Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 1 Jul 1999

Vol. 507 No. 4

Order of Business.

Minister for the Marine and Natural Resources (Dr. Woods)

It is proposed to take No. a6, motion re Freedom of Information Act, 1997, Regulations – Draft; No. 12, motion re Fourth Protocol to the Treaty of Amsterdam (An Initiative for a Council Regulation (EC) on Insolvency Proceedings); a33, Minerals Development Bill, 1999 [Seanad] – Order for Report and Report and Final Stages; b33, Immigration Bill, 1999 – Order for Report and Report and Final Stages, and No. 32a, motion re Dispatch of Permanent Defence Force contingent to Kosovo.

It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that: (1) Nos. a6 and 12 shall be decided without debate; (2) the Report and Final Stages of No. a33 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 11.30 a.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for the Marine and Natural Resources; (3) the Report and Final Stages of No. b33 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 2.15 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform; (4) the proceedings on No. 32a, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 4.45 p.m. and the following arrangements shall apply: (i) the opening speech of a Minister or Minister of State and the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party and the Labour Party shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case; (ii) the speech of each other Member called upon shall not exceed five minutes in each case; (iii) Members may share time, and (iv) a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed five minutes; (5) leave shall be given to withdraw the Udaras na Gaeltachta (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill, 1999, and (6) the Dáil shall sit tomorrow at 10.30 a.m. and shall adjourn not later than 4.30 p.m.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

There are six proposals to put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. a6 and 12 agreed to?

Mr. J. Bruton

No. Does the Minister agree that the debacle concerning the Government's withdrawal of the Intoxicating Liquor Bill, 1999, shows that rushing legislation through the House in the last week of the session is a mistake and that the Government should not repeat that mistake in regard to the human rights of immigrants?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The issue of immigrants will arise under proposal No. 3.

Mr. J. Bruton

We want to know what management there is of Government business when the Intoxicating Liquor Bill, 1999, had to be withdrawn and now the Government wants to rush through the Immigration Bill, 1999.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I would prefer to take the issues in sequence.

Mr. J. Bruton

Obviously, drink is more interesting than human rights to Fianna Fáil backbenchers.

Dr. Woods

The Leader of the Opposition is wrong; the Intoxicating Liquor Bill, 1999, has not been withdrawn. It has completed Second Stage.

Mr. J. Bruton

Is it the case that alcohol licensing is the only thing that has awakened the Fianna Fáil benches in two years?

Mr. Martin

The Deputy was not here last night.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We cannot have a discussion on the Bill at this time.

Mr. Quinn

On No. a6, will the Minister confirm that the purpose of the motion is to extend the Freedom of Information Act, 1997, to the Irish Sports Council?

Dr. Woods

That is correct.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. a6 and 12 agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. a33 agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. b33 agreed to?

Mr. J. Bruton

No. The Immigration Bill, 1999, which deals with fundamental human rights issues should not be the subject of a guillotine. It was carried by only one vote at the select committee and should not be rushed through before the end of the session.

Dr. Woods

The Immigration Bill, 1999, was discussed for 16 hours by the select committee. There were 120 amendments. I congratulate the select committee on its excellent work in pursuing them. The discussion on all but five was completed by 9 p.m. when the vote brought Committee Stage to a conclusion. The amendments can be discussed again on Report Stage.

Mr. Quinn

My party is deeply perturbed at the way in which the legislation is being ramrodded through the House. The attitude of the Minister and members on the Government side of the House to immigration, their steamrolling of this legislation and their refusal to allow asylum seekers to work is fostering a spirit and attitude of racism in this country which is unbecoming to all. Shame on this Administration that after two years of asking it to bring forward legislation to deal with the operation of the Refugee Act, 1996, it is forcing through legislation which is ill considered and will undoubtedly create problems in the future.

Mr. E. Ryan

On a point of order, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, it is offensive of the leader of the Labour Party to say the committee is somehow fostering racism. It is most offensive. That is not the case.

(Interruptions).

Mr. E. Ryan

The committee worked very hard on this Bill.

Mr. Stagg

We want action, not words.

Mr. E. Ryan

I consider the comment offensive and it is offensive to the committee.

Dr. Woods

I reject the statement by the leader of the Labour Party. It is false, the Deputy knows it to be so—

Mr. Quinn

It is not.

Dr. Woods

—and that has been borne out by the chairman of the committee. The question of work permits will be dealt with—

Mrs. Owen

In the year 2000.

Dr. Woods

—when the legislation is introduced later this year. The committee spent 16 hours deliberating on the Bill.

Mr. Barrett

So what?

Dr. Woods

It has put into operation a Bill that the Opposition—

Mrs. Owen

The Government wanted to force it through.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

There were eight minutes for each section.

Dr. Woods

—failed to put into operation, the Refugee Act, 1996. In that sense, it achieved something the Opposition could not achieve and I congratulate it on that. The committee discussed 120 amendments and only five remained, which is not unusual. The committee ought to be commended. If anybody wishes to discuss the remaining five amendments further, there is an opportunity to do so on Report Stage because they were put down on Committee Stage.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Is the proposal agreed?

Mr. J. Bruton

No.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I will put the question.

Mr. J. Bruton

While the amendments were discussed on Committee Stage, the substantive sections were not. All the time was taken up with amendments. The Minister has invited the exchanges which have occurred this morning by steamrolling this legislation. There was no need for that. The House could have sat next week to deal with it, if necessary. The Opposition wants to have this legislation passed, but it wants it passed in a manner which permits rational discussion and gives reassurance to people. That has not happened because of the Government's steamroller tactics.

Mr. Quinn

I appeal again to the Fianna Fáil Party. Irish people appear to believe they have a right to settle in any country in the world and be treated with respect. There were many debates in this House previously about the so-called undocumented Irish emigrants in other countries. For Deputy Eoin Ryan's information, I am referring to a newspaper report about "fears of racism if permits are withheld", not a comment by me. This country is treating immigrants and asylum seekers in the most disgraceful way possible. Every Member has relatives who were forced to emigrate from this country in the past and who were treated outrageously. We are now doing the same thing. I beg the Government to allocate extra time so this matter can be dealt with in a humane and compassionate way. There is not one member of the Fianna Fáil Party who does not have relatives who were forced to leave—

(Interruptions).

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

We can sit next week. Why is the Government afraid to sit next week?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I must put the question. The question is: "That the proposal for dealing with item b33 be agreed to."

Dr. Woods

It is grossly unfair of the Deputy to talk about racism. He knows what he is doing by fuelling this debate. What is written in the newspapers does not matter. What is said by the Deputy is far more important and he should not forget that.

Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with No. b33 be agreed to."

Tá

Ahern, Michael.Ahern, Noel.Ardagh, Seán.Aylward, Liam.Blaney, Harry.Brady, Johnny.Brady, Martin.Brennan, Matt.Brennan, Séamus.Briscoe, Ben.Browne, John (Wexford).Byrne, Hugh.Callely, Ivor.Carey, Pat.Collins, Michael.Cooper-Flynn, Beverley.Coughlan, Mary.Cullen, Martin.Daly, Brendan.Davern, Noel.de Valera, Síle.Dempsey, Noel.Dennehy, John.Doherty, Seán.Ellis, John.Fahey, Frank.Fleming, Seán.Flood, Chris.Foley, Denis.Gildea, Thomas.Hanafin, Mary.Haughey, Seán.Healy-Rae, Jackie.Jacob, Joe.Keaveney, Cecilia.Kelleher, Billy.Kenneally, Brendan.

Killeen, Tony.Kirk, Séamus.Kitt, Michael.Kitt, Tom.Lawlor, Liam.Lenihan, Brian.Lenihan, Conor.McCreevy, Charlie.McDaid, James.McGennis, Marian.McGuinness, John.Martin, Micheál.Moffatt, Thomas.Molloy, Robert.Moloney, John.Moynihan, Donal.Moynihan, Michael.Ó Cuív, Éamon.O'Dea, Willie.O'Flynn, Noel.O'Keeffe, Batt.O'Keeffe, Ned.O'Kennedy, Michael.O'Malley, Desmond.O'Rourke, Mary.Power, Seán.Roche, Dick.Ryan, Eoin.Smith, Brendan.Smith, Michael.Treacy, Noel.Wade, Eddie.Wallace, Dan.Wallace, Mary.Walsh, Joe.Woods, Michael.Wright, G. V.

Níl

Ahearn, Theresa.Barrett, Seán.Bell, Michael.Belton, Louis.Boylan, Andrew.Bradford, Paul.Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).Bruton, John.Bruton, Richard.Burke, Liam.Burke, Ulick.Carey, Donal.Clune, Deirdre.Connaughton, Paul.Cosgrave, Michael.Crawford, Seymour.Creed, Michael.Currie, Austin.D'Arcy, Michael.Deasy, Austin.Deenihan, Jimmy.Dukes, Alan.Durkan, Bernard.Ferris, Michael.Finucane, Michael.Fitzgerald, Frances.Flanagan, Charles.Gilmore, Éamon.Gormley, John.Hayes, Brian.Higgins, Jim.Higgins, Joe.Higgins, Michael.

Hogan, Philip.McCormack, Pádraic.McDowell, Derek.McGahon, Brendan.McGinley, Dinny.McGrath, Paul.McManus, Liz.Mitchell, Gay.Mitchell, Jim.Mitchell, Olivia.Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.Naughten, Denis.Noonan, Michael.Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.O'Keeffe, Jim.O'Shea, Brian.O'Sullivan, Jan.Owen, Nora.Penrose, William.Perry, John.Quinn, Ruairí.Rabbitte, Pat.Reynolds, Gerard.Ring, Michael.Sargent, Trevor.Shatter, Alan.Sheehan, Patrick.Spring, Dick.Stagg, Emmet.Stanton, David.Timmins, Billy.Wall, Jack.Yates, Ivan.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies S. Brennan and Power; Níl, Deputies Barrett and Stagg.

Question declared carried.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with 32a agreed?

Mr. Gormley

Not really. Again this is an example of exclusion. We asked for only five minutes to speak on this important matter. I ask the Government to include us in this important debate. We are supporting the deployment of Irish troops under UN mandate in Kosovo but we would like an opportunity to speak on this matter. The trend whereby smaller parties are being excluded is not acceptable.

Mr. J. Bruton

There are many Members in larger parties who are not Front Bench spokespersons on this topic and who might like to speak. The commitment we are making to Kosovo could be a very long one considering the length of time Irish troops have been in the Lebanon and in Cyprus – one must bear that in mind. It is important that there should be a discussion before such a commitment is made, a commitment in which the lives of Irish soldiers will be put at risk, perhaps over a long period. While I have every sympathy for smaller parties, I hope those parties also recognise there are Deputies in larger parties who want to speak too.

Mr. Gormley

Of course, we do.

Dr. Woods

We can look at it as it progresses through the day.

Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with No. 32a be agreed to."

Tá

Ahern, Michael.Ahern, Noel.Ardagh, Seán.Aylward, Liam.Blaney, Harry.Brady, Johnny.Brady, Martin.Brennan, Matt.Brennan, Séamus.Briscoe, Ben.Browne, John (Wexford).Byrne, Hugh.Callely, Ivor.Carey, Pat.Collins, Michael.Cooper-Flynn, Beverley.Coughlan, Mary.Cullen, Martin.Daly, Brendan.Davern, Noel.de Valera, Síle.Dempsey, Noel.Dennehy, John.Doherty, Seán.Ellis, John.Fahey, Frank.Fleming, Seán.Flood, Chris.Foley, Denis.Fox, Mildred.Gildea, Thomas.Hanafin, Mary.Haughey, Seán.Healy-Rae, Jackie.Jacob, Joe.Keaveney, Cecilia.Kelleher, Billy.

Kenneally, Brendan.Killeen, Tony.Kirk, Séamus.Kitt, Michael.Kitt, Tom.Lawlor, Liam.Lenihan, Brian.Lenihan, Conor.McCreevy, Charlie.McDaid, James.McGennis, Marian.McGuinness, John.Martin, MicheálMoffatt, Thomas.Molloy, Robert.Moloney, John.Moynihan, Donal.Moynihan, Michael.Ó Cuív, Éamon.O'Dea, Willie.O'Flynn, Noel.O'Keeffe, Batt.O'Keeffe, Ned.O'Kennedy, Michael.O'Malley, Desmond.Power, Seán.Roche, Dick.Ryan, Eoin.Smith, Brendan.Smith, Michael.Treacy, Noel.Wade, Eddie.Wallace, Dan.Wallace, Mary.Walsh, Joe.Woods, Michael.Wright, G. V.

Níl

Ahearn, Theresa.Barrett, Seán.Bell, Michael.Belton, Louis.Boylan, Andrew.Bradford, Paul.Broughan, Thomas.Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).Bruton, John.Bruton, Richard.Burke, Liam.Burke, Ulick.

Carey, Donal.Clune, Deirdre.Connaughton, Paul.Cosgrave, Michael.Crawford, Seymour.Creed, Michael.Currie, Austin.D'Arcy, Michael.Deasy, Austin.Deenihan, Jimmy.Dukes, Alan.Durkan, Bernard.

Níl–continued

Ferris, Michael.Finucane, Michael.Fitzgerald, Frances.Flanagan, Charles.Gilmore, Éamon.Gormley, John.Hayes, Brian.Higgins, Jim.Higgins, Joe.Higgins, Michael.Hogan, Philip.McCormack, Pádraic.McDowell, Derek.McGahon, Brendan.McGinley, Dinny.McGrath, Paul.McManus, Liz.Mitchell, Gay.Mitchell, Jim.Mitchell, Olivia.Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.

Naughten, Denis.Noonan, Michael.O'Keeffe, Jim.O'Shea, Brian.O'Sullivan, Jan.Owen, Nora.Penrose, William.Perry, John.Quinn, Ruairí.Rabbitte, Pat.Reynolds, Gerard.Ring, Michael.Sargent, Trevor.Shatter, Alan.Sheehan, Patrick.Shortall, Róisín.Stagg, Emmet.Stanton, David.Timmins, Billy.Wall, Jack.Yates, Ivan.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies S. Brennan and Power; Níl, Deputies Barrett and Stagg.

Question declared carried.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Is the proposal for the withdrawal of the Údarás na Gaeltachta (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill agreed to?

Mr. Higgins

(Dublin West): What are the proposals to deal with the Bill?

Dr. Woods

It is being withdrawn to enable the Seanad take it next week.

Mr. D. Carey

The Minister perhaps does not realise that when the postponement of the elections was proposed in the House, a solemn promise was made that the Bill would be processed prior to the elections. This cannot now be done because it will not be introduced to the House until after the summer recess. The elections are due to be held in October. How will this be dealt with?

Dr. Woods

The timetable for the elections can be fully met.

Mr. J. Bruton

Will the Minister answer the question put by Deputy Donal Carey? Is it not the case that an undertaking was given that this legislation would be passed by the House well in advance of the elections? Given that the House will not reconvene until the month of the elections, is it not the case that this commitment will not be fulfilled?

Dr. Woods

The legislation will be passed by the House in time for the elections.

Mr. J. Bruton

Is it not the case that this legislation deals with the allocation of constituencies? The legislation will not be considered by the House until perhaps two or three weeks before the elections. This will mean people will declare for constituencies which do not exist. Surely that is an inappropriate way to deal with a democratic election, or is the Government assuming that no amendments to the legislation will be made by the House? If so, it is treating the House as a rubber stamp.

Mr. Barrett

More incompetence.

Mr. Quinn

I understand the legislation is necessary for the holding of the elections. The Bill must be introduced to the House and, when passed, it must go to the President for signature. In addition the regulations associated with the legislation have to be drafted. It would be a courtesy if the House was told about the entire procedure before it consents to the withdrawal of the Bill.

Mr. Higgins

(Dublin West): Dúirt an tAire Stáit i Roinn na Gaeltachta, nuair a bhí Bille eile á phlé anseo go mbeadh am don Bhille seo a bheith tríd an Dáil i bhfad roimh na toghcháin do Údarás na Gaeltachta Ach tuigtear anois nach mbeidh an Bille sa Dáil go dtí Meán Fomhair nó Deireadh Fomhair. Ní ghlacaim leis sin agus an ndéarfadh an Rialtas cathain a bheidh am againn chun díospóireacht cheart againn ar an mBille roimh na toghcháin don Údarás. An bhfuil an dáta do na toghcháin socraithe ag an Rialtas?

Mr. Sargent

Bheadh an Comhaontas Glas sásta dá gcuirfí seachtain eile ar fáil chun fáil réidh leis an mBille seo sa Dáil. Tá sé ró – phráinneach agus níl sé cothrom do na daoine sa Ghaeltacht a bheidh ag plé leis seo go mbeidh na toghcháin i rith an gheimhridh ar aon nós.

Dr. Woods

I understand the first Údarás na Gaeltachta elections were held in December. I assure the House that the arrangements will be in place in time and that the Bill will be passed.

In addition, it has been introduced in the Seanad at this stage so that there can be comprehensive discussion on the matters involved and the statutory deadlines can be met. The date will be prior to 16 December as required.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Is the proposal for the withdrawal of Údarás na Gaeltachta (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal that the Dáil sits tomorrow agreed?

Mr. J. Bruton

I am not happy to deal with this matter until we get satisfactory assurances in regard to the transport service for the disabled. I know that the Minister made some efforts on that matter, but I understand that the people who use the Vantastic service have not received any written assurances to date.

Mr. Quinn

That is correct.

Mr. J. Bruton

It is very important that the House should not agree to adjourn until such time as a written assurance is given to these people.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

This motion does not deal with a proposal to adjourn. It deals with a proposal to sit tomorrow.

Mr. J. Bruton

I do not agree that the proceedings of the House should conclude at 4.30 p.m. tomorrow until I am assured that this matter will be dealt with. If you wish, a Leas Cheann Comhairle, I will propose the deletion of the words "4.30 p.m".

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

It does not state that the Dáil will adjourn at 4.30 p.m. tomorrow. It states that it shall sit tomorrow.

Mr. J. Bruton

It states "and shall adjourn not later than 4.30 p.m."

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Yes, similar to a normal sitting day. I call Deputy Joe Higgins.

Mr. Higgins

(Dublin West): I wish to refer to a different aspect of the matter.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I call Deputy Quinn.

Mr. Quinn

I confirm that Deputy Bruton's remarks on this matter are correct. Notwithstanding the clear undertakings given by the Minister yesterday, a communication has not been received by the people directly affected. This involves a territorial dispute between three Departments. The sum of money is of the order of £150,000 at most.

Mrs. Owen

Chicken feed.

Mr. Quinn

Government incompetence is preventing the resolution of this matter and the Opposition is obliged to ensure that a commitment made formally by a Minister on behalf of the Government in the House is properly communicated to the people involved. Will the Minister please tell his civil servants to communicate it?

Mr. Dempsey

The Deputy is looking for a row.

Mr. Quinn

The Minister knows what the row is about.

Mrs. Owen

If this results in a row about Estimates we will not be able to pass them.

Dr. Woods

Perhaps I can be of help to the Deputies. Yesterday when the final details were resolved, I brought a letter to the deputation at the front gate of Leinster House and handed it to the people there. The letter stated: "The Taoiseach has asked me to inform you that the Minister for Finance has approved the provision of £150,000 from lottery funds to address the current financial problems of Vantastic".

Ms Fitzgerald

About time.

Dr. Woods

The matter was resolved yesterday and I delivered the letter to them. What the Deputies have been told appears to be incorrect.

Mr. Quinn

I withdraw my remarks.

Dr. Woods

I accept you made your remarks in good faith but in effect they have the money.

Ms Fitzgerald

They were still protesting outside the House last night.

Deputy Higgins rose.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I would prefer if the Minister did not address Members directly. I am putting the question. Deputy Higgins, I gave you an opportunity to speak on the same issue.

Mr. Higgins

(Dublin West): I was on my feet first and it was not because of Vantastic that I wanted to object to tomorrow's sitting.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We were not discussing Vantastic, but the question of whether we will sit tomorrow. We cannot discuss this proposal all morning.

Mr. Higgins

(Dublin West): Is there any point in the Dáil meeting tomorrow following reports in today's newspapers? Approximately 18 months ago I and other Deputies moved motions regarding the sale of lands at Glen Ding Wood. The Government knew at that stage that the chairman of the tribunal had precluded himself from investigating that issue, but did not inform the Dáil.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

This matter does not arise. This is the Dáil, Deputy Higgins.

Mr. Higgins

(Dublin West): It is an incredible abuse of the House and I want an explanation about what happened.

Dr. Woods

We passed on the Deputies' request to the Comptroller and Auditor General so that he could look into that matter.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

This matter does not arise on the Order of Business.

Mr. Higgins

(Dublin West): The House has been treated in the most insulting fashion.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I am putting the question: "That the proposal that the Dáil sits tomorrow be agreed to."

Question put and declared carried.

Mrs. T. Ahearn

On a point of order in regard to the Vantastic scheme—

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is not a point of order. The issue has already been discussed. I call Deputy Bruton.

Mrs. T. Ahearn

This is an important point. A sum of £105,000 does not solve the problem and the people involved need at least £350,000—

Deputy Woods rose.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy Ahearn, you are totally out of order. Minister, I ask you to resume your seat. The issue raised is not on the Order of Business. I call Deputy Bruton.

Mr. J. Bruton

I am glad the Minister has given written assurances to the Vantastic people but the issue of continuing core funding as distinct from temporary funding has not been resolved, and it must be.

Dr. Woods

That is covered in the second part of the letter.

Mr. J. Bruton

I join other Members, including the Minister, in wishing the negotiators in Belfast every success in bringing their current work to a conclusion. It is very important that all the issues currently on the table are dealt with definitively and finally this time to the satisfaction of all parties. We should understand that all their fears and concerns are serious, but ones that, nonetheless, can be addressed in an atmosphere of good faith combined with specific assurances.

Mr. Quinn

On behalf of the Labour Party, I offer our support to all the participants who are, it appears at the last moment in Castle buildings, and urge them to make the necessary compromises and unreserved commitments to a democratic and peaceful path in politics for the next century on this island.

Mr. Sargent

On behalf of the Green Party, I join in the best wishes expressed to those involved in the negotiations on these issues. This is the time when all of us should look for the compromises which will bring about a lasting reconciliation.

Dr. Woods

I join the party leaders in sending our best wishes to all the parties involved in the current talks and wish them every success in achieving the lasting peace for which all the people voted so overwhelmingly. I hope that they will be successful in their endeavours.

The long-term position of Vantastic will be addressed and that must be looked at interdepartmentally. The Taoiseach will nominate one specific Department to take the lead role in it.

Mr. Quinn

Given that Fianna Fáil voted down the Labour Party's Registration of Lobbyists Bill in the Seanad last night, despite the indications of support from the Government and the words of the Taoiseach, does the Government have any proposals to bring forward legislation to register the activities of lobbyists?

Dr. Woods

As the Deputy will appreciate, the idea is one which the Government generally supports and favours.

Ms McManus

Why was it voted down?

Dr. Woods

That matter is being considered in the overall consideration on ethics.

Mr. Rabbitte

On what basis?

Dr. Woods

In the context of the Standards in Public Office Bill.

Mr. Finucane

Will the Minister need to be lobbied on that?

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

We should engage Paddy Duffy.

Mr. J. Bruton

The best lobbyists of all are in the licensed trade.

Mr. Quinn

Did the Cabinet meet to decide this?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is not appropriate to the Order of Business. I call Deputy Owen.

Mrs. Owen

I hope the Minister will take time to explain how one can deduce that the Government is in favour of the Bill after it voted against it.

Mr. Stagg

On a point of order, an Order was made to conclude the debate on the Minerals Development Bill, 1999,[Seanad] by 11.30 a.m., which is approximately 10 seconds away. What is the procedure if we do not reach it?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

There are provisions to deal with it when it is reached.

Mr. O'Kennedy

I presume I should preface my remarks by uttering the mantra "On the Order of Business". Apparently when one utters that mantra, it means one can be as disorderly as one wishes. However, on a point of order, I ask all Members to be conscious that we have spent one hour on the Order of Business. We are making ourselves irrelevant and a laughing stock. This is the only parliament which undertakes this nonsense every sitting day.

Mr. Stagg

It is great to be lectured by somebody who spends his time in the Four Courts making money. We are here more often than the Deputy and we will not be lectured by him.

Mr. O'Kennedy

Every day, Members spend an hour engaging in rí rá agus ruaille buaille.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is not a point of order. I ask Deputy O'Kennedy to resume his seat and allow Deputy Owen to speak.

Mr. J. Bruton

Is this what the Minister had to cope with at the Fianna Fáil parliamentary party meeting yesterday?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy O'Kennedy is being disorderly. I call Deputy Owen.

Mr. Rabbitte

I support Deputy O'Kennedy. It is important that the House attends to legislative matters when the Deputy is available.

Mr. Finucane

He is like a cuckoo which appears now and then.

Mrs. Owen

It is a pity that Deputy O'Kennedy is so upset about the ordinary democratic business of the House in carrying out divisions.

Mr. O'Kennedy

The Deputy has very little appreciation for democratic business.

Mrs. Owen

The Minister of State, Deputy Treacy, announced some time ago that he would introduce measures regarding the disclosure of commission by the insurance industry in September. The Committee on Enterprise and Small Business has been dealing with the matter but yesterday the Minister for the Marine and Natural Resources appeared to indicate that the Minister of State had changed his mind and would introduce the measures in a new insurance Bill. Will the Minister clarify the position because a committee of the House has been considering the matter on the basis that measures would be introduced in September? It was said in replies to many questions that this was the position. What is happening regarding the disclosure of commission in the insurance industry?

Dr. Woods

The explanation may be that the Minister of State can introduce the measures by regulation. I referred to the insurance Bill which is on the list.

Mrs. Owen

Will that cover the disclosure of the information? Has the Minister of State changed his mind following his European tryst?

Mr. Treacy

There must be legislation.

Dr. Woods

It must be primary legislation and it will be part of the Bill which is expected to be published in the autumn.

Mr. McCormack

When will the Wildlife Bill, which was published this morning, come before the House?

Dr. Woods

Not in this session. It will be in the autumn.

Mr. McCormack

The Minister was my teacher at one time and he knows that I am not that slow. I know it will not be introduced tomorrow, but when will it come before the House?

Dr. Woods

In the next session.

Mr. Sargent

That is not acceptable.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Deputy's point is not relevant to the Order of Business.

Mr. Sargent

What contingency plans have been made?

Mr. M. Higgins

What are the arrangements for a debate on the Partnership for Peace? I am interested in the timescale because there have been a number of announcements by representatives of the Government. At what point will there be an opportunity for a comprehensive discussion on the Partnership for Peace?

Mr. Quinn

When Deputy Healy-Rae wants it.

Mr. M. Higgins

A recent article by the Chairman of the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs created a great deal of confusion because it is unclear whether the views expressed are his own or those of the committee.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We cannot have a discussion on the matter. I ask the Deputy to put a question to the Minister.

Mr. M. Higgins

When is it envisaged that this discussion will take place? Will the discussion be sufficiently open ended to allow Members on both sides who have views on the matter to contribute?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is a matter for the Whips.

Dr. Woods

The discussion will be in the next session. Regarding the Wildlife Bill, I congratulate the Minister on bringing forward the legislation.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is not appropriate to the Order of Business.

Dr. Woods

The Bill has been 15 years in gestation.

Mr. J. Bruton

Deputy O'Kennedy must put order on the Minister.

Mr. O'Kennedy

Will the Leas-Cheann Comhairle extend the Order of Business by another 30 minutes?

Mr. J. Bruton

The Deputy is looking for the Leas-Cheann Comhairle's job.

Ms Fitzgerald

It was nice of the Deputy to turn up.

Mr. Boylan

As a Deputy from the Border region, I send my good wishes to all the participants in the Northern Ireland peace talks.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

Mr. Boylan

I hope they can cross the final hurdle successfully and bring peace to that part of the country. As I am on my feet—

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I hope the Deputy's point will be appropriate to the Order of Business.

Mr. Boylan

I wish to ask the Taoiseach elect what stage the national development plan has reached. Has a date for its launch been fixed?

Mr. Finucane

Which Taoiseach elect will reply? The Minister for Education and Science and the Minister for the Environment and Local Government are beside the Minister for the Marine and Natural Resources.

Dr. Woods

A date has not been fixed.

Mr. Finucane

Deputy O'Kennedy is off to the Four Goldmines.

Mr. Higgins

(Dublin West): Given that the Government was told that the chairman of the Moriarty tribunal had £500,000 worth of shares in Cement Roadstone Holdings, why was the House not told at the time?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That does not arise on the Order of Business.