Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 23 Jun 1999

Vol. 506 No. 6

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

It is proposed to take No. 2, British-Irish Agreement (Amendment) Bill, 1999 – Committee and Remaining Stages (resumed); No. 8, motion re Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty; No. 9, motion re Agreement between the European Community and the United States of Mexico; No. 10, motion re Agreement between the European Community and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan; No. 11, motion re Agreement between the European Community and the Republic of Korea; No. a7, Regional Technical Colleges (Amendment) Bill, 1999 – Instruction to Committee; No. 40, Regional Technical Colleges (Amendment) Bill, 1999 – Committee and Remaining Stages; No. 3, Courts (Supplemental Provisions) (Amendment) Bill, 1999 – Order for Second Stage and Second Stage.

It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. tonight and business shall be interrupted not later than 10.30 p.m. tonight; the proceedings on No. 8, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion after 60 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply: the opening speech of a Minister or Minister of State and the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party and the Labour Party shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case, the speech of each other Member called upon shall not exceed five minutes in each case, Members may share time and a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed five minutes; Nos. 9, 10 and 11 shall be moved and debated together and the proceedings thereon, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion after 60 minutes by one question which shall be put from the Chair and the following arrangements shall apply: the opening speech of a Minister or Minister of State and the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party and the Labour Party shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case, the speech of each other Member called upon shall not exceed five minutes in each case, Members may share time and a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed five minutes; and, No. a7, shall be decided without debate. Private Members' Business shall be No. 57, Prevention of Corruption (Amendment) Bill, 1999 – Second Stage (resumed), to conclude at 8.30 p.m. tonight.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are four proposals to put to the House. Is the proposal for the late sitting agreed?

Mr. J. Bruton

I have no problem with the time arrangements for today's business. However, I object to No. 3, the Courts (Supplemental Provisions) (Amendment) Bill, 1999, being ordered.

An Ceann Comhairle

The current proposal relates to the late sitting.

Mr. J. Bruton

I do not wish to object to the Order of Business but I would ask the Taoiseach to agree not to order the Courts (Supplemental Provisions) (Amendment) Bill, 1999, until such time as the report of the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality and Women's Rights, which is at an advanced stage of preparation, is presented to the House. If the Taoiseach can accede to that request, I have no problem agreeing to the Order of Business but if he cannot accede to it, I cannot agree to the Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

The Government wishes to order and take Second Stage of the Bill today. I understand the report referred to is in draft form. Hopefully, it will become available during the course of the debate on the Bill either this week or next week. We must proceed with the Bill because of time constraints.

Mr. J. Bruton

What time constraints?

The Taoiseach

The House will rise next week and we want to ensure the Bill is dealt with by then.

Mr. J. Bruton

Why, what is the rush?

Mr. Howlin

The committee has worked in a very non-partisan way to address an issue of concern to all Members of this House and to the public at large. It would be very helpful to the debate on the Bill if the committee's report were available. Substantial amendments, some of which have not yet been circulated, are being tabled to the draft report by all parties.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot have a debate on this matter. The proposal before the House relates to the late sitting.

Mr. Howlin

The report should be finalised in the near future. I support Deputy Bruton's request that the debate on the legislation be delayed until such time as the report is finalised.

Mr. J. Bruton

That is a reasonable request for the Opposition to make.

The Taoiseach

If the report becomes available, which it will in the near future, it may form part of the debate on the Bill. The Bill will be debated this week and next week. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and I indicated last week that this legislation must be passed before the summer recess.

Mrs. Owen

Why?

An Ceann Comhairle

It is completely out of order to proceed with a debate on this matter.

Mr. J. Bruton

What does the Taoiseach mean when he says that the legislation must be passed?

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot proceed with this discussion on which I have already allowed too much latitude.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

The House is being treated like a rubber stamp.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for the late sitting agreed?

Question put: "That the proposal for the late sitting be agreed."

Tá

Ahern, Bertie.Ahern, Dermot.Ahern, Noel.Andrews, David.Blaney, Harry.Brady, Johnny.Brady, Martin.Brennan, Matt.Brennan, Séamus.Briscoe, Ben.Byrne, Hugh.Callely, Ivor.Carey, Pat.Collins, Michael.Coughlan, Mary.Cowen, Brian.Cullen, Martin.Davern, Noel.de Valera, Síle.Dempsey, Noel.Dennehy, John.Ellis, John.Fahey, Frank.Fleming, Seán.Flood, Chris.Foley, Denis.Fox, Mildred.Gildea, Thomas.Hanafin, Mary.Haughey, Seán.Healy-Rae, Jackie.Jacob, Joe.Keaveney, Cecilia.Kelleher, Billy.

Kenneally, Brendan.Killeen, Tony.Kirk, Séamus.Kitt, Michael.Lenihan, Brian.Lenihan, Conor.McCreevy, Charlie.McDaid, James.McGuinness, John.Martin, Micheál.Moffatt, Thomas.Molloy, Robert.Moloney, John.Moynihan, Donal.Moynihan, Michael.O'Dea, Willie.O'Donoghue, John.O'Flynn, Noel.O'Hanlon, Rory.O'Keeffe, Batt.O'Keeffe, Ned.O'Malley, Desmond.O'Rourke, Mary.Power, Seán.Roche, Dick.Ryan, Eoin.Smith, Brendan.Smith, Michael.Wade, Eddie.Wallace, Dan.Wallace, Mary.Walsh, Joe.Woods, Michael.Wright, G. V.

Níl

Ahearn, Theresa.Barnes, Monica.Barrett, Seán.Bell, Michael.Belton, Louis.Boylan, Andrew.Bradford, Paul.Broughan, Thomas.Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).Bruton, John.Bruton, Richard.Burke, Liam.Burke, Ulick.Carey, Donal.Clune, Deirdre.Connaughton, Paul.Cosgrave, Michael.Coveney, Simon.Crawford, Seymour.

Creed, Michael.Currie, Austin.D'Arcy, Michael.De Rossa, Proinsias.Deasy, Austin.Deenihan, Jimmy.Dukes, Alan.Durkan, Bernard.Ferris, Michael.Finucane, Michael.Fitzgerald, Frances.Flanagan, Charles.Gilmore, Éamon.Gormley, John.Hayes, Brian.Higgins, Jim. Higgins, Joe.

Níl–continued

Howlin, Brendan.Kenny, Enda.McCormack, Pádraic.McGahon, Brendan.McGinley, Dinny.McManus, Liz.Mitchell, Gay.Mitchell, Olivia.Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.Naughten, Denis.Neville, Dan.

O'Shea, Brian.O'Sullivan, Jan.Penrose, William.Perry, John.Rabbitte, Pat.Ring, Michael.Shatter, Alan.Sheehan, Patrick.Stanton, David.Timmins, Billy.Wall, Jack.Yates, Ivan.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies S. Brennan and Power; Níl, Deputies Barrett and Ferris.

Question declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 8 agreed?

Mr. J. Bruton

No. If we impose a time limit on this debate we will bring forward the commencement of the debate on the Courts (Supplemental Provisions) (Amendment) Bill. Fine Gael's position is that the House should not commence the debate on this Bill until the report of the committee is made available. Therefore, we do not agree with restrictions on any debates.

Mr. Gormley

A Cheann Comhairle, no time has been allocated to the smaller parties and this amounts to political censorship. The House should discuss the issue of how much time is to be allocated to smaller parties. It is unacceptable that these parties are excluded every time the House takes statements.

Mr. Belton

Small parties, small votes.

Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with No. 8 be agreed."

Tá

Ahern, Bertie.Ahern, Dermot.Ahern, Noel.Andrews, David.Blaney, Harry.Brady, Johnny.Brady, Martin.Brennan, Matt.Brennan, Séamus.Briscoe, Ben.Byrne, Hugh.Callely, Ivor.Carey, Pat.Collins, Michael.Coughlan, Mary.Cowen, Brian.Cullen, Martin.Davern, Noel.de Valera, Síle.Dennehy, John.Ellis, John.Fahey, Frank.Fleming, Seán.Flood, Chris.Foley, Denis.Fox, Mildred.Gildea, Thomas.Hanafin, Mary.Haughey, Seán.Healy-Rae, Jackie.Jacob, Joe.Keaveney, Cecilia.Kelleher, Billy.Kenneally, Brendan.

Killeen, Tony.Kirk, Séamus.Kitt, Michael.Lawlor, Liam.Lenihan, Brian.Lenihan, Conor.McCreevy, Charlie.McDaid, James.McGuinness, John.Martin, Micheál.Moffatt, Thomas.Molloy, Robert.Moloney, John.Moynihan, Donal.Moynihan, Michael.O'Dea, Willie.O'Donoghue, John.O'Flynn, Noel.O'Hanlon, Rory.O'Keeffe, Batt.O'Keeffe, Ned.O'Kennedy, Michael.O'Rourke, Mary.Power, Seán.Roche, Dick.Ryan, Eoin.Smith, Brendan.Smith, Michael.Wade, Eddie.Wallace, Dan.Wallace, Mary.Walsh, Joe.Woods, Michael.Wright, G. V.

Níl

Ahearn, Theresa.Barnes, Monica.Barrett, Seán.Bell, Michael.Belton, Louis.Boylan, Andrew.

Bradford, Paul. Broughan, Thomas.

Níl–continued

Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).Bruton, John.Bruton, Richard.Burke, Liam.Burke, Ulick.Carey, Donal.Clune, Deirdre.Connaughton, Paul.Cosgrave, Michael.Coveney, Simon.Crawford, Seymour.Creed, Michael.Currie, Austin.D'Arcy, Michael.De Rossa, Proinsias.Deasy, Austin.Deenihan, Jimmy.Dukes, Alan.Durkan, Bernard.Ferris, Michael.Finucane, Michael.Fitzgerald, Frances.Flanagan, Charles.Gilmore, Éamon.Gormley, John.Hayes, Brian.

Higgins, Jim.Higgins, Joe.Howlin, Brendan.Kenny, Enda.McCormack, Pádraic.McGahon, Brendan.McGinley, Dinny.McManus, Liz.Mitchell, Gay.Mitchell, Olivia.Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.Naughten, Denis.Neville, Dan.Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghin.O'Shea, Brian.O'Sullivan, Jan.Penrose, William.Perry, John.Rabbitte, Pat.Ring, Michael.Shatter, Alan.Sheehan, Patrick.Stanton, David.Timmins, Billy.Wall, Jack.Yates, Ivan.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies S. Brennan and Power; Níl, Deputies Barrett and Ferris.

Question declared carried.

Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with Nos. 9, 10 and 11 be agreed."

Tá

Ahern, Bertie.Ahern, Dermot.Ahern, Noel.Andrews, David.Blaney, Harry.Brady, Johnny.Brady, Martin.Brennan, Matt.Brennan, Séamus.Briscoe, Ben.Byrne, Hugh.Callely, Ivor.Carey, Pat.Collins, Michael.Coughlan, Mary.Cowen, Brian.Cullen, Martin.Davern, Noel.de Valera, Síle.Dennehy, John.Ellis, John.Fahey, Frank.Fleming, Seán.Flood, Chris.Foley, Denis.Fox, Mildred.Gildea, Thomas.Hanafin, Mary.Haughey, Seán.Healy-Rae, Jackie.Jacob, Joe.Keaveney, Cecilia.Kelleher, Billy.Kenneally, Brendan.

Killeen, Tony.Kirk, Séamus.Kitt, Michael.Lawlor, Liam.Lenihan, Brian.Lenihan, Conor.McCreevy, Charlie.McDaid, James.McGuinness, John.Martin, Mícheál.Moffatt, Thomas.Molloy, Robert.Moloney, John.Moynihan, Donal.Moynihan, Michael.O'Dea, Willie.O'Donoghue, John.O'Flynn, Noel.O'Hanlon, Rory.O'Keeffe, Batt.O'Keeffe, Ned.O'Kennedy, Michael.O'Rourke, Mary.Power, Seán.Roche, Dick.Ryan, Eoin.Smith, Brendan.Smith, Michael.Wade, Eddie.Wallace, Dan.Wallace, Mary.Walsh, Joe.Woods, Michael.Wright, G. V.

Níl

Ahearn, Theresa.Barnes, Monica.Barrett, Seán.

Bell, Michael.Belton, Louis. Boylan, Andrew.

Níl–continued

Bradford, Paul.Broughan, Thomas.Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).Bruton, John.Bruton, Richard.Burke, Liam.Burke, Ulick.Carey, Donal.Clune, Deirdre.Connaughton, Paul.Cosgrave, Michael.Coveney, Simon.Crawford, Seymour.Creed, Michael.Currie, Austin.D'Arcy, Michael.Deasy, Austin.Deenihan, Jimmy.De Rossa, Proinsias.Dukes, Alan.Durkan, Bernard.Ferris, Michael.Finucane, Michael.Fitzgerald, Frances.Flanagan, Charles.Gilmore, Éamon.Gregory, Tony.

Hayes, Brian.Higgins, Jim.Higgins, Joe.Howlin, Brendan.Kenny, Enda.McCormack, Pádraic.McGahon, Brendan.McGinley, Dinny.McManus, Liz.Mitchell, Gay.Mitchell, Olivia.Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.Naughten, Denis.Neville, Dan.O'Shea, Brian.O'Sullivan, Jan.Perry, John.Rabbitte, Pat.Ring, Michael.Ryan, Seán.Shatter, Alan.Sheehan, Patrick.Shortall, Róisín.Stanton, David.Timmins, Billy.Wall, Jack.Yates, Ivan.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies S. Brennan and Power; Níl, Deputies Barrett and Ferris.

Question declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with No. a7 agreed?

Mr. J. Bruton

No.

Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with No.a7 be agreed.”

Tá

Ahern, Bertie.Ahern, Dermot.Ahern, Noel.Andrews, David.Blaney, Harry.Brady, Johnny.Brady, Martin.Brennan, Matt.Brennan, Séamus.Briscoe, Ben.Byrne, Hugh.Callely, Ivor.Carey, Pat.Collins, Michael.Coughlan, Mary.Cowen, Brian.Cullen, Martin.Davern, Noel.de Valera, Síle.Dennehy, John.Ellis, John.Fahey, Frank.Fleming, Seán.Flood, Chris.Foley, Denis.Fox, Mildred.Gildea, Thomas.Hanafin, Mary.Haughey, Seán.Healy-Rae, Jackie.Jacob, Joe.Keaveney, Cecilia.Kelleher, Billy.Kenneally, Brendan.

Killeen, Tony.Kirk, Séamus.Kitt, Michael.Lawlor, Liam.Lenihan, Brian.Lenihan, Conor.McCreevy, Charlie.McDaid, James.McGuinness, John.Martin, Micheál.Moffatt, Thomas.Molloy, Robert.Moloney, John.Moynihan, Donal.Moynihan, Michael.O'Dea, Willie.O'Donoghue, John.O'Flynn, Noel.O'Hanlon, Rory.O'Keeffe, Batt.O'Keeffe, Ned.O'Kennedy, Michael.O'Rourke, Mary.Power, Seán.Roche, Dick.Ryan, Eoin.Smith, Brendan.Smith, Michael.Wade, Eddie.Wallace, Dan.Wallace, Mary.Walsh, Joe.Woods, Michael.Wright, G. V.

Níl

Ahearn, Theresa.Barnes, Monica.Barrett, Seán.Bell, Michael.Belton, Louis.Boylan, Andrew.Bradford, Paul.Broughan, Thomas.Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).Bruton, John.Bruton, Richard.Burke, Liam.Burke, Ulick.Carey, Donal.Clune, Deirdre.Connaughton, Paul.Cosgrave, Michael.Coveney, Simon.Crawford, Seymour.Creed, Michael.Currie, Austin.D'Arcy, Michael.De Rossa, Proinsias.Deasy, Austin.Deenihan, Jimmy.Dukes, Alan.Durkan, Bernard.Ferris, Michael.Finucane, Michael.Fitzgerald, Frances.

Flanagan, Charles.Hayes, Brian.Higgins, Jim.Higgins, Joe.Howlin, Brendan.Kenny, Enda.McCormack, Pádraic.McDowell, Derek.McGahon, Brendan.McGinley, Dinny.McManus, Liz.Mitchell, Gay.Mitchell, Olivia.Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.Naughten, Denis.Neville, Dan.O'Shea, Brian.O'Sullivan, Jan.Penrose, William.Perry, John.Rabbitte, Pat.Ring, Michael.Ryan, Seán.Shatter, Alan.Sheehan, Patrick.Shortall, Róisín.Stanton, David.Timmins, Billy.Wall, Jack.Yates, Ivan.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies S. Brennan and Power; Níl, Deputies Barrett and Ferris.

Question declared carried.

Mr. J. Bruton

What is the current position on the publication of the report recommending a single financial regulator? This report has been discussed in and made available to the media but it has not been made available to the Members of this House. I understand it is a report to the Tánaiste. When will the report in full be made available to Deputies, who should be the first, not the last, people to get it?

Mr. Rabbitte

On the same issue, I raised this matter with the Taoiseach over a few Orders of Business and the least the House is entitled to is to have the report published.

The Taoiseach

I have to check this and I will come back to the Deputies if I am incorrect, but I understand it will be released today.

Mr. J. Bruton

Will we have a debate here on the matter immediately? Will the Government announce its decision on this report immediately or is it simply being published without any Government decision being made on it?

The Taoiseach

No, it is being published. The Government's consideration of this involves a report from the Tánaiste and the Minister for Finance to Government, which have yet to come to Government, but as the report was being leaked it is better to publish it.

Mr. J. Bruton

The Taoiseach is right.

Mr. Finucane

Yesterday I raised a query on proposed legislation about the alginate industries Bill and I want to correct an inaccurate comment made by the Taoiseach. He said that the seaweed forum is sitting at present. I asked if he would check the veracity of his information – his information is incorrect. The seaweed forum has not even been formed, despite being promised by the Minister for the Marine and Natural Resources 12 months ago.

The Taoiseach

I said yesterday there was to be a seaweed forum – I was not sure whether it was sitting. I understand there has been an announcement about the work and plans of the forum.

Mr. J. Bruton

It has not been launched yet.

Mr. Finucane

To say it is sitting is incorrect.

The Taoiseach

I hope it will sit shortly.

Ms McManus

We were promised that the White Paper on private health insurance would be brought to Government in March and then that it would be June. Will the White Paper be brought to Government, presumably within the next week, so that commitment will be fulfilled?

The Taoiseach

There is some delay. The most recent date proposed is July.

Mr. Naughten

The Taoiseach promised the publication of the youthwork (amendment) Bill by autumn 1997, Christmas 1997, Easter 1998, summer 1998, Christmas 1998, summer 1999 and now the end of this year.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is giving information.

Mr. Naughten

When will this legislation be published and why the delay?

The Taoiseach

The general scheme was approved by the Government on 14 December 1998 but there has been a number of other priorities which have received attention before it, the latest being the Udarás na Gaeltachta (Amendment) Bill. It is a matter of priorities. There are 40 heads in the Bill and other legislation has taken precedence.

Mr. Howlin

Will the money for yesterday's State purchase of Farmleigh be provided for in the public Estimate or will there be a Supplementary Estimate for it? To what public use will this property and lands be put?

An Ceann Comhairle

That should be the subject of a parliamentary question but perhaps the Taoiseach wishes to make a brief comment.

The Taoiseach

I assume the cost will be included in a Supplementary Estimate. As regards the use of Farmleigh, that information was contained in yesterday's statement by the Minister of State, Deputy Cullen.

Mr. Howlin

The Minister of State said it would be used to house visiting foreign dignitaries. Will that be its exclusive use?

An Ceann Comhairle

That is a matter of detail.

The Taoiseach

That is not what he said – he mentioned seven or eight cultural purposes.

Mr. Belton

When will the Taoiseach have the housewarming?

Mr. M. Smith

The Deputy will be the first to be informed.

Mr. O'Donoghue

And invited.

Mr. McGahon

Does the Taoiseach intend to introduce a Bill on privacy during the life of this Government?

The Taoiseach

Specific legislation is not planned. It is a matter which has been receiving some consideration but not in the legislative area.

Ms Shortall

Last week I asked the Taoiseach about the fact that Garda clearance is not being provided to child care workers. I hope he has had an opportunity to familiarise himself with the matter. Does he intend introducing amending legislation to the Data Protection Act to deal with this urgent problem?

The Taoiseach

That will be done, if necessary.

Ms Shortall

Does the Taoiseach know if it is necessary? Has he investigated the matter?

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot discuss the matter.

Ms Shortall

It relates to legislation and is an urgent matter.

The Taoiseach

The matter is being examined. Data protection legislation is due later this year and that matter will be dealt with if necessary.

Ms Shortall

That is not what I asked. I am asking about an urgent matter which has arisen, that Garda clearance is not being given to child care workers.

An Ceann Comhairle

That matter is not appropriate to the Order of Business. There are other ways to raise it.

Ms Shortall

Does the Taoiseach plan to introduce amending legislation to the Data Protection Act before the summer recess?

Mr. Howlin

It is a legitimate question.

The Taoiseach

There is no legislation due before the summer recess. Data protection legislation is due later in the year. As regards the Deputy's question, it is being looked at and if amending legislation is necessary it will be introduced.

Mrs. T. Ahearn

When will the long-awaited disability Bill be published? Given that the Government has £23 million to buy Farmleigh House so we can lavishly entertain foreign guests, will the Taoiseach make the money available—

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is out of order in pursuing that matter in that manner.

Mrs. T. Ahearn

Respite care and day care is needed for people with disabilities—

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should resume her seat.

Mrs. T. Ahearn

They are as important as bricks and mortar. When will they be given—

An Ceann Comhairle

I have ruled the Deputy out of order. She should resume her seat.

Mr. Broughan

Like me, the Taoiseach has many constituents whose names are on the lengthy cardiac waiting lists at the Mater Hospital. Would it be possible to find an extra £23 million—

An Ceann Comhairle

That matter is not appropriate to the Order of Business.

Mrs. O'Rourke

Vincent Browne is being well read.

Mr. Currie

The Children Bill received a second reading in this House 16 months ago. We were told there was to be a successor Bill. Will the Taoiseach tell us how much longer we will have to wait for legislation which languished for many years, was then debated and now seems to have been lost?

The Taoiseach

That legislation will be introduced in the form of a new comprehensive Bill which contains about 260 sections. It will update all the matters involved and will be brought forward as soon as possible.

Mr. Howlin

Will the minimum wages Bill be published before the end of this session?

The Taoiseach

It will be published later this year as it must come into effect by the end of 1999.

Mr. Higgins

(Dublin West): The Taoiseach insisted the Government would bring this State into the NATO-led Partnership for Peace without a referendum, despite the wishes of the people. He said this issue would be dealt with by the Dáil.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is making a statement, will he put a question on the Order of Business?

Mr. Higgins

(Dublin West): When will the Government's proposal to join Partnership for Peace be brought before the Dáil? Will the Taoiseach confirm it will not be rushed through before summer recess next week?

The Taoiseach

It will be in the autumn.

An Ceann Comhairle

That concludes the Order of Business.

Mrs. T. Ahearn

On a point of order.

An Ceann Comhairle

We must proceed with the business of the day.