Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 11 Apr 2000

Vol. 517 No. 6

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach:

It is proposed to take No. 12, motion re Membership of Committees, No. 13, motion re Referral to Joint Committee of proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of a proposal for a Council Decision creating a European Refugee Fund (Com (1999) 686 final), No. 14, motion re Referral to Joint Committee of Freedom of Information Act, 1997 (Prescribed Bodies) (No. 2) Regulations 2000, No. 15, motion re Planning and Development Bill, 1999 [Seanad], No. 14, Insurance Bill, 1999 – Second Stage (resumed) and No. 41, Sex Offenders Bill, 2000 – Second Stage (resumed).

It is proposed, not withstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the proceedings on Nos. 12, 13 and 14 shall be decided without debate, that the proceedings on No. 15, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion within 30 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply: the opening speech of the Minister, Minister of State and the main spokesperson for the Fine Gael party and the Labour Party who shall be called upon in that order, and the speech of each other Members called upon shall not exceed five minutes in each case. Members may share time. Private Members' business shall be No. 94 – motion re Development Aid.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

There are two proposals to put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 12, 13 and 14 agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 15 agreed to? Agreed.

Mrs. Owen:

On No. 97 on the list of legislation, will the transport Dublin light rail Bill arrive in this millennium? Are we supposed to be impressed that the Cabinet had a special sub-committee meeting today to discuss transport issues. We wait with bated breath to hear if the Government will make some decisions about our transport system. Will the Taoiseach tell us what is happening to the transport Dublin light rail Bill and is it only today and next week that the Government has woken up to the serious problems concerning the transport infrastructure?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

Deputy Owen should allow the Taoiseach to answer the question on legislation.

The Taoiseach:

Late this year.

Mrs. Owen:

Late this year. Is that as much information as has arisen in the special sub-committee?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

We cannot have a debate.

Mrs. Owen:

Does the Taoiseach propose to take public transport to the meeting in Waterford next month?

Mr. Quinn:

Does the Government have any plans to introduce new legislation to deal with parental leave in light of recent announcements?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

No such legislation is promised.

Mr. Quinn:

This may be a legal requirement.

The Taoiseach:

The European Commission issued a reasoned opinion last week to the effect that Ireland, in bringing in parental leave for employees having children born on or adopted after 3 June, has not fully complied with its obligations. The Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform is examining that opinion with a view to identifying the measures required to be put in place to give effect to the opinion and is in consultation with the Attorney General's office in this regard.

It could mean legislation. The position is we have responded expeditiously to the Commission's notice and welcomed the clarification in the opinion and we intend to respond as quickly as possible on the issue. The date is 5 or 6 June.

Mr. Quinn:

The Taoiseach has been briefed in advance of the Order of Business on this legislative measure. Does he have any estimate of the timetable required? Can a short, amending Bill to deal with an issue of time rather than eligibility be introduced before the end of the session?

Mrs. Owen:

To be helpful, during the debate on the Bill Fine Gael and other parties tabled amendments to extend the eligibility period for parental leave. The Taoiseach could look at those and use them in a short Government Bill and we would be happy to co-operate in putting through an amending Bill such as that as quickly as possible. We are clearly in breach in a number of areas.

The Taoiseach:

As I said, the Department has received the reasoned opinion and must respond to it. The Department must identify the measures needed to put the opinion into effect and is looking into that in consultation with the Attorney General. If, as seems likely, this requires change that will be done as soon as possible.

Mr. Quinn:

In view of the overburdened legislative responsibilities of the Department in question, I ask the Taoiseach to refer this matter immediately to the relevant committee of the House. That committee can be empowered or requested to take the suggestions made by Deputy Owen, to bring in a short, amending Bill that could be initiated with the support of the Government. If we wait for the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform to do so on top of its existing workload, we will not see it until next year. Let us be realistic about that.

The Taoiseach:

The Department must respond and come to an agreement with the Commission by 3 June, so that is the first thing that must happen. It must satisfy the Commission and identify the measures needed. That must be done first and then perhaps quick amending legislation would work. The issue here relates to the date of 3 June 1996 in the Bill, which the Commission, from my reading of this brief, feels should be 3 June 1993. That is how it looks, but it needs to be examined further, though the Commission seems to focus only on this matter. If that is the case, quick, amending legislation could easily be introduced.

Mrs. Owen:

We do not have to wait until June.

The Taoiseach:

We do. Under law, one must respond to a reasoned opinion within two months.

Ms Fitzgerald:

Just three weeks ago the Taoiseach said no legislation was needed on this issue, though he has known for some months that we were out of order with other EU countries.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

We are moving on.

Ms McManus:

I have a question on promised legislation and I also have a question on what legislation has been promised to those haemophiliac victims waiting for a tribunal on the contamination they have suffered. They are dying as they wait. Will the Taoiseach ensure this tribunal can go ahead on the date promised?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

That does not arise on the Order of Business.

Ms McManus:

Regarding the medical practitioners Bill, we were promised health legislation this session, but none of it has been published.

The Taoiseach:

The medical practitioners Bill is due late this year. Is the other issue in order? The Deputy referred to a tribunal.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

I would prefer if we did not discuss tribunals here unless it is appropriate to the Order of Business.

Mr. Shatter:

There has been a promise of further tribunal hearings in respect of allowing people with haemophilia and HIV—

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

That is not appropriate to the Order of Business.

Mr. Shatter:

If the Chair listens to the end of the question it is appropriate. There is a promise that they will be given a second opportunity to obtain compensation on the basis, now recognised, that the compensation paid in the late 1980s and early 1990s was inadequate. When will the proposal to facilitate that, which was a promise, be laid before the House?

Second, in conjunction with Deputy McManus, is there a proposal from the Government to resolve the difficulties which have now arisen in the HIV tribunal sitting to tackle the problems the Irish Haemophilia Society is concerned about—

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

Those matters should be raised by way of parliamentary questions. The Chair has ruled many times that issues raised at tribunals are not matters for the Order of Business.

Mr. Shatter:

I ask that the Taoiseach be allowed to reply.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

This matter is not in order on the Order of Business. The administrative aspects of the cost can be pursued by way of parliamentary questions.

Mr. Shatter:

A general election arose because of this issue. Does the Chair wish to precipitate similar difficulties? I ask that the Taoiseach be allowed to reply.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

The Deputy should resume his seat. The Chair is on its feet.

Ms McManus:

I seek the Chair's guidance. I understand the Chair has ultimate discretion when an issue of importance is raised here.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

I do not have ultimate discretion. I must abide by Standing Orders and ensure they are adhered to.

Ms McManus:

The Chair has some leeway and is compassionate. The Taoiseach wants to reply.

Mr. Shatter:

On a point of order, in relation to the promise that has been made—

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

That is not a point of order.

Mr. Shatter:

It is a matter for this House.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

It is for the Chair to implement Standing Orders on the Order of Business.

Mr. Shatter:

The Chair is now obstructing the workings of the House.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

I am not.

Mr. Shatter:

A motion is to come before the House on this issue and we are entitled to ask the Taoiseach when that will happen.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

Is such a motion due before the House?

The Taoiseach:

I was about to say something about this earlier, but the Chair correctly ruled me out of order. I do not answer questions on motions, I answer questions about legislation, and there is no legislation.

Mr. Shatter:

The Government is running away from the issue.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

This matter is before the tribunal and, as the House is well aware, it is a matter for the tribunal, not for this House on the Order of Business.

Ms McManus:

That was a shameful comment by the Taoiseach.

Mr. Shatter:

This is a serious issue. The work of this tribunal will not go ahead because of the Taoiseach's failure to address this matter.

Mr. Dukes:

This contentious issue has nothing to do with the substance of what is before the tribunal, but is an important point of procedure which is properly a matter for this House.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

Administrative aspects are not a matter for the Order of Business.

Mr. Dukes:

We will have to vote the money.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

A parliamentary question is the way is to proceed.

Mr. Dukes:

When will the local government Bill come before the House? Is the Taoiseach aware that 11 days ago the other House was promised it would have it within four weeks? Can we deduct 11 days from four weeks and expect to see the local government Bill in this House?

The Taoiseach:

It will come before the Government next week and will be published shortly after that.

Mr. Quinn:

In light of questions asked last week on promised legislation and section (a) of the schedule, which lists the Bills to be published up to the Easter recess on Thursday week, will the Government Chief Whip or the Taoiseach indicate what outstanding Bills which have not been published but are on that list of 19 will be published between now and the Easter recess?

The Taoiseach:

I have a copy of the schedule which I will make available to the Deputy.

Mr. Higgins

(Mayo): The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform recently announced some changes in the procedures for DNA testing whereby non-intimate body samples can be taken, using what the Minister described as reasonable force. Is it proposed to establish a DNA database? Will legislation be required to introduce the new changes in procedure?

The Taoiseach:

The Minister said he was examining this matter but the Deputy should put down a parliamentary question.

Mr. Higgins

(Dublin West): Is the Minister for Finance distressed to see that the unbridled speculation of building land has made big business in the form of IBEC becoming left wing pinkos—

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

Deputy Higgins, have you a question appropriate to the Order of Business?

Mr. Higgins

(Dublin West):—in recommending control of this speculation? On legis lation, when will the report of the commission on private rented accommodation be brought before the Dáil, as promised by the Taoiseach?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

Questions on reports are not appropriate.

Mr. Higgins

(Dublin West): In view of the fact that RTE will expose the rampant abuse of tenants tonight—

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

Is legislation promised on the report?

The Taoiseach:

The report is due by 1 June. The possibility of legislation will then be considered.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe:

On legislation regarding the pensions reserve fund, I understand there is about £3 billion in a temporary holding fund, without any investment strategy, statutory or otherwise, being undertaken. Does the Taoiseach agree that pensions reserve fund legislation is urgently required?

The Taoiseach:

It is due before the summer. It is an urgent Bill.

Mr. D. Carey:

It is another slush fund.

The Taoiseach:

The legislation will establish a pension fund for social welfare and public service pensions, including for Deputy Carey in his later years.

Mr. McDowell:

The TSB recently announced it would employ consultants to advise it on its future. Given the legal structure of the bank, has the Government committed itself to giving the bank a legislative blank cheque—

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

Have you a question appropriate to the Order of Business?

Mr. McDowell:

Has the Government a policy for the future of the bank?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

Deputy Kenny.

Mr. McDowell:

The matter is relevant—

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

Have you a question appropriate to the Order of Business?

Mr. McDowell:

—because legislation is required. Has the Government given a commitment to the bank that it will introduce legislation?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

Is legislation promised?

The Taoiseach:

I am not sure. Is the Deputy talking about ACC?

Mr. McDowell:

No, the TSB.

The Taoiseach:

No legislation is promised.

Mr. Kenny:

The Comhaontas Glas is not here so I will ask this question. Ireland does not have a vote at the Convention on the International Trade of Endangered Species but it is bound by a European regulation of 1997. Last week, the Minister for Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands indicated that we would support any measures which would reduce the production of ivory. Will the Taoiseach give practical leadership on this matter by prohibiting the sale—

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

The Deputy should put down a question on the matter. It is not appropriate to the Order of Business.

Mr. Kenny:

—of elephant hide and ivory products?

Mrs. Owen:

Does the Taoiseach have any information on that question?

Mr. Shatter:

He is on the horns of a dilemma.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

No. Have you a question appropriate to the Order of Business?

Mrs. Owen:

There are a few white elephants on the other side but they probably do not have ivory tusks. Given the labour shortage, when will the part-time workers directive Bill be published? I have been informed that it has been delayed and we are already in breach of our obligations under the EU directive. The Bill should have been published in January 2000. I was last told it would be published before the middle of 2000.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

A question on legislation.

Mrs. Owen:

I believe it has been put back again.

The Taoiseach:

The heads of the Bill will be published this month and the Bill is expected by the summer.

Mr. Allen:

Since the full-time whistle blew before the Taoiseach could answer the question, does he propose to publish the Frederick Snow report on Casement Aerodrome? The contents of the report have been used by the Department of Defence to oppose Eircom Park—

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

Deputy Donal Carey.

Mr. Allen:

The Taoiseach is willing to answer.

The Taoiseach:

The Deputy is right that even though we went ten minutes over time on questions, I did not answer that question. It is a matter for the Department of Defence.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe:

Pass the buck.

Mr. Allen:

The report is continuing to be suppressed.

Mr. D. Carey:

The Taoiseach said he would not answer questions on motions. Has he any intention of moving the writ for the Seanad by-elections or will he continue to prevaricate?