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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 18 Apr 2000

Vol. 518 No. 3

Order of Business.

The Order of Business today shall be as follows: No. 12, motion re membership of joint committee; No. 13, motion re Fourth Protocol to Treaty of Amsterdam – a proposal for a Council decision creating a European refugee fund (COM (1999) 686 final) (returned from committee); No. 14 motion re referral to select committee of Freedom of Information Act, 1997 (Prescribed Bodies) (No. 2) Regulations, 2000; No. 37, Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse Bill, 2000 – Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage; No. 37a, statements on Nevin licensing case; No. 38, Wildlife (Amendment) Bill, 1999 – Second Stage (Resumed), and No. 5, Proceeds of Crime (Amendment) Bill, 1999 – Order for Second Stage and Second Stage.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that: (1) Nos. 12, 13 and 14 shall be decided without debate; (2) the Report and Final Stages of No. 37 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 6.10 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Education and Science; and (3) the proceedings on No. 37a, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion after 50 minutes and the statements shall be confined to the following Members who shall be called upon in the following sequence and the following arrangements shall apply: (i) the statement by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform shall not exceed 15 minutes; (ii) the statement of the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party and the Labour Party shall not exceed five minutes in each case; and (iii) following the statements the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform shall take questions for a period not exceeding 25 minutes. Private Members' Business shall be No. 91, motion re Shannon River Statutory Authority.

On a point of order, copies of the Order of Business were not available in the General Office.

That is not a point of order.

Can this be arranged in future as it places the Opposition at a further disadvantage?

There are three proposals to put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 12, 13 and 14 agreed to?

Yes. In regard to No. 13 will the Taoiseach indicate what contribution Ireland will make?

I will allow that question when the motion is moved.

You are referring to items by way of number. We do not have copies of the Order of Business which identifies them. We therefore have a slight difficulty in co-operating with the House.

The Chair will facilitate the Deputy on this occasion. No. 12 is a motion re membership of joint committee. No. 13 is a motion re Fourth Protocol to the Treaty of Amsterdam – a proposal for a Council decision creating a European refugee fund (COM (1999) 686 final) (returned from committee). No. 14 is a motion re referral to select committee of Freedom of Information Act, 1997 (Prescribed Bodies) (No. 2) Regulations, 2000.

I understand the reason No. 13 – which concerns refugees about whom everybody is talking – is not being debated is that it is not usual to debate something here which has been dealt with in committee. Does the Taoiseach agree it would be a good idea to discuss this issue in the House given that Europe is doing something positive about the position of refugees, to which Ireland will contribute, and that it would allow Members of the House to refer positively to our responsibilities to assist in reducing the refugee problem world-wide?

I do not have any problem with this issue. This item was sent from here to a committee where it was debated and now it is back here again. If Deputy John Bruton is suggesting we should debate it here as well as in the committee, the Whips can discuss that.

I have no doubt the deliberations of the committee have not been reported. We need to have a discussion in the House where we can display in a positive way our concern to treat sympathetically those who have been driven from their homes by fear. I am happy to agree that the motion be taken without debate on the basis that the Taoiseach indicates that the substance of the motion can be debated in the House shortly after the Easter recess. That would be satisfactory.

I agree to that.

Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 12, 13 and 14 agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 37 agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with Statements on Licensing Case agreed? Agreed.

Will the promised Nursing Bill be brought forward urgently given that many in the nursing profession are expressing concern that the spirit of the agreement which led to the end of the recent strike is not being honoured fully to their satisfaction? Will the promised Medical Practitioners (Amendment) Bill be brought forward urgently given that junior hospital doctors who are covered by it are reportedly being asked to work up to 100 hours per week in adverse conditions from their own and the patients' point of view?

The detail of what is or might be in the Bill is not appropriate to the Order of Business.

The heads of the Nursing Bill to amend the Nursing Act, 1985, are expected in the summer. It will be the autumn before the Bill will be debated. Work is in progress in the Department on the Medical Practitioners (Amendment) Bill, which is to update and amend the provisions of the 1978 Act. The Bill is due to be published later in the year and the heads are expected soon.

Does the Taoiseach agree there are deplorable conditions in some of our hospitals?

The Deputy's question is not appropriate to the Order of Business.

That only makes the House not appropriate to the concerns of the people.

It is not appropriate to ask a question on legislation and then try to broaden the question to cover what might or might not be in legislation.

The Government has promised legislation on this matter. The Taoiseach has not dealt with the substance of my concerns.

It is not appropriate for the Taoiseach to answer it. He would be ruled out of order if he did.

He is not normally ruled out of order when he wishes to make a statement on a matter of importance.

The Order of Business is specific. I call Deputy Quinn.

I do not wish to cut across Deputy Quinn but the current hospital crisis deserves a response from the Government.

The Deputy asked two questions on promised legislation which were in order.

Four hospitals were named and shamed.

I was not here for Question Time as I was travelling back from Belfast. Have the Taoiseach's meetings with the British Prime Minister, Mr. Blair, been completed? Will arrangements be made in consultation with the Whips for a statement on the present position in Northern Ireland either later today or some time tomorrow?

I answered questions for 50 minutes last week and 50 minutes again today. I will not add anything to what I have said already.

The Taoiseach was not in a position to answer questions last week on the ongoing developments over the weekend. In light of the forthcoming anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement later this week and the fact the House will be adjourned for a further two weeks, does the Taoiseach think it is appropriate for the leaders of the Opposition to make a definitive statement before the House adjourns?

That was dealt with in Question Time today.

I am raising this matter on the Order of Business. In light of the ongoing discussions, does the Taoiseach think it is appropriate for time to be set aside tomorrow or on Thursday for a debate on this important issue, subject to the agreement of the Whips?

That matter should be raised with the Whips.

Is the Taoiseach prepared to recommend to his Whip that such a matter be dealt with?

If there is a major change in the position, which I do not expect before the House adjourns on Thursday afternoon, I will make a statement. Last week I answered three questions on the forum and I answered questions today about all the updated issues. As I did not talk about the questions tabled today, Deputy John Bruton asked me to reinstate one of them on the Question Paper. Having spent an hour and a half answering questions in recent days, it is not necessary to take up valuable time saying it all over again.

Fine Gael has tabled a motion on this matter.

(Mayo): Yesterday's brutal murder in Limerick brings to 17 the number of people who have died in violent circumstances in the first 16 weeks of this year. This, coupled with the huge upsurge in unprovoked violent attacks on people on our streets, points to an escalation of violence.

I ask the Deputy to ask a question on legislation.

(Mayo): What is being done about it? When is it proposed to introduce the Criminal Justice (Garda SMI) Bill, which has been on the list of promised legislation for a considerable period of time?

Does Deputy O'Donoghue remember zero tolerance?

The heads of the Bill were approved on 15 February. I hope the Bill will be available as soon as possible.

Is the Taoiseach waiting for the publication of the Sea Pollution (Hazardous and Noxious Substances) (Civil Liability and Compensation) Bill before he takes up with the British Prime Minister the issue of Sellafield and the transportation of radioactive waste in the Irish Sea? Will it be published before Easter as promised? Is that the reason he will not raise this issue with the British Prime Minister?

The Bill has been cleared by the Government and it will be published in the next few days.

What progress is being made on the Ombudsman for Children Bill? Will the Taoiseach consider circulating the heads of the Bill to committees of the House, such as the Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights and the Committee on Education and Science, so they can consider the broad principles and discuss and receive submissions ahead of its publication which would speed up its passage through the Oireachtas?

The heads of the Bill were cleared by the Government today so I hope we can move forward quickly.

Is that a golden opportunity to circulate the heads to the committees? A number of committees deal specifically with children and it would be important for them to have an input into the development of this proposal.

We will be able to clear the Bill shortly and then it can be debated.

When a Private Members' Bill is accepted by Government, the Government effectively takes control of it. When does the Government intend to bring the Whistleblowers Protection Bill to committee? I hope the Taoiseach does not tell me it is in committee as that does not have any legislative significance.

The Taoiseach on promised legislation.

I am not too sure what the Deputy wishes me to do. The Bill was accepted and went before the enterprise committee and that is where it remains. Is the Deputy asking me to move the Bill forward?

I call Deputy John Bruton.

Judging from events the Parliament may expire earlier than we think.

The Government will have expired.

I have called Deputy John Bruton.

The Order Paper includes two pages of reports from committees of the Houses awaiting debate. I am referring in particular to reports of the Committee of Public Accounts which is a very important and high profile committee which brought considerable lustre to the reputation of the House in recent times. When does the Government propose to take reports of that committee which are Nos. 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 30, 34 and 35 on the Order Paper?

Two weeks ago the House spent a full day discussing a report of the Committee of Public Accounts. There is an agreement to take reports on Thursday afternoons. There is no difficulty taking those reports.

The Taoiseach indicated that some Bills would not be ready for publication even though they were promised prior to the Easter recess. Publication of the Health (Amendment) Bill was promised for the end of the Easter recess in 1999. The purpose of this Bill is still unclear and a bit of a mystery. Will the Taoiseach indicate when and why this Bill will be published?

The Taoiseach on when the legislation will be published.

This is one of ten Bills cleared in the past week or so.

The Broadcasting Bill has failed to make it to Committee Stage. Has the facilitator appointed by the Minister reported to her to enable us to move the Bill to Committee Stage? The facilitator was given three weeks to report and that period is now up.

That matter is not appropriate to the Order of Business.

The Bill is before the committee.

It is not.

It is and the Minister is to report progress shortly. Hopefully that can happen.

(Dublin West): In the past few weeks a number of public representatives, particularly in County Kerry, made bigoted, disgusting and slanderous remarks about entire minority communities. Asylum seekers and Travellers in particular have been defamed.

Does the Deputy have a question appropriate to the Order of Business?

(Dublin West): I do. Minority communities have been disgracefully defamed and they do not have the same voice—

Does the Deputy have a question on legislation?

(Dublin West): Yes. Will the Government show its condemnation of this activity by bringing forward the defamation Bill and making it applicable to this attack on people who do not have the same voice as the majority people in our community?

The Taoiseach on whether legislation is promised.

This issue would not be covered by that legislation.

I call Deputy Gay Mitchell.

(Dublin West): A Leas-Cheann Comhairle, I did not hear the Taoiseach.

That was because the Deputy was still speaking on a matter inappropriate to the Order of Business.

The defamation Bill is at an early stage but I do not think it will cover what the Deputy is talking about.

We regularly look back and say that we did not know about institutional abuse. I have raised the prison situation in the House. On promised legislation, there was a tragic death in prison recently. In view of the fact that 75% of prisoners in Mountjoy Jail come from about five identifiable areas of Dublin, when will the prisons service Bill be brought before the House? It is time we looked at the need for prison reform and put the prisons authority on a statutory basis.

The Deputy is aware that there is an interim board which is doing a good job. The heads of the prisons service Bill are expected in June 2000. However, the interim board is working away and successfully dealing with prison reform.

On 28 January 1999, the Minister, Deputy O'Rourke, said we would have the local government Bill in the middle of 1999.

The Deputy was taking the Order of Business.

Last year the Taoiseach said we would have this legislation before Christmas. Before Christmas he said we would have this famous product by January. I think he was talking about January 2000. When will this mouse emerge from the mountain?

I thank the Deputy for giving me the opportunity to point out that the Bill providing for the largest ever reform of local government was passed by the Cabinet today.

About time.

A final question from Deputy Gormley.

When I asked the Taoiseach about the carers leave Bill he said it would be ready by the autumn.

The Deputy should ask about legislation without giving a commentary.

Will this legislation be ready by the autumn? Will the disabilities Bill be published before 2001?

The carers leave Bill has to be passed before October and it is due in the middle of the year. The heads of the disabilities Bill are expected later this year.

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