Vol. 515 No. 6
6 Mr. Higgins (Mayo) asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of persons charged under the Criminal Justice Act, 1999, with possession of drugs with a street value of £10,000 or more; the number of these persons who received the mandatory minimum sentence of ten years in prison; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6763/00]
18 Mr. Bell asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of cases taken under the recent legislation which provides for a mandatory ten year sentence for the possession of drugs with a value in excess of £10,000; the number of these cases in which a conviction was secured; the number of cases where a sentence of less than ten years was imposed; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6832/00]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 6 and 18 together.
Section 4 of the Criminal Justice Act, 1999, amends the Misuse of Drugs Act, 1977, by inserting a new section into the 1977 Act, which creates a new offence related to the possession of drugs with a value of £10,000 or more for the purpose of sale or supply and which came into force on 26 May, 1999.
I am informed by the Garda authorities that the number of persons charged with this offence to date is 26. Nineteen of these cases are pending and have not yet been dealt with by the courts, and in one case the person charged has since died.
Six cases have been dealt with. A sentence of four years was imposed in three cases, five years in one case, seven years in one case and seven and a half years in the remaining case.
Deputies will be aware that under the legislation a court is entitled to depart from the imposition of a minimum sentence in exceptional and specific circumstances. Factors to which the court may have regard, in deciding on these circumstances, include whether the person pleaded guilty, taking account of the stage at which such an intention was indicated and the circumstances surrounding the indication, and whether the person materially assisted the investigation of the offence.
Deputies will appreciate that it is a matter for the courts to decide if the exceptional and specific circumstances provided for in the Act exist in any particular case. It would not be appropriate for me, as Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, to comment on court decisions in this respect.
(Mayo): Does the Minister recall when he published the Criminal Justice Bill in 1997, which was debated at length in both Houses, he made a meal of the central feature of the Bill – a ten year jail sentence for the possession of drugs worth £10,000 or more? We warned him it would not work. The impression was given that this was the iron fisted approach and that it would clear the streets of drugs. Will he acknowledge that a mere two convictions as a result of his magnum opus is evidence that we were right, he was wrong and what he was doing was using buzz words, clichés and rhetoric?
Deputy Higgins has a pench ant for repeating those clichés. It seems he did not listen to my reply. The legislation provides that there are exceptional circumstances the court can invoke. The Act has been in force since 26 May 1999 and there have been very few cases before the courts so far under the provisions of that legislation. I am satisfied – and I am sure Deputy Higgins will not be surprised – the Criminal Justice Act, 1999, will be seen as an effective mechanism for dealing with serious drug dealing and trafficking offences. Up to the passage of that legislation, under the Misuse of Drugs Act, 1977, the courts could impose up to life imprisonment but there was no mandatory sentence. There is a mandatory sentence now which can be avoided only if the court is—
I remind the Minister that his reply is confined to one minute.
—satisfied that there are exceptional circumstances relating to the offence.
Does the Minister accept the courts have agreed with the Opposition that this Act is not to be implemented as determined by the Minister and evidence of that fact has been read into the record already? Judge Dominic Lynch, who imposed a seven year sentence on the first person who was tried under the terms of this Act, stated that there is a guideline which states that foreign offenders should receive shorter sentences. Does the Minister approve of that guideline?
Whether the Minister approves or disapproves of a judge's decision is not a matter for the House.
I am not asking him to make a comment on the decision. I understand from what I read in the newspapers that foreign nationals should receive less severe sentences than nationals convicted of the same offence. We are responsible for laying down laws and the Minister is demanding that we lay down mandatory sentencing. Is it his intention to define the scope of judges' discretion in that regard and, if so, will he introduce amending legislation to deal with it?
I ask Deputies to give the legislation an opportunity to work and let us see what precisely occurs. People can compare the sentences being handed down by the courts to sentences handed down in the past year or two and make whatever deductions they wish. It is true that some heavy sentences have been handed down by the courts recently for drug trafficking offences. The legislation has not been fully tested to know the actual outcome. For my part, I am satisfied it is a major asset to the fight against drug trafficking. If, in due course, it becomes apparent that amending legislation is required in this or any other area, I will not be slow to act.
Does the Minister accept that non- nationals should receive less heavy sentences than nationals? Does he accept the expressed view of the Garda Síochána that the exceptions in the Act will make it unworkable in the way the Minister intended?
It would not be appropriate for me to comment on an opinion given by a judge in the course of a trial and I do not propose to do so. With regard to the views of gardaí, I read some unattributed comments regarding the legislation but I cannot be asked to comment on what is said by unattributed sources.
Has the Minister a view on anything? Very little, it would appear.
I can only repeat the proposition I have put forward many times over a prolonged period and which Deputy Howlin and Deputy Higgins opposed.
That is called democracy.
Both Deputies opposed ten year sentences for drug traffickers—
No. I opposed mandatory sentences.
—who were involved in trafficking drugs with a value of £10,000 or more. Both Deputies voted against the measure, as did their parties.
(Mayo): Does the Minister accept that we do not need additional legislation? We need a sensible strategy. Since the legislation was introduced, the number of heroin addicts in the city of Dublin has increased from 14,000 to 16,000. Ecstasy and cannabis can be obtained at any disco in rural Ireland and there is a huge drugs culture in the country. A sensible strategy to tackle this drugs culture at the earliest possible stage is called for. The problem must be tackled in schools.
There have never been more anti-drugs initiatives. The Taoiseach chairs the Cabinet sub-committee on Social Inclusion and Drugs which is very concerned about the issue of the demand for drugs. We have done our best to deal with the problem of the supply of drugs under the Criminal Justice Act, 1999, which Fine Gael, Labour and others opposed.
Those initiatives are failing. The situation is getting worse. The Minister is more interested in headlines than in results.
(Mayo): There is a crisis.
Over a period of two years, the Garda Síochána seized drugs worth more than £120 million. That was a tremendous per formance. Far from failing, we have never been so pro-active.
In the light of recent sentences which varied greatly and which included suspended sentences for very serious offences, is there a need for in-service courses for members of the Judiciary who are involved in drugs cases? There appears to be a great disparity in sentences and this will continue for cases involving drugs worth less than £10,000.
I am aware of Deputy Gregory's concern and I appreciate his involvement in the ongoing fight against drugs abuse. The Criminal Justice Act, 1999 was introduced to provide for minimum sentences of ten years.
The training of judges is a matter for the Judiciary. However, if it is established that sentences of ten years are not being imposed for reasons connected with defects in the legislation, I will move to remedy such defects.
