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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 16 May 2000

Vol. 519 No. 2

Private Members' Business. - Electoral (Amendment) (Donations to Parties and Candidates) Bill, 2000: Second Stage.

I move: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

I propose to share my time with Deputy Gilmore. On Easter Monday I identified six issues that must be addressed in the short term to reverse the loss of confidence in politics following the revelations of both tribunals of inquiry.

The six issues I identified were a ban on corporate funding for politics, the introduction of tax clearance certificates for Oireachtas Members, legislation to provide for the registration of lobbyists, the early enactment of the Whistleblowers Protection Bill, reform of the law on corruption and the introduction of a proper system of State funding for political parties and for politics.

We have chosen, in our first available Private Members' slot in this session, to introduce the Electoral (Amendment) (Donations to Parties and Candidates) Bill, 2000, because it goes to the heart of the problems identified in the hearings of various tribunals of inquiry – the corrosive financial relationship between big business and some parties in this House and between big business and a number of current and former Members of the House. However, I emphasise that we see this measure as just one part of the package of reforms I outlined earlier. The Labour Party wants to see all these measures enacted at the earliest possible date.

That there has been a dramatic loss of public confidence is undoubted. Many of us are on record for many years as having warned of the corrosive and unhealthy atmosphere generated by our reliance on private and corporate funding because when it comes to fundraising, whether for charities, voluntary bodies, universities or political parties, those with the largest discretionary disposable incomes are inevitably targeted.

In most cases it was normal for political donations to be made confidentially, which is no longer possible as a result of reforming measures such as the Ethics in Public Office Act and the 1997 Electoral Act, introduced, coincidentally, by Labour Party Ministers, lest their donations were interpreted as support for any particular party or candidate. No doubt some donors were genuinely motivated by a desire to support the political process in general terms.

Private funding inevitably tends to favour larger, well established parties – the corporate sector, in particular, tends to favour the party it sees as the future senior partner in any coalition Government. This is not a case of me or my party waving our fingers at those on the other benches. For the record, I want to make it clear again that my party and its representatives have solicited and received donations from private sources. In the absence of a system of State funding, we will probably be forced to continue to do so. We do not believe every businessman or even every property developer is a crook, nor do we claim that every sum of money exceeding £999 must represent the proceeds of crime or that the only honest cheque is the wage cheque of a PAYE taxpayer.

However, this system of funding has always been undemocratic. It has now been brought to such a level of disrepute that it can no longer continue, but in the absence of direct change, continue it will. In the Haughey era the suspicion grew that donations and possible wholesale corruption in public life were linked – that decisions of public bodies engaged in the public business were routinely bought and sold for private profit. Without proof we were unable to say so clearly. The extent to which these decisions have been dealt with simply as just another set of tradeable commodities to be brokered for private gain has shocked us all.

Apart from the current shocking disclosures at the Flood tribunal, we have previously learnt how a serving Taoiseach, Charles Haughey, was the recipient of funding from rich individuals and the corporate sector amounting to millions of pounds. We have also learned how a long serving Member of this House, Ray Burke, chosen by the current Taoiseach as recently as three years ago to fill the key position of Minister for Foreign Affairs, raised more than £118,000 in advance of the 1989 general election, at a time when most candidates would have spent considerably less than one tenth of that figure on an election campaign.

There seems no doubt either that some members of Dublin County Council sought and received bribes in return for favourable votes on crucial rezoning issues and that these people should and must be called to account. Those who sold their votes must be driven out of politics. Those who broke the law must face the consequences and should be shown no mercy.

However, I accept that many of those who received money from Mr. Dunlop were receiving what they believed were, in their own definition, "normal political contributions" and that no favours were granted in return for the money. They may have shown very poor political judgment in accepting donations from a man who played such a crucial role in securing support for controversial rezonings and would have been far better off had they, like Deputy Rabbitte, said: "Thank you, but no thanks" and sent the money back. It is extraordinary that Deputy Rabbitte, the one individual who was offered money by Mr. Dunlop and returned it, has been singled out for such attack over the past week.

However, given what we now know from the report of the McCracken tribunal and from the hearings before the Moriarty and Flood tribunals, it is incumbent on the political parties to attempt a restoration of some degree of confidence in the integrity and impartiality of public administration in this State. We should also set ourselves a deadline for action which is realistic and achievable. By the time the Dáil rises for the summer, all the crucial decisions about what we need to do will have had to be taken and tomorrow night's vote will be one of them. I have been happy to discuss the issues with the Government and other Opposition parties, but the Labour Party will not be party to any drawn out process, designed solely to delay the implementation of necessary measures. The last time that happened, Fianna Fáil used the time to raise over £2 million to clear its debts.

Regarding the proposals set out in this Bill, the Labour Party makes no apology for tackling first of all the party funding issue and, in particular, the corrosive and destructive effect on the political process of its reliance on private sources to fund its activities. The Public Offices Commission recently stated that we have one of the finest electoral governance systems in Europe. Perhaps it is too early to make a judgment on that, as the Electoral Act, for instance, has never fully applied in a general election, but we have been happy to base this Bill on the firm foundation of that Act.

The Labour Party's track record on these issues is clear. As far back as 1991 we introduced a Private Member's Bill to provide for disclosure of the interests of public representatives and of donations to political parties. The Bill was rejected out of hand by the Fianna Fáil-Progressive Democrat Government as "obnoxious" and probably unconstitutional. We were accused of generating unfounded fears and of seeking to legislate for issues that simply did not arise in 1991. Notwithstanding tribunal revelations, I suspect the same arguments will surface again over the coming months.

Constitutionality has arisen at each and every stage of the campaign to clean up politics and has been raised as an obstacle at every stage of the reform process. The Government's statement of yesterday evening states that there are constitutional issues involved, but that is a statement of the obvious. There are always constitutional issues involved in any legislative proposals. Constitutional concerns have informed the drafting of this Bill and we believe it to be sensitive to the delicate balance between competing rights that is necessary in these circumstances.

Yesterday, I attended a meeting with the Taoiseach and other party leaders. I accept that there was genuine concern on behalf of the leaders of the parties about the difficulties the political process is now in, but I was struck by the absence of any real concrete proposals from Fianna Fáil to deal with the issues. I regard the decision by the Government not to support the Bill as an act of bad faith. It is simply not good enough to defer for a further six months decisions in principle on issues such as corporate funding.

In the course of recent weeks the Taoiseach made an argument which he can scarcely take seriously himself let alone expect others to do so. He claimed that corporate donations should be retained because their abolition would disadvantage poorer politicians. In other words, according to the Taoiseach's analysis, reliance on individual donations would benefit those who moved in circles where individuals had money to spare. However, companies which apparently by definition have more than enough money to spare are in a position to bestow their bounty indiscriminately for the benefit of rich and poor alike. Of course this is complete nonsense. There can be no doubt that corporate donations go dispro portionately to parties already well established within the political system, particularly to those established in Government. By their very nature such donations are skewed. I put it to the Taoiseach that he does not want to do away with corporate donations because it is on such donations that his party's political hegemony is built.

I welcome the support of the Fine Gael Party for the Bill on Second Stage, notwithstanding its reservations. There seems to be a genuine misunderstanding between us on one issue. We are not arguing that corporate donations alone should be banned so that, for example, a firm of accountants or solicitors could give money to a party but an incorporated firm of engineers could not. Our Bill does not mention companies or corporations. What we propose is that registered electors could use their own resources, not their trading income, to make a donation to their party in the same way as they support their parish, football club or residents' association.

While I welcome Fine Gael support, I do not accept the argument it has advanced that no distinction can be made between corporate and individual funding. Individual citizens are the subject matter of politics. Citizens have the right to form parties, support them, canvass for them and run as their candidates. I do not believe it is either right, proper or necessary, to try to break that link between a party and its members and supporters. Individuals are political personages, corporations are not. Individuals can have strong political convictions, corporations rarely do. Individuals have socio-economic and political rights, corporations in effect do not.

Whether it is fair, the public perception is that the relationship between business and politics has become poisonous. That in itself should be sufficient for it to end. A ban would be good for politics and it would also be good for business. Nevertheless, I understand the concern expressed by the Green Party, a long time opponent of corporate funding, that provision for individual donations will allow people circumvent the ban on corporate donations. The Bill represents our best thinking on the issues involved and I am happy to hear the views of others who accept the principles that underlie it.

I spoke earlier about our efforts to comply with the constitutional obligations of fairness. Individual citizens have rights and one of them is to participate in the political process. It is precisely for this reason that we did not set the cap on individual donations even lower in the Bill. A system solely financed out of the public purse would suit the established parties well if that was to become the case. It would, however, be fundamentally unfair to newcomers to elections – individuals or parties – if they were barred from raising their own campaign funds while at the same time, for want of any track record, they were ineligible to receive public funds other than the existing recoupment. We need to find an appropriate balance here and I am open to hearing the views of others on how precisely that could be achieved.

Recoupment of election expenses after the event goes some way to meeting the needs of independent candidates and smaller parties. The proportion of expenses which can be recouped this way should be increased, but a rule that the only money which could be spent on elections would be by way of a State grant would serve only to benefit the parties currently entitled to such money to the exclusion of all others.

Our party's position is that nothing less is required than a complete break between party expenditure and corporate funding. For constitutional reasons and so as not to disadvantage non-party candidates, we do not propose to ban donations made from the after tax income of private individuals. As the law stands, for example, even the £5 membership sub paid by members of the Labour Party constitutes an individual donation. Our proposal is that a party or a candidate should not be permitted to receive any donation except from a registered elector. In other words, both corporate and overseas donations would be absolutely prohibited.

The Tánaiste stated recently that the banning of corporate funding is an issue she is prepared to consider. However, when it comes to backing up those fine words with actions, she has again been found wanting. Again the Attorney General appears to be holding sway. Some people in the Progressive Democrats have argued that the party could not have got off the ground were it not for financial assistance from the corporate sector. I would point to the history of the foundation of that party as promulgated by itself. Within its first year its founders, for whom I have genuine regard, addressed capacity audiences at conference halls, theatres, hotels and leisure centres throughout the State. It very quickly became the fastest growing political movement in the State. It had in that early stage all the characteristics of a mass political movement. Yet the lease on its first headquarters was secured on foot of personal guarantees entered into by its trustees, including the current Attorney General. There is no room in this version of the story, which has some factual basis, for the theory that the Progressive Democrats would not have survived its first year without help from corporate godfathers. Certainly, the new mass membership which it was seeking to attract to a new form of politics was never informed of such a fact.

This version of history also ignores the reality that the Progressive Democrats was at that stage seeking to compete with established parties with even better access to the boardrooms of Ireland than it had. In other words, it was seeking to join a game played according to pre-determined rules, rules that go further to prevent the entry into politics of any new political force than anything proposed this evening.

As regards overseas donations, there simply would be no point in reforming the donations system at home if the continued distortion in the political process caused by overseas fundraising continued. The UK has banned such donations and we should follow suit. My party has benefited in the past from contributions made by socialist and social democratic parties in other parts of Europe. We and other parties should forego contributions from abroad in preference for strengthening the links between parties and citizens active in the State. As in the equivalent British legislation, special arrangements would have to be made in respect of parties registered in Northern Ireland.

Overall, the purposes of our Bill are to restrict the making of political donations to registered electors; to reduce the threshold above which disclosure of donations must be made from the existing limits of £4,000 to a party and £500 to an individual, down to £1,000 and £250 respectively; to limit the amount which may be so donated – £2,000 to a party, including all its candidates, and £1,000 to an individual; to limit to £2,000 the amount that can be paid to a political party by way of membership fee by an affiliated organisation; to remove the existing prohibition on the spending by political parties of public money at elections; and to provide for an annual statutory audit by the Comptroller and Auditor General of public moneys paid to political parties.

As regards the Labour Party and its structural links with the trade union movement, which appear to be news to the Minister for Social, Community and Family Affairs, Deputy Ahern, we propose that where the constitution of a political party provides for independent unincorporated organisations of individuals to be members of that party, an annual membership fee may be lawfully paid. However, that membership fee, as is the case at the moment, would be classified as a donation and would, therefore, be capped at £2,000 regardless of the number of members of the affiliated organisation. No further financial assistance in cash or in kind would be permissible above the annual £2,000 membership fee.

I want to make it clear from the outset that in proposing these measures I start from an underlying position to which I am absolutely committed. I believe in the political process and in party politics. Political parties have a function which is essential as well as honourable. A democracy cannot function without properly incorporated political parties. They are the means by which people fulfil their roles as citizens, organise themselves to participate in public life, promote and implement social, economic and cultural goals and decide upon questions of national policy. They serve the common good. Any laws to regulate and control the funding of political parties in the public interest should recognise this proposition as a basic starting point.

It is for this reason I have always called for public funding of political parties not just to remove the temptations inherent in a system of unregulated private funding, but because the party political process, as a vital component of the wider democratic process, in its own right, is worthy of recognition, respect and support. I recall writing a piece for the Sunday Tribune in the late 1980s on this subject.

We have not included in this package any proposal to increase the amount provided by way of State payments to political parties. It is clear that such an increase is required in the context of the ban on corporate donations and the cap on the size of donations from individuals which I propose. However, that quid pro quo for my proposals is one which, for constitutional reasons, can come only from the Government. Opposition parties, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle as you would clearly indicate to us, cannot introduce Bills which involve a limited increase in Exchequer funding. It is acceptable to increase the existing Exchequer subvention as a substitute for funds from private sources. While considerable State funding exists, the system compels parties to raise private funds by debarring them from using those public moneys at election time. The parties, however, receive a refund of approximately one third of expenditure from the Exchequer for candidates who receive a quarter of a quota at an election.

I do not pretend this set of proposals is exhaustive, amounts to the last word in this area or is incapable of improvement. However, reform along these lines is urgently required. The House must be seen to be capable of reacting swiftly, firmly and coherently to the present crisis in public confidence if we are to retain any entitlement to call ourselves public representatives.

The Government's response has been disappointing. It seems designed to muddy the waters. It is important that the thrust of these measures be accepted in principle by the House. The details can be worked on. For example, the idea that the Attorney General should be charged with beginning afresh on the lobbyists Bill is a nonsense. Such a Bill will be introduced during this session and the Taoiseach can accept it or vote it down. The manner in which the Government is reacting to this legislation is entirely consistent with the opposition that Fianna Fáil mounted to virtually every Bill aimed at institutional reform pioneered by the Labour Party, including the Ethics in Public Office Act, 1995, the Freedom of Information Act, 1997, and the Electoral Act, 1997. When we were in Government with Fianna Fail, it sought to delay or water them down. When Fianna Fáil was on this side of the House, its opposition was more direct. The themes were those we hear again now – unconstitutional, over-regulation, unfair to the taxpayer.

I referred to the first reforming Bill we introduced in this area in 1991, the Ethics in Public Office Bill. I hope that Fianna Fáil Members will read some of the comments they made on that modest legislation and that they will cringe with embarrassment. The current Attorney General and then Progressive Democrats Party spokesperson, Michael McDowell, described the Electoral Bill, 1997, as a "theoretical, ideological statist Bill, designed to stop political parties from being independent of the State". Such intemper ate and ludicrous but deeply felt comments do not inspire confidence in the willingness of this Administration to deliver the sort of institutional reform that the political system needs if it is to survive and recover the confidence of the public.

The public is once again looking to this House for action but it is getting inaction. The premise underlying the Government's proposal is that these issues are new and require further consideration. The reality is different. This debate has been part and parcel of political life for the best part of a generation. It figured prominently, for instance, in the 1989 general election campaign. It is an issue that Deputy Fleming has obviously considered at length from the vantage point of one personally involved as the financial controller of the Fianna Fáil Party in Mount Street prior to his election to the House in 1997.

How typical of this Government and this Taoiseach that they are not ready yet to rise to the challenge. No doubt its amendment will give it six months grace, but it will be six months in which the reputation of politics suffers further. Make no mistake, the Labour Party will not be party to any proposals that do not ban the corporate funding of politics. We need to move with haste on the principles underlining this legislation and work together on the details to make sure we get the best legislation possible.

Sooner or later this Labour Party proposal to ban corporate donations to political parties and politicians will become law and this House will pass the legislation proposed by the party. It will do so because the tide has already turned on the corporate funding of politics, and because already, even in Fianna Fáil, which opposes the measure, Members such as Deputy Fleming and the Minister for Social, Community and Family Affairs, Deputy Ahern, have spotted the change. Even the Government amendment acknowledges that the House must pass legislation and the Government is postponing the evil day.

The sooner the House passes this legislation the better for politics. This Bill, which the Labour Party signalled as far back as its annual conference more than a year ago, is being debated against the bleak backdrop of property interests corrupting public decision making by bribing the votes and decisions of elected and appointed public servants. Even if there was no suggestion of corruption, the time to break the financial link between business and politics is long overdue.

Contrary to what some commentators would have us believe, the corporate funding of political parties and political campaigns is not the third secret of Fatima. It has been well known that some companies were paying political contributions to parties and individual campaigns over a long period and until recently these were generally regarded, as Mr. Justice Hamilton famously put it in the beef tribunal report, as "normal political donations". The practice should be ended because the corporate funding of the political process has, at the very least, distorted political competition.

Until the enactment of the Electoral Bill, 1997, which was introduced in the Oireachtas by Deputy Howlin, there was no limit to what a party or a candidate could spend in an election campaign. While the level of election spending and votes received did not positively correlate in each case, it is clear that the parties with the greatest financial resources got the highest number of seats in elections.

It was always difficult, and sometimes impossible, for a candidate or party with limited resources to compete with the expensive advertising and professional campaigning of the larger party, with its corporate funded war chest. A candidate or a party might have a worthy message or set of policies at election time, but how were they expected to communicate them effectively to the electorate during the three weeks of an election campaign? Money enabled candidates and parties to talk at election time and those whose messages were heard best were those who could afford the costs of communicating. The corporate funding of political parties significantly influenced the outcome of elections and the formation of Governments.

If the first distortion of politics caused by corporate funding related to elections, the second relates to policy and ideology. It is not an accident that the parties which have received and still receive the overwhelming bulk of corporate funding are those which are generally perceived to be pro-business. In a way, the corporate funding of the more conservative parties in this State has been itself the justification for trade union funding – limited though it is – of the Labour Party. As a former trade union official, I recall debates at union conferences about the establishment and existence of a political fund. Put very simply, the argument was that if employers were going to promote their collective economic interests by funding political parties, workers also needed to have a political arm to which the trade unions contributed.

It is not surprising that this country is unique in Europe in that we have never had a Labour-led Government and that traditionally the Labour Party and its allies on the left have been the third force in Irish politics, behind Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael. This aspect of the country's political history is not unrelated to the fact that the Labour Party has always had to contest elections against uneven odds and never had the same financial resources for organisation or electioneering as the two larger parties. Neither is it an accident that the dominant ideological consensus has been that whatever was good for business was good for the country.

The third distortion of politics to which corporate funding has contributed is the decline in public confidence in our democracy, and it is the most worrying. What began as a tangible declaration of class allegiance, or perhaps a sense of duty to fund politics generally, has, it appears, in some cases, degenerated into a straight corrupt trading of votes for money. To restore confidence in politics we need to end the corporate funding of political parties. The days of corporate funding of political parties are probably numbered anyway. Huge and welcome changes are beginning to overtake the traditional relationship between citizens and the representatives they elect to local authorities and to parliament. Information and communication are the oxygen and life-blood of politics.

Up to now, communication between the politician and the citizen has been mediated through the mass media and advertising. The communication of political messages has become an expensive business requiring political parties and politicians to compete not only with each other but also with the whole consumer array available to the public. Policies, serious political discussion, and the exchange and debate of ideas must give way to the sound-bite, the advertised image and the spin. Marketing has become the centre of political activity and it is expensive. To date it has been paid for in the main by contributions from the corporate sector. The signs are, however, that it is changing. New information and communication technology makes it possible for the citizen and the public representative to communicate with each other directly without the need for expensive advertising. That, coupled with the limits that have already been placed on election spending, will reduce the need for big campaigning war chests.

That is not to say money will not be required by political parties – of course it will, to fund research, develop policies and staff the new kind of communication cycle. The Labour Party believes this should now be done primarily through funding from the State. If we value our democracy we must fund it from public funds and in a way that is open and accountable. We also have to ensure that the individual citizen retains the right to contribute to political causes, including political parties. That in itself is a fundamental aspect of the right to organise.

The Bill confines the right to contribute to political parties to those who are entitled to register to vote. It, therefore, excludes corporate funding. It also excludes funding from outside the State. This is an important aspect of the Bill. How and by whom we are governed is a matter for the voters of the country and nobody else. That is what we call self-determination. There have been well documented stories of some political parties and single-issue campaigns seeking and raising significant sums of money, in the United States for example, for the purpose of influencing politics in this State. That should no longer be permitted. Lobbies of what ever kind in the United States or in any other country, have no right to buy political influence in this State either by funding political parties, individual candidates or single-issue campaigns. The Bill would prohibit that activity for the future.

I wish to refer to the proposed Government amendment. Like so much that we get from Fianna Fáil, the amendment is for everything, against nothing and proposes to do nothing about either. The amendment proposes to postpone consideration of Second Stage of the Bill until 1 December this year, which incidentally is a Friday and, therefore, not a sitting day. That is not the only evidence of Fianna Fáil's cynicism in this amendment, however. If what is being proposed in the legislation is not being opposed directly by the Government then why is it being postponed?

Hear, hear.

Is it being postponed for six or seven months so that Fianna Fáil can supplement the war chest before the legislation takes effect or is this another example of the Government staggering to the summer recess? Perhaps this is not really about the Government's view of funding political parties, but more a case of what is good for the good ship Fianna Fáil. Bertie the navigator is trying to get the vessel into a safe harbour—

I think the harbour he means is Freemantle.

—to repair the holes in the ship, trim a few sails, and maybe throw a few of the crew overboard before setting sail once more in the autumn. The forecast for the autumn is not very good. We are told there could be stormy weather ahead and some choppy seas.

It would be better for politics, for the Government and for Fianna Fáil if it was to accept Second Stage this evening rather than postponing it until December. We should not put off until then what needs to be done now. Whatever consideration may be given in future to the detail of the Bill, it can be done by agreeing Second Stage and referring it to a committee. What discussion and amendment has to be done can be undertaken at that stage. I appeal to Fianna Fáil, the Progressive Democrats and the Independents to accept the Bill. Incidentally, as this issue is not one that can bring about an election, there is no obligation on Independent Members to support the Government's position when the vote is taken tomorrow evening. I appeal to them to support this measure on Second Stage. It aims to ban corporate contributions to political parties, to put a new limit on declarations and on the amount that can be contributed by individuals, and to ban the funding of politics from sources outside the State.

I wish to share my time with Deputy John McGuinness and Deputy Michael Moynihan.

Is that agreed? Agreed.

I move amendment No. 1:

To delete all words after "That" and substitute the following:

"Dáil Éireann,

–conscious of the need as a matter of urgency to restore public confidence in the political system by the enactment of legislation to modernise and strengthen the criminal law relating to corruption, and noting the publication of the Government's Prevention of Corruption (Amendment) Bill, 2000, and further proposals for legislation to restate and amend the law in relation to corruption in public office published by Fine Gael and the Labour Party,

–noting the commitment of the Government to publish a Standards in Public Office Bill which will contain comprehensive proposals to reform and amend the law relating to standards in public office in accordance with the recommendations of the Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service and the Houses' Committees on Members Interests, and noting that the Bill will provide for the necessity for tax clearance certificates for persons elected to the Oireachtas,

–noting the proposals published for the regulation of lobbyists,

–conscious of the duty of the Oireachtas, when making laws relating to the funding of political parties to respect and vindicate:

–the constitutional rights of citizens to freely seek election, establish political parties, organise for political and democratic purposes within or without parties on terms of equality before the law, and free from arbitrary or invidious discrimination in relation to the provision of publicly funded support,

–the constitutional rights of independent candidates and candidates for new parties to organise politically between elections without being subject to invidious discrimination in favour of established political parties,

–the constitutional rights of citizens to freely form associations and to communicate to other citizens their political opinions and beliefs, and

–the constitutional rights of non-party organisations to freely campaign and participate in the democratic process by making their views on political issues generally known,

–conscious that the regulation of political parties and of the funding of political activities must respect democratic constitutional values as found in the Constitution and enunciated by the courts,

–noting the Government's commitment to reaching, so far as possible, a general consensus among the parties and individual members of the Houses of the Oireachtas, and

–noting the commitment of the Government to the immediate establishment of an all-party committee to consider:

–in the first instance, the eight legislative proposals already announced relating to the funding of political activity, both between and during elections [a Standards in Public Office Bill; the Registration of Lobbyists (No. 2) Bill, 1999; the Electoral (Amendment) (Donations to Parties and Candidates) Bill, 2000; the Public Representatives (Provision of Tax Clearance Certificates) Bill, 2000; three Prevention of Corruption Bills and the Local Government Bill, 2000],

–further measures to prevent corruption in public office,

–the need for statutory regulation of lobbying activities,

–the protection of "whistleblowers" and related matters,

–noting the proposal to appoint an expert group in consultation with the party leaders to assist and advise that committee. The terms of reference will require it to report back to the party leaders not later than 30 September 2000, so that all necessary legislative changes can be introduced and considered by the Houses of the Oireachtas not later than 31 December 2000,

and

–with a view to facilitating a fully considered constitutionally valid and comprehensive legislative response to public concerns about corruption in the political process and public administration,

postpones the Second Reading of the Electoral (Amendment) (Donations to Parties and Candidates) Bill, 2000, until 1 December 2000".

It is clear that this Bill is motivated by the current climate of revelations in relation to contributions and payments to politicians. Make no mistake about it, the recent revelations of corruption are intensely damaging to every politician, irrespective of whether they ever took a contribution, legitimate or otherwise. As for the general public, the revelations have sickened people of all ages and across the political divide.

Against that background, it is incumbent on me, as the opening contributor from this side of the House, to begin by reiterating the clear position of the Government. Our message is short and simple. It is unambiguous and unequivocal. Corruption or wrongdoing have no place in public life. It is immaterial whether it is an office-holder, a TD, a Senator, a councillor or an official that is involved. Corruption is anathema to the whole concept of public service. Those engaged in corrupt practices are not public servants; they are self-servants. Their actions give legitimacy to the old question, Quis custodiet ipsos custodes – who will guard the guards?

In looking at the problem of corruption eating away at the foundations of trust throughout the political system, there is a real danger that we will choose a solution that is simple, straightforward and wrong. What we must achieve – and I agree with the Labour Party on this – is an urgent solution but we must also achieve a right solution. It is a combination of these two objectives which is behind the comprehensive amendment I have moved on behalf of the Government. The amendment has two main features. First, it sets out the agenda which will ensure that all of the complex issues involved can be considered in a comprehensive manner through an all-party framework and supported by an expert advisory group. Second, it sets down a timetable for the completion of the committee's work which is as ambitious as the urgency of the situation demands.

I want to make it clear that the Government has decided that the all-party committee and the expert advisory panel will be provided with whatever assistance they require by officials of my Department and the Departments of Finance and Justice, Equality and Law Reform who are familiar with the full range of issues involved in the eight legislative measures referred to in the amendment. My colleagues, the Minister for Finance and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, will also contribute to this debate and will deal with the issues of standards in public office and prevention of corruption in more detail. Given that my responsibility is for the electoral code, I want to focus on the issue of funding the political system.

Despite what might be said here by the Labour Party, the funding of the political system is a complex matter. The Labour Party Members found that out for themselves when they were in Government trying to get the Electoral Bill of 1997 through the Houses. Not all of the delay that occurred in the passage of that Bill was caused by a robust Committee Stage—

It is still robust – in private, not in public.

—in which Deputy Howlin, myself and the then Deputy Michael McDowell participated. Several issues had to be teased out and the then Minister found that there were constitutional issues that he could not quite overcome. This is not a simple matter. It is complex and we must consider this issue—

Not a bad effort.

It was not a bad effort; I think we made a great job of it in the circumstances. We must consider this issue in today's legal framework and not in the framework which existed when the nefarious deeds which are emerging from the Flood tribunal took place. The Labour Party can take credit for the fact that we are talking about deeds that took place ten years ago but we are now in a different situation in terms of our political system.

The fact is that the regulatory context in which we operate today is substantially different from that of a few years ago. The Ethics in Public Office Act, 1995, the Electoral Act, 1997, and the Freedom of Information Act, 1997, provide a radically improved backdrop to the conduct of public affairs. There is now a transparent regime for disclosure which applies to political parties, Oireachtas Members, MEPs and councillors.

As regards the disclosure of donations provisions of the Electoral Act, 1997, I am not aware of any major problems with their implementation, although I know certain parties had some difficulty in complying with the provisions. The matter was raised with them by the Public Offices Commission, and it was not Fianna Fáil.

If it were the case that the current legislative provisions in the Electoral Act, 1997, were shown to be deficient in some major respect, there may be an argument for change. The reality, however, is that the current system of disclosure is working well and we are committed to building on that system with the local government Bill, which introduces comprehensive ethics provisions – based on disclosure – for local councillors and officials.

The reality that disclosure works has been overlooked as people become focused on the issue of whether the time has come for a fundamental shift in policy involving the introduction of a ban on corporate donations. On the face of it, a ban on corporate donations with compensatory public funding for political parties is a simple solution but there are fundamental issues surrounding the concept of a ban on donations. The first one is a definition of "corporate". Does it include partnerships, sole traders, business associations? Do we ban donations from all businessmen and women? Who will believe us if company A is banned from giving a donation but the six directors of such a company are allowed to give so-called personal donations?

There is another problem. The Bill applies to donations to candidates for elections, etc. It does not apply to donations to persons who are not candidates at the time of the donation.

That is something we could deal with by way of an amendment.

There are major legal, practical and financial implications for the operation of the political process which have to be taken into account in any meaningful consideration of the options. For instance, what about the rights of freedom of expression enshrined in the Constitution and in the European Convention on Human Rights?

What about them?

If the Bill were to be enacted, what steps would be needed to ensure the political parties could control their local branches, officials and individual members without establishing large bureaucracies to watch over every penny a member of the party may receive? That is a major problem. It may not be much of a problem for some of the smaller parties, including the Labour Party—

That is exactly the argument we heard in 1997.

—but it is a major problem for the larger parties and has posed problems in implementing the 1997 Act.

We have moved on.

It should be clear that when we are talking about funding the political system with a complete ban on donations we are talking not just about funding the political parties as they are in this House but funding political parties at constituency level also, if we are to go down that route. Perhaps that is the route we will take but we have to debate these matters and they have to be teased out.

How much public money will the measure cost? In the current climate, would taxpayers be happy to see their taxes funding political parties?

Yes, they would.

I hope the Deputy is right. It will make life much easier for most of us who spend a lot of time raising funds for parties. We have a leadership role to play in this matter. In the current climate taxpayers are more likely to say that they have found out that politicians in the past were corrupt, and they are now making us pay the cost to keep them honest. Most people will know the reaction of the public to that.

That is a bit shallow from the Government.

How could we ensure that the funds would be distributed in an equitable manner? How would the proposals affect the growth of existing and new political parties? Even the Labour Party has recognised that this could be a problem. What implications would the proposal hold for policy development, and would it leave political parties at a disadvantage in comparison to the sophisticated, high powered lobbying interests that are out there?

That is why we have the lobbyists Bill.

In a ban environment, there is a risk that we will witness an increase in the phenomenon of third party expenditure by corporate interests in support of certain political beliefs. At the end of the day, is it likely the public will see any difference between a donation to a party or an individual person from a prominent business person who is registered as an elector, and a similar donation from the company of which the same person is the principal? These are all legitimate questions which need to be discussed at the committee we are setting up.

We set the principles.

It is important that the questions are addressed properly and fully and that we do not have a knee-jerk reaction to a situation which is obviously very serious. It is, therefore, clear that any moves to restrict or ban private contributions to political parties require careful consideration. The issues involved are central to the workings of the political system and democracy. The amendment I moved is based on the Government's firm belief that the issues involved should be given the urgent and full consideration they deserve.

If that is the Minister's idea of urgent, I am sorry he is in charge of the fire brigade.

This is what we ultimately need in the corpus of our legislation. We do not need a band aid for one particular cut in the body politic but rather a comprehensive and aspirational approach which does not just say, "You will not do this and you will not do that" but which articulates for all time the standards we require of our politicians at the beginning of the 21st century.

In defence of Taca 2000.

The fundraising methods of the Fine Gael Party during 1995 and 1996 would put Taca in the shade.

That is an inappropriate and unfounded comment.

I emphasise that the Government, despite what the Labour Party is saying, is not opposing this Bill. We are simply seeking to postpone its Second Reading until 1 December, by which time we can achieve, as far as possible, a well thought out consensus on the issues before us – careful consideration of serious issues. Ultimately this will be a good day's work for the Oireachtas. No party has exclusive rights to honesty and no party has exclusive rights to the solution of our problems. Therefore, the wisdom of all parties should be brought to bear on this matter so that we will achieve not only an urgent outcome but also a correct and lasting one.

Deputy Quinn referred to Fianna Fáil clearing its party debt and that we delayed the passage of the Electoral Act in 1997 to give us a chance to clear it. For the information of the Deputy and the House, Fianna Fáil has never cleared its party debt – it is still £1.6 million in debt.

That is a new £1.6 million.

No, it is the same £1.6 million.

Did the Minister not negotiate a delay of the Bill with us?

I did not negotiate a delay of the Bill with the Labour Party. If the Deputy recalls correctly, I was on a sub-committee of the Cabinet with him and Deputy Michael Smith, which tried to ensure that the Ethics in Public Office—

On a point of order, the Taoiseach refused to answer a question today on the grounds of Cabinet confidentiality. This principle should be applied—

That is not a point of order.

This is a constitutional issue, Sir, on which there has been a clear determination by the Supreme Court. The Minister should not be selective in his application of the Constitution.

I would not want to be selective in my application of the Constitution. I was not referring to a Cabinet sub-committee but to a committee of which Deputy Howlin, Deputy Michael Smith and I were members, which tried to advance the Ethics in Public Office Bill and the Electoral Bill.

The Government is not opposing the principle of this Bill. We want to deal with this matter in its proper context and achieve, if possible, all-party consensus on these important issues. This is why I moved the amendment to the motion and I request the House to support it.

I have spent 21 years in local government and my family has been associated with it since 1914 – this experience can be transposed to the other political parties – and I am appalled at the revelations emanating from the tribunal, as are the majority of those involved in politics, from every political party. We all want a resolution so this will not happen again. We also want those who are found guilty and have admitted wrongdoing expelled not only from Fianna Fáil but from the political system because they have done serious injury to the body politic.

Nobody involved in politics can defend or condone what has happened and the involvement of some people. Therefore, there is an onus on us all to ensure appropriate legislation is passed. This legislation needs to be far-reaching and must ensure these circumstances do not arise again. It is essential that the valid points made by the Labour Party, Fine Gael and the leadership of my party are fully debated and some form of consensus reached so that the best legislation can be drafted and passed by this House. Tonight's approach will not reach any conclusion in this regard.

We need to stand back from what is happening and begin to understand that the headlines in the paper and the media discussions are about our country. Sometimes it is hard to believe they are discussing Irish politics, which is, regrettably, the case. I am new to this House and I want to see the best outcome. The delay of Second Stage is the course of action upon which we should embark. During the time that allows us, we should ensure that we listen to the views of all political organisations, all those involved in politics and those interested in ensuring we have best political practice. Legislation should be introduced as quickly as possible after that. As a new Member, I want to contribute to that debate. The introduction of this Bill now does not give me the opportunity to deal in detail with the issues which confront us.

Second Stage is not enough.

We must remember that this problem and its resolution are complex. There is another factor in this equation – it is not only politicians who are before the tribunals. Some officials have come before them and admitted serious wrongdoing, perhaps more serious than that admitted by politicians. There must be audits of every political party, which are being conducted, as I understand from comments made by leaders of the parties. There should also be an audit of local government throughout the State because, given what has been said at the tribunals, this could have happened in any county. We need to look at the structures of all local authorities and identify if there was wrongdoing outside Dublin and if so, the people involved must be brought to book and the appropriate sanctions applied to them, be they officials or public representatives. That must happen because we need to repair the body politic.

The appropriate sanctions must be agreed. We may expel someone from a political party, from this House or the Seanad or we may ask people to resign their local government seats. We must also put in place the appropriate sanctions for officials. The whole system must be examined. The framework for that examination and those sanctions needs to be debated.

These events may have taken place ten years ago but we are dealing with the fall-out now. We are dealing with a situation which may still be continuing in some quarters. We need to find a resolution to this problem. I want to see this issue being debated, the best legislation being brought forward and confidence in politics in this State restored. This will only happen if we step back from this, examine the issue, debate it and then introduce the legislation.

As a new Member of this House, it gives me no joy to have to discuss this Bill. We must remember, in spite of the various revelations from tribunals, that since the foundation of the State many politicians of all political persuasions have served this country well. These revelations do them a great disservice.

This is a sad situation and it is our job to remedy it by implementing legislation and regulations which will ensure there will not be a similar debate in this House 20 years from now. I am sure a great deal of thought has gone into this Bill.

Does the Deputy accept the principle of the Bill?

So we are just delaying it until December?

We have always accepted the principle but we need time to tease this out—

It is called Committee Stage.

—and ensure the best possible legislation is introduced so we do not have to come back in two years time to amend it.

Many people would be of the opinion that all politicians are "at it". As serving politicians, we have done little to distance ourselves from such ideas, or to say that the vast majority of public representatives have served well the State and those who elected them. I am proud of that. In teasing out this legislation that is what we are trying to do.

There has been a frenzy of allegation and counter-allegation in the recent past. We should avoid knee-jerk reactions. Marry in haste and repent at leisure. The same can be said of this legislation. If we take this on board, we will spend the summer on Committee Stage repealing Acts and making many insertions. It would be better to take our time and come up with the proper legislation.

A very Augustinian approach.

St. Augustine got it right in the end. I doubt very much this crowd will get it right.

Would it not be better to have the best legislation going through the House at once instead of spending the whole summer—

Mr. Hayes

We may not reach December.

That is irrelevant. The point is that the best legislation will bring about all party support.

That can be done on Committee Stage.

Are we to spend the entire summer on Committee Stage?

Why not?

It would be a summer well spent.

We would be better off if we took plenty of time to negotiate this Bill, achieving consensus so the best legislation could be introduced in the Oireachtas.

While the Minister for the Environment and Local Government said the words that needed to be said, there was no sense that he realised the depth of the crisis facing the political system at present. There was no sense of urgency or moral outrage in his speech. Although the words he uttered were appropriate for the occasion, there was no feeling in them.

There is room for all of us in this debate. There is room for retrospection. We can all look back and ask if we did all we should have done about this at the time, if we asked all the questions that should have been asked. Generally, and I include myself in this, the answer is "no". I pay tribute, however, to the Deputies who raised the matter.

There is an assumption that this issue was only raised by one party. That is not quite so. Deputy Alan Shatter raised this matter in the House on several occasions. In 1989, when the Fianna Fáil-Progressive Democrats Government was in power, he demanded an inquiry into planning scandals in Dublin County Council. Deputy Shatter was accompanied in that demand by Deputies Gay Mitchell, Eamon Gilmore and Ruairí Quinn. It is important to reflect on the answer they received and who was entrusted by the Govern ment with the giving of the answer. On 9 November 1989 the words uttered were, "The Government has no plans to set up a judicial inquiry". Who spoke on behalf of Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats on that occasion, saying that the Government – so I presume the matter was discussed at Cabinet – had no plans to set up an inquiry and refusing a demand for an inquiry? It was none other than former Deputy Raphael P. Burke, the then Minister for Justice.

When the matter was raised subsequently in the House who, as Minister for the Environment of the day, also refused to set up an inquiry into planning in Dublin County Council? It was none other than former Deputy Pádraig Flynn. These were the two people who refused an inquiry when one was demanded by Deputies Shatter, Gay Mitchell, Gilmore and Quinn. The Ministers were supported in their refusal by the entire Fianna Fáil-Progressive Democrats Government at the time. As Ray Burke said, the Government had no plans to set up an inquiry, therefore, the matter was clearly considered by the Cabinet.

The Minister for the Environment and Local Government has been letting us know some of the intimate secrets of the Fianna Fáil-Labour Party coalition and his discussions in a Cabinet committee with the Minister, Deputy Michael Smith, and Deputy Howlin. Perhaps he might find out what was discussed at Cabinet in 1989 and 1990 when Ray Burke was empowered to say that the Government had no plans for an inquiry.

Who was Taoiseach then?

Is that not a matter of real importance?

Fine Gael supports the passage of Second Stage of the Bill, as presented by the Labour Party. While we have some reservations about elements of the Bill we wish to see it succeed tomorrow. The Bill needs radical change but we would like to see the details teased out on Committee Stage. Let the House and its committee system be seen to do the job of changing this Bill.

Recent allegations call for a comprehensive renewal of Irish politics – putting public service back where it belongs as the touchstone of political action. Legal measures alone, such as this Bill, will not be enough to achieve what is needed. What is also needed is a moral renewal in Irish politics, reaching back to the standards set by those who founded Irish political democracy in the 1920s and 1930s.

Every citizen has a responsibility for the political system. No one can retreat to his private world, as many may now be tempted to do, detached from politics, regarding it with uninvolved cynicism as they sip their Chianti in the back garden, regarding those who are involved in politics as beneath mention. In a democracy, everyone is a politician. Young people, in particular, have a responsibility to involve themselves in politics. The more incomes outside politics rise, the greater the financial cost of involvement in political life. That does not lessen the responsibility that rests on the best people of their generation to become involved in political life and to seek elected office. Young people must see politics as a vocation, above all as a calling to serve the public interest that makes it different from any job whose main purpose is the making of a living. Unless matters change, few young people will see Irish politics in that light, the light in which it must be seen if democracy is to be preserved. The aim of the measures which the Dáil must agree in the coming weeks must be that of making political life one to which the rising generation of young people will aspire.

This Bill is timely and worthwhile. Fine Gael would, however, go further than the Labour Party. Donations to political parties by wealthy individuals, unincorporated businesses, groups lobbying for particular interests or causes, professional partnerships, for example, solicitors, accountants and architects, are no different from corporate donations and should hardly be treated differently from them in legislation. If the limits for individuals and companies are set at different levels, companies who want to evade these limits will do so by giving funds to directors to enable them to make donations in an individual capacity. A donation by a private landowner – seeking rezoning, perhaps – is no different from a donation by a building company seeking to build on the land. Why should the limit placed on one donation be different from another? More discussion is required on the distinction being drawn between corporate and other donations in the Bill. That discussion can take place in committee. That is why we should pass the Bill on Second Stage.

If, as a result of an overall ban on private funding of parties, total Exchequer funding was to be provided then no donations at all would be allowed. If, on the other hand, some fundraising is to remain – and Fine Gael believes it should – then it must be controlled, carefully measured and accounted for. All donations, however small but subject to the difficulties of administrative convenience, should be disclosed. People should have nothing to hide in supporting democracy because in doing so they are supporting one of the highest callings. Donations above a limit should be banned, whether they come from companies, partnerships, or individuals.

Fine Gael believes that any Bill addressing this issue must, in addition, deal with three further matters. First, there must be a regulation of the benefits a party might derive from the links with other organisations which may provide them with political leverage, cross-subsidies or benefits in cash or kind. It should not be possible to evade the limits on cash donations by getting benefits in kind from an associated organisation.

Second, we must deal with the sourcing of donations or funding from individuals and companies based outside Ireland, as Deputy Gilmore has said. It would make no sense to have tight limits on local donations and none on foreign ones. Foreign donors are not accountable to Irish law, even when they have economic interests in Ireland and there is no way of finding out whether their motives are corrupt or otherwise. There must either be a ban on foreign donations or an effective means of applying the same controls to donations from outside the jurisdiction – and not necessarily overseas – as apply to local donations. Unless donations are under the control of the Oireachtas they should be banned.

Third, we must deal with the issue of the funding of groups which campaign against parties or individual candidates. These would have to be limited in the same way. If candidates are cash limited, there must be a limit on the funding of those trying to unseat candidates. This is not an academic issue. In a local election, a group campaigning against a dump might decide it wants to unseat a particular councillor. It would not be fair if he was limited in what he could spend and the group was not. A pro-life organisation might compile a list of six Deputies it wanted to defeat in an election. Should it be unlimited in the amount it could spend while the Deputies defending themselves could not raise or spend money? Clearly, that would not be fair. That is an issue that has to be dealt with in legislation of this nature.

The Ethics in Public Office Act defining the work and duties of the Public Offices Commission should be amended to allow it receive and publish from all parties the donations they receive from all sources above a certain very low limit. If there is to be an overall limit – let us take the figure of £3,000 proposed by Fine Gael, one can argue about the figure, I do not want to get bogged down about whether it should be £500 or £3,000 – we would be concerned that a particular individual in a particular county who wants to gain influence would make donations of £3,000 to Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael, the Labour Party, Sinn Féin and all the Independent candidates that he could think of—

That is comprehensive insurance.

—and spend up to five times as much as an individual supporting one party in securing a hearing for his point of view. Clearly, it is necessary to control the amount an individual donor might give as well as the amount a party or individual candidate might receive. Both issues have to be dealt with if there is to be equity in this matter.

On past occasions the House has shown that it can take action quickly. In government with my colleagues in the Labour Party and Democratic Left we faced a great crisis, but with the support of the Opposition, Fianna Fáil, we put through at great speed a great amount of legislation to deal with crime, some of which was proposed from these benches by Fianna Fáil. While there is no comparison between murder and the crisis we are facing – a life has not been lost, however great the scandal has been – it is a good example on which the Minister should reflect. The then Government which I was proud to lead was willing to accept Fianna Fáil Bills to help us deal with the crime crisis. We were also willing to introduce our own legislation and dealt with it as an emergency, but there is no sense of emergency tonight.

None whatsoever.

The Minister for the Environment and Local Government is not willing to accept the Labour Party Bill as a vehicle for change. Although he knew it went to the heart of the problem, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform recently rejected a Fine Gael Bill on corruption proposed by Deputy Flanagan. He was not willing to amend it. That small-minded attitude – if the ideas come from this side of the House, ignore them – remains.

As the ultimate expression of democratic governance in this State, it is very important that the House shows it can act, as a House, decisively on this issue, not in committees meeting in rooms where lawyers intimidate politicians, as happened not that long ago when people tried to parade their knowledge in order, almost, to silence the ultimate elected voice. It is very important that the politicians, the people elected to Dáil Éireann, take charge of this issue. We have the mandate, no one else has. Officials, Attorneys General, constitutional advisers, disputatious lawyers, the media, spin doctors and commentators do not have the ultimate responsibility, we do. We have got to show in our reaction tonight that we are taking charge of this issue.

Will the Minister who is both a reformer and radical thinker – he has produced much legislation which bears witness to this – reconsider the position his party is taking and accept and use the Bill as a vehicle for change? He may find in a month's time that he has to substitute another Bill for it because it is flawed in some fundamental way, but let us find that out, as politicians, rather than shove it away in a committee where the public will have no sense that the politicians are in charge and will think that all the Government is doing is creating some turgid machine to generate an umbrella under which it can hide from all the manure that may fall from the tribunals on its head.

This is not a pleasant time to be in politics. The scale of what has been revealed in the past few weeks and the further revelations yet to come demand a searching analysis of the practice of politics and a willingness to be radical in our approach to reform of the system. As practising politicians we must accept the reality of what has been revealed, deal effectively with the situation and put in place a programme of reform to prevent further abuse.

The reality of what has been exposed is dismal. A former Taoiseach and leader of Fianna Fáil is exposed as having been a kept man for much of his political life. His close supporters during the 1980s, including the Taoiseach, are under a cloud of allegation and rumour. Did those close to Mr. Haughey allow their conscience to be silenced by their ambition? As well as the disgrace visited upon the former Taoiseach in recent years, two senior Government Ministers were forced to resign because of financial irregularities. Allegations of the most serious nature have been made against present and past Members of the House. It is evident that the worm of corruption has buried deep into local government in the Dublin region.

As the tribunals of investigation continue their hearings, we are likely to hear new revelations which will further undermine the political system. These tribunals of investigation established by and responsible to the Dáil, not by the Taoiseach or Fianna Fáil, are part of the necessary cleansing of the political system.

In addition to the work of the tribunals, each political party has an obligation to deal with allegations of corruption within its own ranks in a thorough manner. The Taoiseach, as the leader of Fianna Fáil, the largest party in the Dáil and the major party in government, has a particular responsibility in this regard. We are entitled as Members of the House to ask how effective the Taoiseach has been in dealing with allegations of corruption within Fianna Fáil. How thorough have the investigations been to date? Has he managed to cleanse the major party in government of the taint of corruption? Are we still climbing trees in north Dublin? We await the report of the Leas-Cheann Comhairle with some interest.

The Leas-Cheann Comhairle is here—

I accept that it is coincidental that you are here but I hope you are listening because, as a Member of the House, I am entitled to put the question. The ability or unwillingness to deal effectively with corruption within his party gives rise to the most serious doubts about the capacity of the Taoiseach and the Government to lead a programme of reform.

Increased public funding to political parties must be part of a reformed political system. A legislative framework for political parties must also be part of the new dispensation. As regards public funding of political parties, the current annual subvention to parties is little more than a couple of million pounds. Let us compare this figure with the cost of the tribunals of inquiry in recent years – McCracken, Hamilton, Moriarty, Flood – which would be enough to finance the political parties under regulated terms for at least a quarter of a century. A reformed political system, even if it resulted in significantly increased public funding of political parties, would be a very small price to pay for a system free from recurring scandals. It would prevent the need for future costly public inquiries and would be money well spent.

Our responsibilities, as legislators, are clear-cut. We are both members and guardians of the political system. The case for reform is overwhelming. There is no argument in favour of waiting, as we have been told by Fianna Fáil. Our obligation to the electorate and ourselves is to hastily pursue a programme of political reform with energy, conviction and speed.

Debate adjourned.
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