proposal.

The eight Great Southern Hotels are a unit which enjoy international fame. It makes no sense to dispose of that unit. Any proposal to sell them would be contrary to good business practice as they are a good marketing tool. If an American tourist stays at the Great Southern Hotel in Eyre Square, as most of them do when they are in Galway, and they decide to move to another location, such as Shannon, Dublin, Killarney or Rosslare, they will be directed to the Great Southern Hotel in that area. That unit should not be broken up by a report, the publication of which has been delayed until after the elections on 11 June.

The hotel group is promoted as a unit in its promotion brochures. If these hotels are sold, as four hotels were in the 1970s – one has since closed and the others are not as good as they were – a great asset will be broken up. I rang one of the hotels today and while I was waiting to be put through to the appropriate person I heard an advertisement for the group. If one looks up the telephone directory for the number of one of the Great Southern Hotels, one is advised to consult the other area directories for the remaining hotels in the group. The hotels are promoted as a family. It would be ridiculous to sell them.

Galway is unique in that three Ministers of State represent the city. I appeal to those three outspoken people not to allow the Minister to accept the proposal to sell off the group of Great Southern Hotels, particularly the two outstanding hotels in Galway city.

Mr. D'Arcy

Aer Rianta's proposal to dispose of the Great Southern Hotel group has been inspired by the Government's policy. The Aer Rianta executive summary and recommendations states:

Prevailing Government policy is to withdraw from commercial involvement in semi-State companies. In light of this, there is little possibility of the shareholders making further equity investment in the group.

This is a stark warning to many people. This policy is negative and will do extreme damage to the training provided by the group to young people. The Great Southern Hotels facilitate CERT training and they have made a great contribution to the quality of training of all grades of staff in that industry. This proposal, if implemented, is short-sighted and will prove to be detrimental to the long-term future of the tourism industry. National control of a valuable training centre will be eliminated if we dispose of these hotels.

Recent debates have highlighted a serious shortfall in the availability of staff at all grades in the hotel and tourism industries. It is predicted that tourism will increase by 6 to 8 per cent on an annual basis for the next five years. This clearly indicates the staff requirement for the future. Before this debate I contacted the Dublin Institute of Technology in Cathal Brugha Street to ascertain the current position in terms of demand for staff. It informed me that it has applications for 300 positions of one type or another but it can only deal with 100. That clearly indicates the depth of the problems facing the tourism industry.

Instead of disposing of these national assets, we should invest in and extend their education and training functions. We should invest in our future and build on our strengths, not on our weaknesses. It is easy to dispose of our national assets.

I ask the Minister to clarify the status of the hotel management training course in Shannon. This college has been responsible for providing management training for the majority of today's managers in our top grade hotels. Who will do such training from now on? The Minister did not mention that in her speech. This college has done great work in providing the top management for the hotel industry.

This hotel chain is operating at a profit. Last year it made a profit of £3.5 million on a turnover of £26 million. This was a 20 per cent increase on the previous year. It reflects the buoyancy of Ireland's hotels and the tourism industry. Concern has been expressed by the staff for their future. If the hotels were to be sold individually to independent operators it would result in huge job losses. Some of these hotels have been sold previously and there has been terrible disruption. Given that they are doing well and are profitable what is the reason for selling them? Is it just to get money? Somebody has told the Minister to invest in airports in Dublin.

I come from a constituency in Leinster. Those hotels, which are of great benefit, were built in areas of high employment in the west where they operate successfully. I accuse Aer Rianta and the Government of short-term advantage in securing moneys for airport development at the expense of the hotel and tourism industry, thereby denying thousands of young people quality training and education for the industry. This is short-sighted in the extreme. The Minister has lost the battle in terms of duty free sales. Is it the Minister's policy to make up the shortfall by selling off our hotels to invest in airports?

Mr. Perry

I congratulate Deputy Yates on tabling this motion. The Great Southern Hotel Group shows profits of £3.5 million. I understand the hotels are to be sold off, on the advice of consultants, as part of a review of Aer Rianta's direction which would lead to the airport authorities being privatised and, ultimately, floated on the stock market. The way in which the hotels, which are seen as non-core business, would be disposed of is not clear. I am very concerned about the sale of the hotels.

Proper training provides the perfect platform for people to develop careers within the business or to branch out on their own. The Great Southern Hotel Group has allowed that to happen very successfully in the past. Some 11,000 people who have been trained by CERT are in employment. The difficulty at the moment is the poor image of the hotel industry. The Great Southern Hotel Group has done a great job in changing that image, in training people for a growing industry, and has operated successfully throughout the country. The argument that the hotels are not part of the core business does not stand up. We are talking about the biggest industry in the State, that is, tourism. The consultants said that a better deal would be done by selling the hotels on a piecemeal basis.

The Jury's Hotel Group bought the Doyle Hotel Group for £119,000 per bedroom. Given their viability and location, when these hotels are put up for sale they will be snapped up. Where is the tourism industry and Aer Rianta in all of this? This is a quick method of getting cash. The Government started by privatising Telecom Éireann, now it is the hotel group, what will be next? The closure of post offices has been mentioned. If we cannot operate hotels, the biggest industry in the State, something is awfully wrong. If we are to develop tourism why can we not have hotels owned by the State, or at least the State could be a major shareholder in them. While Aer Rianta, which is in the aviation business, gave millions of pounds to Galway it gave only £100,000 to Sligo airport. Will the money from the sale of the hotels go to Dublin Airport?

Mr. D. Carey

Of course it will go to Dublin Airport.

Mr. Perry

This is unbelievable. The Government was very quick to calculate the mathematics. It is selling off an asset which was made valuable by the staff. I am in business and I know it is the staff who make a business successful. There would not be profits of £3.5 million were it not for good management and a good team of staff who have given life-long service. If the hotel was not making a profit and had to invest £30 million it could borrow from its bankers. The staff have made that hotel group the asset it is today. Previous speakers asked what the staff will get out of the sale? Given that profitability is up to 13 per cent it is a profitable operation. The hotel business is extraordinarily difficult and requires a life-long commitment by staff who are dedicated to the whole operation. It is obvious that customers using the hotels are satisfied, otherwise the profit margins would not be so high.

As Deputy McCormack said, this is a small country. People who come to Ireland to visit Killarney should be advised to tour around and visit areas such as Galway. Some years ago the hotel in Sligo was sold but it is still trading as a hotel. People should be encouraged to tour the country. By selling the hotels on a piecemeal basis, very shrewd operators in the hotel business such as the Jury's Hotel Group will choose the hotel which is suitable to them. Others will also buy hotels. Their sale is a major mistake and a sad signal for this country and Aer Rianta in tourism terms. Aer Rianta must look at other businesses, including tourism development. What has the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation, Deputy McDaid, to say about this? Has his Department made a recommendation? Why should Mr. Andersen's opinion be taken as gospel? Is this Government solely directed by consultants?

Mr. M. Higgins

Yes.

Mr. Perry

That appears to be the case. Has the Government the backbone to say, given that this hotel group is making money, it is not for sale? In the event that it was losing money it could be sold off. A profit of £3.5 million is substantial. This is not the time for a piecemeal sale for £70 million or £100 million. That money will be lost. Aer Rianta has correctly stated if it gets £70 million it will be lost in the ocean and may not even pay for a runway at Dublin Airport. Given that the hotels are doing an extraordinarily good job they should be left alone. The hotels can afford to borrow money to develop the tourism industry.

Ms Clune

I agree with the motion tabled by Deputy Yates. This strikes me as a commercial proposal by Aer Rianta to sell off these flagship hotels. This decision made in Dublin has no consideration for the impact on local communities and is similar to the issue concerning post offices. Some of these hotels provide employment all year round. They can be recommended to tourists where they are guaranteed a service of which we as a nation can be proud.

I do not understand why the Government should consider selling these profitable hotels. With further investment they could be brought up to an even higher standard. Hotels are opening in Dublin every day of the week. However, that is not the case on the western seaboard. We must ensure there are always hotels of high standard in these areas for visitors and, indeed, ourselves. I am a regular visitor to Parknasilla. It is an institution in itself and the staff have been there for many years. None of these hotels would be in the position they are in were it not for years of hard work, commitment and loyalty of the staff. The staff are part of the hotel and have made the hotels what they are today. The staff should be part of any profit-sharing arrangement in these hotels.

What will fill the training gap if the Minister proposes to sell these hotels? If the Minister speaks with all members of staff, as promised, she will be convinced, as we are on this side, of the impact the proposed sale will have on local communities. Where will the training currently provided by the group be made available? Has the Minister considered the service and training these hotels offered over the years and the excellent standards they provided? This aspect should be considered in light of the current position in the hotel industry. If we are serious about tourism, and not only in Dublin, the motion must be accepted by the Minister.

Minister of State at the Department of Public Enterprise (Mr. Jacob)

I listened with interest to the contributions to the debate and I took note of last night's contributions from Deputies Yates, Burke, Deenihan and Higgins, who also spoke this evening. The one point which is clear is that everybody recognises and acknowledges the high standing and reputation of the Great Southern Hotel Group. This is a tremendous tribute to the staff and management of the hotels, the chairman, Mr. Noel Hanlon, and the chief executive, Mr. Eamon McKeon, who is also chairman of CERT, the training body for hotels, catering and tourism. The speakers also recognised the great contribution that this hotel group has made to the development and training in the sector. I will return to that point and address some of the issues raised.

It is also clear that at present the Great Southern Hotel Group is operating successfully. Its turnover is increasing, its profits are up and it is developing its network through further investment. We have heard about the new hotel in Dublin, the planned hotel in Cork and the extensions to the opening seasons of many of the resort hotels.

I reiterate what the Minister said last night. It is right and proper at this time to review the future strategic direction of the Great Southern Hotel Group just as it is right and proper to review the future strategic direction of its parent company, Aer Rianta. Long-term strategic planning, which is what this process involves, is best done when times are good rather than at times of crisis. Planning under pressure is not to be recommended. It is too much influenced by the immediate problem and fails to take the long view sufficiently into consideration.

We do not always have the luxury of choosing the ideal time to carry out a strategic review. However, in the case of Aer Rianta and the Great Southern Hotel Group, we have that luxury and the Minister is to be applauded for her foresight when, last August, she called on Aer Rianta to put forward its views for the long-term strategic future of the group of companies.

The role of the Great Southern Hotel Group in training needs to be clearly understood. We all recognise the pioneering role played by these hotels in the early days of tourism in Ireland. Several Deputies referred to that aspect. CERT, which is the national body for training in this industry, rents one of the Great Southern Hotels, the Torc in Killarney, when it is closed in the off-season to run practical training programmes. CERT also uses another hotel in the area for the same purpose. In both cases, it is a business arrangement entered into on the basis of a competitive tendering process. CERT is the body charged with training for the hotel, catering and tourism industry, not the Great Southern Hotel Group, and CERT is doing an excellent job.

CERT's role is to co-ordinate the training of all personnel, including new industry recruits and personnel already employed in the tourism and hospitality sector. Last year, in partnership with industry, CERT trained more than 11,500 people and that figure is set to rise again this year. Well trained, highly motivated staff are essential to the continued success of the tourism industry of which Great Southern Hotels make up a small but important part.

To return to the main issue, Aer Rianta and the Great Southern Hotels are separate companies operating in separate business spheres and it is important to recognise that in undertaking the review process. They need to be examined separately and not as one unit. The review process the Minister has in progress on Aer Rianta's future direction is primarily about Aer Rianta and this will remain the main focus of that work. Aer Rianta has retained the consultants, Arthur Andersen, to do further work, specifically on the options for the Great Southern Hotels. They will hear the views of the staff and management of the hotels as part of that exercise. While that work is in progress, the Minister will make herself available to hear directly the views of the staff of the hotels and to listen to their rightful concerns. That is the right and proper thing to do.

It is only when that process has been exhausted that the Minister will be in a position to arrive at a conclusion and to formulate recommendations to Government. As that review process is still under way, it is futile to ask the Minister, or me, to pre-empt matters by stating at this time what those recommendations will be. The main consideration, as we already said, and the framework for any decision will be in terms of finding the right future for Great Southern Hotels in a way that will also be right for the staff and the tourism industry. We want to position both companies, Aer Rianta and the Great Southern Hotel Group, to the best advantage in terms of serving the widest economic interests of the country. This includes making proper provision for the future developmental needs of the Great Southern Hotel Group.

I am confident that any decisions arrived at by Government will lead to a full and promising future for the hotels of the Great Southern Hotel Group and their staff and that it will contribute to the further enhancement of the hotel and tourism sector.

Mr. Connaughton

I wish to share my time with Deputy Kenny and Deputy Yates.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Mr. Connaughton

Any proposal by Aer Rianta to dispose of the Great Southern Hotel Group should be treated with great caution. The value of the Great Southern Hotel Group to the enhancement of tourism and training should not be underestimated. Over many years I have noticed the high standard of Great Southern Hotels. This is the hallmark of the group and the hotels have maintained consistent standards.

Great Southern Hotels are not the only hotels which provide high standards but they have a unique niche in the market, particularly regarding overseas tourism. This aspect should not be forgotten. I congratulate the management and staff of the Great Southern Hotel Group but particularly those in the two I know best, the Corrib Great Southern Hotel and the Galway Great Southern Hotel.

The financial position shows that the hotel chain has done very well since Aer Rianta took over in the early 1990s. It did particularly well last year. The basic anxiety on the part of staff in all the hotels I contacted is that the hotels will be off-loaded as individual units to commercial enterprises and that the hotels' ethos and niche in the industry may be downgraded. This is the major difficulty people working in the hotels have with the proposal. They are concerned that the hotels may be only a pale shadow of what they were in the past, although this depends on what the new owners want to do with them.

Whatever happens, the future of the Great Southern Hotel Group should be well thought out. If nothing else, the debate will ensure that people will rethink the proposal. It is fine for the consultants, Arthur Andersen, to come up with this proposal, but much more is involved than the issues contained in the stark report. One of the reasons the Great Southern Hotels have done so well since 1990 is that they received large tranches of investment in the late 1980s and early 1990s. The hotels were not doing too well before this money was put in, mainly because they did not have access to necessary investment. The hotels were modernised and are now at a very high standard. A conference centre was added to the Corrib Great Southern Hotel in Galway. This is an example of the amenities now provided by the hotels. The group is a flagship in the industry and the ethos of the hotels is important to the tourism industry. It should not be frittered away.

In common with most of my colleagues, I am against breaking up the Great Southern Hotel Group. I do not understand why Aer Rianta must sell the hotels. A good deal of thought must be given to what will be done with the money raised by the sale. Most people agree that the hotels should not be sold off individually under any circumstances. The good aspects of the group would be lost if that happened.

My information is that the other big hotel chains, including Jury Doyle's and Ryan's, are not interested in acquiring the eight hotels in the Great Southern Hotel Group as a unit. This leads one to wonder who would buy it? From where are the new owners likely to come? Why would they purchase the hotels? The Government will have to show great care in that regard. If the hotels are sold and the proceeds buried in, for example, Dublin Airport, it is highly unlikely that type of expenditure would be invested in areas which would need it most, such as regional airports and other facilities. The amount of money likely to be generated from the sale of this group is insignificant in terms of Aer Rianta's investment programme. It is strange that this possibility is raised at a time when the group is doing well, has money for re-investment and is not in the position in which it was ten years ago. SIPTU and the other unions are extremely worried and I hope there will be a great deal of consultation on this issue.

The word should go back to the Minister, the board and the consultants that we see no reason for this to happen at this time. The group has a niche in the market and it is doing well. It is good for tourism and the staff and management of the hotels to keep them as they are.

Mr. Kenny

The Government amendment to Deputy Yates's motion has conceded that these hotels will be sold, which begs the question whether it is right to sell them. I listened with interest to the comments of a number of Deputies on this matter over both evenings. When the Great Northern Hotel in Bundoran was sold to the McEniff group in recent years, after a decision of the board, that private investment was seen to be a huge success. That is one of a number of hotels owned by that group. On the other hand, the Great Southern Hotel in Mulrany was sold to a number of owners for tax and other purposes and now stands derelict. It is an eyesore and a blight on a beautiful location, its redevelopment having been turned down by An Bord Pleanála following an objection by An Taisce.

Why do people come to this country? Tourism is the fastest growing industry in the world; it is one of the strongest but also one of the most fragile. To facilitate tourism throughout the world one finds modern skyscraper hotels built from glass, etc. The Great Southern Hotel group has a solidity and permanence which is the essence of Irishness.

When I had the privilege of being Minister for Tourism and Trade the Department commissioned the University of Limerick to analyse 8,000 tourist itineraries in Ireland. It considered where they came from, where they visited, what they spent, etc. On leaving, when tourists were asked what one thing they would remember about Ireland, the inevitable answer was, "meeting the Irish people".

It is in this light we must decide whether this is worth doing. We might get some money from it but in terms of the essence of having a tourism industry, the Great Southern Hotel group has a tradition which cannot be bought for love or money. The group may be bought by an international company, many of which contract out services to people from abroad. I do not run down the quality of their work but if the group were staffed by people from Africa, say, the guests would not meet the Irish experience. The building might be the same but it is what is inside it, the living tourism entity, which makes the difference.

Tourism will not always be as successful as it is now. There are times when it takes a dip as a result of international crises, inflation rates, or people being adventurous and travelling to new places. For a small country Ireland has had a disproportionate impact on world tourism. People coming here see a country where modern tourism is booming but there is still a strong sense of tradition, which has been and is being provided by the Great Southern Hotel group. This requires a good employer, care for employees, good wages and a clear career path with permanence and the possibility of promotion. There is merit in Deputy Yates's proposal and Deputy Michael D. Higgins proposal should also be considered.

Mr. Yates

I thank all Deputies who spoke in this debate, which made clear the deep significance of tourism to the economy, specifically the local economies of the eight hotels in the Great Southern Hotel group. I was utterly disappointed with the Minister's contribution. We heard about her romantic trysts in the leafy glades of Mulrany and how, on her trips to Valentia, it was obligatory for her to stop in the Great Southern Hotel in Killarney – a lot of guff – but there was nothing else. This is the third Private Members' motion on which the Minister spoke and then left the Chamber, which I deplore. She is so interested in consultation that she does not want to hear the views of Deputies who represent the workers she is so anxious to consult. Neither was her Department over-represented by officials during this debate.

Specific straightforward issues were put to the Minister. Will she retain the group as a single entity? Will she give the employees a shareholding option, as is being given to employees of Aer Lingus and Telecom? Is she prepared to guarantee the investment for the future development of this hotel, a minimum of £33 million for the next five years? Is she prepared to maintain the hotels' standards and commitment to training? She answered none of these questions. The Minister's contribution was an escape from reality and we heard more of the same from the Minister of State. She used the SIPTU meeting later this week as an excuse not to say anything here although the needs of those people are being articulated in this debate.

The best analogy for the present position is a landowner faced with a compulsory purchase order. The hotel group has been told it will be sold. All that is to be agreed is the price and to whom it will be sold. There is considerable merit in changing that position by adopting Deputy Michael D. Higgins' proposal to allow the National Treasury Management Agency to act as a holding company, at a minimum, to decide the best secure future for the group and its employees. To avoid a vote all the Minister has to do is give her assent.

I am sorry Deputy Healy-Rae has left because I have some friendly advice for him. I have been in this House for 18 years and I have seen many Independent Deputies come and go. The surest way to go is to say one thing in one's constituency and to vote for the opposite position in the Dáil. That is what Deputy Healy-Rae is doing, he is accepting the Minister's guff as a substitute for a commitment to the job security and future of the workers of the Great Southern Hotel group. Almost 1,000 people have given the best part of their lives in the interest of this business, they have turned it around and put it into profit, yet they do not get even the mildest reassurance, just the Minister's wonderful gesticulations about consultation.

This issue will not go away. As with issues like sub-post offices and bus fare increases, the Government is hoping to get past 11 June. It is like the Taoiseach's varying accounts of events – he wants to get through the day in question or to win a Wednesday night motion. No sooner will the elections be over than the post offices will close, bus fares will increase and the Great Southern Hotel group will be sold. That is not acceptable. I am glad about one thing. If nothing else comes from the 4 p.m. meeting today and the meeting with SIPTU tomorrow, the way Noel O'Hanlon said the State had no business making beds and washing dishes means that this type of simplistic nonsense will be discarded as the way to proceed. There will be proper commercial and employee consideration and we will act in their best interests. This debate, if nothing else, will put the brakes on Aer Rianta's gallop.

I regret the Government cannot accept the motion and I deplore the Independent Deputies' failure to respond to it. I assure the Minister and SIPTU that we will be extremely vigilant. The usual old guff just will not do on this issue.

An Ceann Comhairle

I must now put the question.

Mr. M. Higgins

On a point of order, is it in order to ask whether the oral proposal for a consensus that would avoid a vote would be accepted by the Government? Will the Minister of State indicate the Government's response?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair has the Government's amendment before it.

Mr. M. Higgins

The precedent was set in 1982 when the House would have divided on the subject of a semi-State body. It was open at that stage for those proposing an amendment to accept an oral proposal. If the Government agrees, we can avoid a vote.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair has no other proposal before it aside from amendment No. 1.

Mr. M. Higgins

The offer has been made to the Government. If it agrees to the proposal being made, we can avoid a vote.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair has not heard the Government agree. I must put the amendment.

Amendment put.

Tá

Ahern, Dermot.Ahern, Michael.Ahern, Noel.Ardagh, Seán.Blaney, Harry.

Brady, Johnny.Brady, Martin.Brennan, Matt.Brennan, Séamus. Browne, John (Wexford).

Tá–continued

Byrne, Hugh.Carey, Pat.Collins, Michael.Cooper-Flynn, Beverley.Cowen, Brian.Cullen, Martin.Daly, Brendan.de Valera, Síle.Dempsey, Noel.Dennehy, John.Doherty, Seán.Ellis, John.Fahey, Frank.Fleming, Seán.Flood, Chris.Fox, Mildred.Gildea, Thomas.Hanafin, Mary.Haughey, Seán.Healy-Rae, Jackie.Jacob, Joe.Keaveney, Cecilia.Kelleher, Billy.Kenneally, Brendan.Killeen, Tony.Kirk, Séamus.Kitt, Michael.Kitt, Tom.Lawlor, Liam.

McCreevy, Charlie.McDaid, James.McGuinness, John.Martin, Micheál.Moffatt, Thomas.Molloy, Robert.Moloney, John.Moynihan, Donal.Moynihan, Michael.Ó Cuív, Éamon.O'Dea, Willie.O'Donnell, Liz.O'Donoghue, John.O'Flynn, Noel.O'Hanlon, Rory.O'Keeffe, Batt.O'Keeffe, Ned.O'Kennedy, Michael.O'Malley, Desmond.O'Rourke, Mary.Power, Seán.Roche, Dick.Ryan, Eoin.Smith, Brendan.Smith, Michael.Treacy, Noel.Wade, Eddie.Wallace, Dan.Wallace, Mary.Wright, G. V.

Níl

Ahearn, Theresa.Barnes, Monica.Barrett, Seán.Bell, Michael.Belton, Louis.Boylan, Andrew.Bradford, Paul.Broughan, Thomas.Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).Bruton, Richard.Burke, Liam.Burke, Ulick.Carey, Donal.Clune, Deirdre.Connaughton, Paul.Cosgrave, Michael.Coveney, Simon.Crawford, Seymour.Creed, Michael.D'Arcy, Michael.Deenihan, Jimmy.Dukes, Alan.Durkan, Bernard.Ferris, Michael.Finucane, Michael.Fitzgerald, Frances.Flanagan, Charles.Gilmore, Éamon.

Hayes, Brian.Higgins, Jim.Higgins, Joe.Higgins, Michael.Howlin, Brendan.Kenny, Enda.McCormack, Pádraic.McGahon, Brendan.McGinley, Dinny.McGrath, Paul.McManus, Liz.Mitchell, Olivia.Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.Naughten, Denis.Neville, Dan.Noonan, Michael.O'Shea, Brian.O'Sullivan, Jan.Perry, John.Rabbitte, Pat.Reynolds, Gerard.Ring, Michael.Ryan, Seán.Shatter, Alan.Sheehan, Patrick.Stagg, Emmet.Stanton, David.Timmins, Billy.Yates, Ivan.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies S. Brennan and Power; Níl, Deputies Barrett and Ferris.

Amendment declared carried.

Motion, as amended, put and declared carried.