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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 4 Apr 2000

Vol. 517 No. 3

Other Questions. - Farmer Numbers.

Jim O'Keeffe

Question:

14 Mr. J. O'Keeffe asked the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Rural Development his views on the projections of a recent report that there will be only 20,000 full-time farmers in ten years' time; if Government policy will involve an acceptance of this projected figure; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9641/00]

Ruairí Quinn

Question:

36 Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Rural Development his views on the Agri Food 2010 Committee report which predicts that the number of farmers will fall to 20,000 in the next ten years; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9682/00]

Matt Brennan

Question:

47 Mr. M. Brennan asked the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Rural Development his views on the suggestion that the number of farm families will fall as outlined in the report of the Agri Food 2010 Committee; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9721/00]

I propose to take Question Nos. 14, 36 and 47 together.

The Agri Food 2010 Committee was established in June 1999. Its terms of reference are, "to propose a strategy for the development of Irish agriculture and food over the next decade, following the agreement on Agenda 2000, and in the light of the changes and challenges which are likely to evolve nationally and internationally over that period." The committee, which was independent in its operation and findings, consisted of leading figures from all areas of the agri-food sector.

The committee's report, which was presented to me on 24 March, describes the context in which the sector will have to operate over the next decade, identifies the key issues arising, sets out the committee's vision for the future, and proposes strategies necessary to achieve that vision.

I consider the Agri Food 2010 Committee report provides a valuable analysis of the future of the agri-food sector. I intend to initiate a round of consultations with all interests in the sector on the detailed findings of the committee. These discussions should take no longer than three months and when completed I will give a definitive response to the report.

One of the committee's findings is that the number of full-time farmers will decline because of the growth in part-time farming and the higher standards of living people now expect in our rapidly growing economy. The report states:

Current trends would bring the total number of farms to around 120,000 by 2010. Policy changes, competitive pressures and the increasing "pull factor" in our rapidly developing economy, are likely to accelerate this process, so that the actual number may be close to 100,000 by the time the effect of these changes is fully felt . . . While it is not possible to be precise about these trends, the Committee believes that these changes are likely to give rise to a situation where we will have around 20,000 full-time farmers, 60,000 part-time farmers, and a transitional group of about 20,000 by approximately 2010.

It is likely that the number of full-time farmers will continue to fall and the number of part-time farmers will increase as new and attractive job opportunities become available. The Government is fully committed to helping as many farmers and their families as possible to achieve viability and stay on the land, whether they do this through full or part-time farming. It will be vital to maintain and develop the maximum number of highly competitive full-time farmers, and the committee made a number of recommendations in this regard. Part-time farming offers an opportunity to a considerable number of our smaller farmers who would not otherwise be able to create an acceptable standard of living on the land.

The key issue is that the future of our rural communities should be underpinned by allowing them to share in the benefits of our national economic performance. This will be done by a combination of supporting full-time farming, facilitating part-time farming and ensuring the wide dispersal of jobs in industry and services in rural communities. By doing this we will ensure people from farm families will have the widest possible choice of attractive job opportunities in their local rural areas. We should then support them in whatever they decide is best for themselves.

The Minister welcomed the report which projects a drop from 44,000 to 20,000 in the number of full-time farmers. Does he accept this projection without any word of regret and that it sounds the deathknell for the traditional family farm? Does he accept the projection that most full-time farmers will be involved in milk production and will require a quota of at least 70,000 gallons in ten years' time to survive? Does he accept the general trend of the report and, if so, will he put in place policies to support its findings or does he accept the principles of the founder of his party, as enunciated in the Constitution, that as many full-time farmers as possible should be maintained on the land?

I wish the Deputy a happy birthday.

And so say all of us.

He would want to be careful, he is catching up with Deputy Sheehan.

Can we proceed, please? Very valuable time is being eaten up. Trivialities should not be raised.

I established the committee last year to conduct an analysis of the industry. It worked very hard and produced its findings last week. The committee comprised eminent individuals with a good track record in the industry. It is therefore a valuable analysis. As I have said on more than one occasion, I will the study the report and consult with the various parties concerned. When I complete my consultations in about three months I will give my definitive response and outline the policy options in maintaining the maximum number of farmers on the land.

It may be just an analysis but if the worst predictions outlined in the report were fulfilled, it would mean that the lights in thousands of homes in rural Ireland would go out forever. Does the Minister agree that it would result in the return of rancher style farmers where a small number of people, many of whom would not be Irish, would control large tracts of land? There would also be a return of the type of landlords who existed in the past.

Despite the Minster's best efforts to facilitate the practice of part-time farming where farmers eke out a living from outside sources, what will happen to those farmers when the Celtic tiger economy collapses as will inevitably happen in five or ten years? Does he agree it is a matter of concern that the projections in the report regarding mixed and beef farmers are particularly grave? What impact will the report, if fulfilled, have on food processing plants? The Minister has done some work with regard to the organic food sector in Wexford, but does he agree there is a need to pursue alternative enterprise, particularly in terms of a move into the emerging market for organic food?

Acting Chairman

A number of Deputies are anxious to ask supplementary questions. I will take all the questions together before the Minister replies.

The report is a sad commentary on what is happening in rural Ireland. It is difficult to know whether they can be precise, but if things are done better in the future than they were in the past and there is a better market for our product, it is entirely possible that the figure will not be as low as 20,000. If it transpires that there are a certain number of part-time farmers, what is the Minister's view on how they should be treated? Will he insist, as he appears to be doing at present, that there must be off-farm income limits which make it as difficult as possible for part-time farmers to get pollution grants, etc? Has the Minister addressed this issue? If not, there will be the worst of all worlds. There will be nobody on the land.

The Minister gave a commitment that he would put policies in place when the study is completed. This is most important. Does he accept it is totally unfair that a young full-time farmer, who has a total of five suckler cows and 100 sheep, is refused an extra suckler quota while a person with a reasonable salary could get ten quotas? If the maximum number of farmers is to be preserved, we must ensure that qualified young farmers have an opportunity to remain in business. Is the Minister aware of how few people want to enter colleges at present?

This analysis is valuable, but we must be careful because analyses seldom prove to be absolutely correct. Few people said ten years ago how matters would stand in 2000. Many of the studies done then produced many projections but they did not outline the position today.

Any I saw were not too far out.

This is what I fear. It is coming in by the back door. The Minister must keep an eye on it.

Learned people in universities and technical people contributed to this report. They are talking about trends but, as all Deputies are aware, the trend in rural Ireland with regard to farming has been a decline in numbers since the foundation of the State. There is a better opportunity now to retain people in rural communities than ever before. Deputy Connaughton raised the point that in some of the schemes promoted by the EU and the Department there are constraints on people who are part-time farmers. We want to remove those constraints.

I agree with Deputy Crawford that qualified young people should get every possible chance. Given the availability of modern technology, there is no need to be in the centre of Dublin. The city is suffocating and there is a need for decentralisation. This is why we ensured Coca Cola located in Mayo last year and I hope the company is doing well there. There is a need for the location of many more dot.com companies in villages and towns so people can travel to work and stay in rural communities.

This study must be considered in conjunction with my colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Davern's White Paper on Rural Development. A total of £6.7 billion underwrites that rural development programme. In addition, local authorities could do more to keep people in rural Ireland. They could be more sympathetic to family members securing planning permission on the family farm and keeping people in rural areas.

Get the Minister for the Envir onment and Local Government, Deputy Dempsey, to direct them to do so.

What about the cross-Border bodies in Cork?

Acting Chairman

Other Deputies wish to ask questions.

I am glad the Minister mentioned planning permission. I represent a county which suffers more refusals than any other.

We feel bad.

Almost 26% of applications are refused compared to 7% in Westmeath, 4% in Cavan and 10% in Monaghan. I know all about it.

What about County Mayo?

Acting Chairman

A question please, Deputy.

It is worrying that there will be only 20,000 full-time farmers. However, I am glad the Minister recognises the importance of keeping as many people as possible on the land and in rural Ireland, irrespective of whether they are full-time or part-time farmers. As Deputy Penrose said, rural Ireland has been dying for many years.

Acting Chairman

A question please, Deputy.

Perhaps there could be a debate in the House on this issue because it is most important to rural Ireland and the welfare of the people there.

Given that the Minister has been in the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development for 11 of the past 14 years, is he embarrassed by the report? Would it be possible to introduce tax breaks such as the section 23 measure or the seaside resorts scheme? There is a need for a good initiative which would encourage young farmers to stay in agriculture. The Minister should not be afraid that other sectors would complain. A fortune has been spent on bringing companies such as Coca Cola to Ireland. They are grant aided to the hilt. The Minister should not be ashamed to look after small and young farmers and people who want to stay in agriculture on a full-time basis to keep rural Ireland alive. He should not be afraid because he would have the support of the House.

Acting Chairman

A question please, Deputy.

Will the Minister introduce a good initiative to keep young farmers on the land and rural Ireland alive?

Does the Deputy not want Coca Cola?

I thank my constituency colleague for the birthday greeting. At this stage, one is inclined to forget them rather than look forward to them.

Six more years to free travel.

Acting Chairman

A question please, Deputy.

Will the Minister back the approach which involves commercial farming rather than family farming because only 3,000 farmers have quotas of over 70,000 gallons at present? Will there be 20,000 farmers with quotas of over 70,000 gallons and the rest with nothing? Is the Minister prepared to accept the recommendations mentioned by Deputy Penrose in relation to organic farming and the projections? I agree with the report regarding the phenomenal rate of growth in that area which is not being matched. Does the Minister accept the need for targets for reducing poverty as mentioned in the report? Does he recognise that if the report is implemented in full, it will be a prescription for poverty in rural Ireland?

The situation in rural Ireland needs to be taken in hand and there is a need for a considerable injection of money. Thankfully, a considerable sum will go into rural Ireland. For example, a total of £10 billion will be provided in direct payments while a further £4 billion will be provided in Structural Funds. A total of £16 billion or £17 billion will go directly into farming in rural areas up to 2006. Under the national development plan, there will be also indirect infrastructural supports for rural areas. There is a need to address those matters and Government policy is to maintain the maximum number of people in remunerative employment in rural areas.

Young people are abandoning family farms because they do not wish to milk cows seven mornings and evenings of the week to earn between £7,000 and £8,000 per year when they can earn between £17,000 and £18,000 or £25,000 and £30,000 working for a dot.com company. They say to their parents, "I am terribly sorry, I know the farm has been in the family for the past three generations but I have no intention of carrying it on." We must ensure these people can earn a comparable income in their localities and this will help maintain rural communities.

I asked Teagasc to give special attention to organic production and Warrenstown College is now devoted to this activity. Anyone who visits a supermarket can testify that more shelf space is being devoted to organic produce. However, it is a slow process and it takes time to ensure that development takes place.

In my opinion analysis is worthwhile and it indicates trends, but no more than that. Teagasc, UCD, UCC and other reputable institutions contributed to this report which I will study and in respect of which I will consult. My policy will be to ensure the maximum number of people are retained in rural areas.

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