asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform whether his Department has received any application for visas from members of the Yugoslav national football side; whether the Government intends to grant such visas if, and when, applications are received; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Private Notice Question. - Visa Applications.
I understand that visa applications from members of the Yugoslav football team were submitted to the Irish embassy in Athens this morning. As the Deputy will be aware, there is widespread concern at the continuation of sporting links with Yugoslavia given the present situation. The Government shares with EU countries the view that UEFA should be asked to call off sporting links with Yugoslavia.
The EU General Affairs Council, at its meeting yesterday, expressed disappointment that some major sporting events are still taking place and called on international sporting organisations in Europe, notably UEFA, to reconsider decisions which would permit such sporting fixtures. This morning, following the proposal of the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation, Deputy McDaid, EU Sports Ministers, meeting in Paderborn, Germany, reiterated the statement of the General Affairs Council. The Government asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation to bring this statement to the attention of UEFA, with particular reference to the match scheduled for Saturday next and this has been done.
I hope that UEFA will make a response in line with the wishes of the Council of Ministers and the Government. If that does not happen, my col leagues and I will consider what further action to take.
Does the Minister agree that, in view of the atrocities currently taking place in Yugoslavia and in the context of the decision of the International War Crimes Tribunal last week on the Yugoslav leadership, it is totally unacceptable and untenable that this match should go ahead? Will he assure the House that if UEFA does not take the courageous decision, upon which it is balking, the Government will not be found wanting and visas will not issue to Yugoslav players and officials to enter this country? Will he further assure the House that Ireland will clearly state that what is happening in Yugoslavia must come to an end and it will not help this regime, which uses football within its military establishment to promote its decadent and brutal leadership?
I agree with the Deputy that everybody deplores what is happening. I hope UEFA will heed the strong call from the EU and the strong public feeling that there should not be sporting contacts with Yugoslavia because of the illegal and appalling actions of the Yugoslav regime against the people of Kosovo. We should give UEFA the opportunity to come into line on this. If it does not do so, my colleagues and I will immediately consider how to react. Naturally, I would prefer to see a sporting body like UEFA act responsibly in this kind of matter. Deputy O'Shea will understand that if I were to say at this juncture that the Government would grant the visas, that would give a very clear signal to UEFA that we did not share the views of our European colleagues, which is not the case. On the other hand, if I were to say the visas would be refused by the Government, there would be no point in asking UEFA to make a decision. Prudence and courtesy dictate that we await UEFA's decision, but I assure the Deputy that my colleagues and I will consider the matter further if UEFA decides to ignore the various international calls made on that body.
What will the Minister recommend to Government in the event of UEFA not grasping this nettle? Will he recommend that it should adopt a leadership role, whatever the consequences in a sporting sense? The team does not want to play and most people do not want the game to go ahead. Whatever the consequences, is the Minister prepared to recommend to Government that this game should not go ahead and that visas should not be provided for the players? Will he tell the House what he will recommend to the Government?
As always, I will make my views known at the Government meeting and the Government will take a collective decision at that meeting. As I have said, the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation, Deputy McDaid, has been in contact with UEFA. He wrote to that body's general secretary and attached an extract from the conclusions of yesterday's meeting of EU Foreign Ministers in Brussels. The Minister and others have made their views clearly known to UEFA and the preferable course of action is to await UEFA's decision. When that decision becomes clear the Government will consider the matter further. I cannot go any further than that at this time.
Is it not the case that if the visas are refused, Ireland will forfeit the points and, perhaps, that is the reason he will grant the visas?
Deputy Gormley is entering the realms of speculation.
On a point of order, the FAI has confirmed that.
That is not a point of order.
I have made it perfectly clear, from my perspective and that of the Government, that the Government will take whatever action it deems necessary following UEFA's decision. No more can be expected of me at this time. The international community has made its position known to UEFA and the Government's position is clear. It is clearly more preferable that sporting bodies take decisions such as this themselves and if they do not, the Government will meet again. I have already said I can go no further than that.
(Dublin West): While it is correct that a brutal regime such as that of President Milosevic should be isolated, does the Minister agree Ireland should not turn a blind eye to the carnage among innocent civilians caused by NATO cluster bombs in sanatoria and old folks homes—
The question refers specifically to visas. We are not debating the wider conflict today.
(Dublin West): I know that, but as we are talking about visas for one brutal regime—
The Deputy should confine his questions to visas.
Did the FAI not make it clear in discussions with the Minister that if he refused visas, it would have consequences in terms of the loss of points and that this could be a factor in his decision?
Deputy Gormley is very well up on football.
Is it not the case that the Minister may grant the visas because Ireland could lose points?
I have had no discussions with the FAI on this matter. My Department's function in this regard is to consider the granting or refusal of visas. The issue of foreign policy is a matter for the Department of Foreign Affairs. The decision on what should happen if UEFA does not act in accordance with the wishes of the international community will be made collectively by the Government. That will be made clear in the event of that becoming necessary.
Does the Minister agree UEFA has scored a major own goal by not yet postponing or abandoning this match? Why has the Minister had no discussions with the FAI? He should have been in contact with that organisation about this matter weeks ago. Has the Minister or the Taoiseach had any direct contact with UEFA on behalf of the Government to express its concern at this match taking place?
As I said, the Minister, Deputy McDaid, has written to UEFA outlining the position of the EU Ministers.
When did he write?
The question of granting or refusing visas is clearly not a matter for the FAI. It is a matter for the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. I understand the Minister, Deputy McDaid, is attending a meeting of EU Sports Ministers in Germany and I believe he secured an agreement from his colleagues to have a special discussion of this issue this morning. He called on the meeting to reaffirm yesterday's decision of EU Foreign Ministers and I understand he received strong support for that proposal and that the meeting reiterated the statement of the Foreign Ministers. I understand the Minister and his colleagues will confirm their position when they meet the Presidents of FIFA and UEFA, who are scheduled to visit that meeting of EU Sports Ministers tomorrow.
Does the Minister agree it will send out an appalling message from this State if this match takes place next weekend? I understand the Minister, Deputy McDaid, communicated the Government's concerns only yesterday. Why was that not done weeks ago? This match has been fixed for months.
It appears Deputy Shatter is not following this matter as closely as he might, as the Government issued a press statement on 11 May—
I am referring to direct action, not press statements for the newspapers.
—which expressed surprise and disappointment at the decision of UEFA that the European Championship qualifying match between Ireland and Yugoslavia should take place in Dublin on 5 June. In addition, UEFA's decision was made despite the fact that on 26 April EU Foreign Ministers decided to encourage member states and sporting organisations not to arrange international sporting events with the participation of Yugoslavia, given the illegal and appalling actions of the Yugoslavian regime against the people of Kosovo.
The position is clear. We are awaiting the decision of UEFA and when that is forthcoming the Government will decide what it will do and that decision will be made very clear.
Does the Minister agree there is one morally correct course of action, namely, the match should not go ahead? Various governmental and sporting agencies are refusing to act decisively and time is running on. Will the Minister recommend to the Government that visas not be granted? Does the Government have the courage to do what is right in the face of the outrageous atrocities being committed in Kosovo?
The Minister answered the question three times.
Deputy Woods was not here. How would he know that?
I have answered Deputy O'Shea's question and I have explained the position. It is the function of UEFA to make a decision in this matter and that has been made very clear to the association on a number of occasions. My view will be made known to the Government, as is appropriate, and the Government will take a collective decision, following UEFA's decision.
When did the Government, as representative of the host country, first make representations to UEFA?
Yesterday.
On 11 May last, the Government issued a press statement which expressed its surprise at the decision of UEFA that the European Championship qualifying match between the Republic of Ireland soccer team and Yugoslavia should take place in Dublin on 5 June. This was quite clear.
The Minister communicated with UEFA yesterday.
At an EU Foreign Ministers meeting on 26 April, a decision was made that member states and sporting organisations should be encouraged not to arrange international sporting events with the participation of Yugoslavia. I have explained that situation in detail. It is open to the Government to refuse visas to the Yugoslav team.
What does the Minister recommend?
When did the Government first make representations to UEFA?
The Deputy is repeating a question that has already been asked.
When does the Minister think UEFA first knew of the Government's position?
I suggest that Deputy Rabbitte ask UEFA that question. Applications for these visas were received in Athens this morning.
Did the Minister not know the applications were coming?
Did the Minister not know the match was taking place?
A decision has not been taken in relation to issuing visas. If the visas are not granted the match cannot take place. This is primarily an issue for the sporting organisation, UEFA, and I hope we will hear from that organisation.
The issuing of visas is a Government matter.
In deference to our European colleagues, we shall await the decision of UEFA in this matter before proceeding further.
(Mayo): Does the Minister believe that UEFA listen to his utterances on Radio Kerry and his statements to The Kerryman? Does he agree that, instead of attaching himself to the coat tails of UEFA, he should take a political and principled stand? The Minister holds the weapon of refusing to issue visas. If visas are not issued the match cannot take place. That would send a clear message to Mr. Milosevic that his massacres are unacceptable.
The Deputy must ask a question. He is making a statement.
(Mayo): The Minister should not allow the issuing of visas in the light of the appalling atrocities committed in Kosovo.
Everyone condemns the appalling atrocities. I would have expected Deputy Higgins to take seriously the Government statement of 11 May. A sovereign Government does not make a statement of that kind lightly. I realise the Government has the power to refuse visas but the matter is primarily a matter for UEFA. Following on the decision of that body, the Government will meet and come to a clear decision.
The Minister has delegated a Government function to a football association.
Listening carefully to the Minister and following the labyrinthine course of his remarks, I deduce that the Minister would prefer if the match did not take place. Why is he not prepared to say this? Why is he not prepared to say what he will recommend to the Government? I suggest that he follow the well established precedent of the Minister of State, Deputy Wallace, who has no hesitation in telling us what she will recommend to the Government.
The Minister should stop kicking to touch and tell us what he will do.
The Government has made its view well known at EU level. The Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation has made it clear to UEFA that he would prefer if the game did not take place. I would prefer that too. One must recognise that the question of the issuing of visas is central. It is for UEFA to make a decision in this matter. That is the sporting organisation charged with the administration of the competition. That must be clear to everybody.
What contact has the Minister had with his fellow justice Ministers in the EU? Will he contact them with a view to establishing a common position on the issuing of visas to the Yugoslav team for entry to the European Union? Will he seek the agreement of the Ministers to refuse visas to the Yugoslav team? Such an agreed stand would oblige UEFA to adhere to the request to ban the match.
It would be very difficult to gain such an agreement.
If the Minister continues to beat about the bush his European colleagues will not know what he is talking about.
Once UEFA makes its position known, the Government will meet and make its decision known.
Written Anwers follow Adjournment Debate.