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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 7 Jun 2000

Vol. 520 No. 4

Ceisteanna–Questions. - European Affairs.

John Bruton

Question:

2 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach the number of times the Cabinet Committee on European Affairs has met to date in 2000; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15760/00]

The Cabinet Committee on European Affairs has met four times this year and will meet again next Wednesday.

Is this committee overseeing the developments in the intergovernmental conference in preparation for the final adoption of the Treaty of Nice at the end of the year?

In the light of that, I ask the Taoiseach a number of questions about issues which are on the agenda for the—

Deputy Bruton, I draw your attention to the fact that this is a statistical question and that it is a long standing rule of the House that supplementary questions on policy issues are not raised on a statistical type question.

I have also amended to the question a request to the Taoiseach to make a statement on the matter.

According to Standing Orders, it is not appropriate to raise matters that were discussed by a committee which might impinge on matters specific or internal to Cabinet confidentiality.

I will put the question in another way. Does the Taoiseach agree that it would be a good idea to increase the frequency of the meetings between now and the summit in Nice in light of the very serious issues that are arising where there is a risk, for example, that Ireland might lose its member of the Court of Justice? There is a risk that the reinforced co-operation ideas that are being put forward could leave smaller countries or some individual countries on one side rather than the European Union moving ahead as a unit. In particular, will the Taoiseach comment on the position with regard to the number of Commissioners in the European Union as a result of the likely outcome of the Nice summit? Do we need more meetings of this committee in order to deal with these issues?

The rule is that I cannot discuss the agenda of the committee because of Cabinet confidentiality. I assure Deputy Bruton that the issues of the intergovernmental conference are now taking up far more time than the monthly meeting of the committee. The Minister for Foreign Affairs and I, as well as officials, have been discussing it. Other members of the Government have been discussing it and the Government is being briefed on those meetings. Because of the level of activity on the intergovernmental conference a great deal of discussion is taking place. Those issues centre around the matters we discussed last week – the Amsterdam leftovers; maintaining our Commissioner, which is still not agreed; the issues within the intergovernmental conference on the weighting of votes and the flexibility issues. These are all issues on which we have set down our position. Within the committee which has been working on this since February – the intergovernmental conference committee – we have set down our positions. I have done so publicly as well as here in the House.

The meeting in Feira will be an opportunity for us to sign off on our position regarding what is realistic to achieve in the second half of the year. We have taken a very straightforward view. We have said where we can move to and where we believe we should be moved to. I want to see the intergovernmental conference completed by Nice and if anyone holds back on any positions that creates difficulties. We must wait to see how the French will handle the Presidency. I met the French Finance Minister, Minister Fabius, who is taking a key role in the intergovernmental conference in France. A number of speeches have been made which I also discussed last week. There are roughly five central issues which will be on the agenda. We look forward to trying to make as much progress as we can in two weeks time in Feira.

Arising from the Taoiseach's replies, has the Government revised or changed its view in relation to the prospect of publishing a Green Paper setting out very clearly the Irish Government's position on the issues that are cur rently being debated? I know the Taoiseach made a comprehensive speech to the Institute of European Affairs but in view of the necessity to have an informed public who will have to vote in a referendum arising from the Treaty of Nice, does the Government now think it would be advisable if not desirable to publish a Green Paper setting out the Irish Government's position, as an interim contribution to the debate both at home and in the wider European context, perhaps at the end of the Portuguese Presidency, in the first week or so of July?

I do not want to rule out that. No one has done so. Both the Minister for Foreign Affairs and myself have set out our negotiating position more than most countries and have almost brought it to a final state. Many other countries are sitting on the fence in terms of where they will go. I do not see much point in that because, if we are to complete it by Nice, we should be progressing with it. Later this evening I will discuss the issues at length with Antonio Guterres.

We need to get a clear line. The issues involve the Commission and the argument about whether it should be commissioners for the full group or whether there should be a first and second line similar to Ministers and Ministers of State. Another issue is qualified majority voting. We have moved our position on that, as we have on the weighting of votes. Another issue is flexibility, and if I could understand what everyone means by it—

What they want it for.

—I would be happier. I have been trying hard to find that out, and they devised a new word over the weekend, although I cannot recall what it is.

Reinforced co-operation.

Yes. What does that mean precisely?

In the old days it used to mean the exclusion of small countries.

If a person said that to me directly, then I would know my position.

It also means excluding Great Britain.

I do not see the sense in one of the first decisions of the process of enlargement being that small groups of larger countries would dictate policy, with other member states on the outside from day one. That is not the way to go about creating constructive enlargement. I do not want to rule out what the Deputy said. I would be glad to do it and we could do it easily enough from where we are at.

A final supplementary from Deputy Barrett.

Could the Taoiseach arrange for members of the Cabinet committee on European affairs to meet the Joint Committee on European Affairs, especially prior to COSAC meetings so the representatives who attend the COSAC meetings have a greater understanding of the Government's thinking on certain matters? We went to the trouble of ensuring that COSAC would be a recognised body under the treaties. Therefore, I am sure the Taoiseach would agree with me that it is essential that the Government keeps in constant contact with the Joint Committee on European Affairs.

Yes, I accept that.

Will the Taoiseach arrange for that?

Does the Taoiseach agree the provisions for reinforced co-operation or flexibility already exist in the treaty and that the only difficulty from the point of view of some countries is that there must be unanimity to trigger them? Will he indicate if any of the advocates for the triggering of reinforced co-operation without unanimity have produced a single concrete example of something they want to do which they are not able to do at present because of the inoperability of the existing arrangements for reinforced co-operation?

"No" is the answer to that question. The case has been made for flexibility, now reinforced co-operation, for 12 months. I have my suspicions about what is the real agenda. It has not been put forward in any statements by the main players or the people behind this move. It will be put forward in the next Presidency, but it has not yet been put forward. The case seems to be made on the basis that, because enlargement will be so substantial, with a total of 27 or 28 countries, the pace of movement will be too slow in certain areas and that the only way for people to keep the system up and running is to allow groups make individual decisions. That is fraught with danger. That should be an issue that is thought out as part of the enlargement process. Already one could argue that the Euro-11 Group creates its own difficulties without going into the euro argument. It would be far better if everybody was in on that and I hope that will be the case as the year goes on. There might be some other agendas and perhaps at Feira the real agenda will be pushed out.

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