Vol. 522 No. 4
I move amendment No. 1:
In page 3, line 22, to delete "or any date earlier in that year" and substitute "or any earlier date (but not earlier than 1 November 1986)".
This amendment is designed to cover the one employee who was excluded because of the way the Bill was originally drafted. It was drafted with the help of John Slevin.
Is the Tánaiste satisfied that only one person was overlooked and that further amendments will not be required?
Yes, we are satisfied that everyone else is covered.
Do I take it the £20,000 lump sum will be paid in full and that it will not be subject to capital gains tax or other forms of tax? Will each of the former employees receive a cheque or a draft for £20,000?
Yes, they will each receive £20,000 in the very near future. Assuming that the President signs the Bill next week, the committee will be put in place and the money will be paid. We will be able to identify the majority of former employees quite rapidly with the assistance of John Slevin and others. The reason it is necessary to establish a committee to deal with some of the procedures is to identify others who may come forward at a later date.
Do I take it from the Tánaiste's latter remark that this matter will be dealt with by the Department of Finance, which is represented on the committee, and that the normal rules that apply in respect of redundancy payments – cut-off points for the payment of tax, etc. – will not apply in these circumstances?
Yes, that is the case. The normal redundancy provisions apply here. The lump sum will be paid by way of a cheque for £20,000. Former workers with long service will not have to pay any tax, while those workers with short service may have to pay some tax. A person with five years service or less may have to pay £1,000 tax. However, that depends on their financial situation.
The Tánaiste stated earlier that no tax, capital gains or otherwise, would apply. Why would workers with short service be obliged to pay tax?
No capital gains or other tax will be deducted by us. Everyone will receive a £20,000 lump sum. We do not envisage that many people will be obliged to pay tax.
I had previously thought a personal representative would be a spouse or a son or daughter. However, many of the women who will gain from this are single and if some of them have died a niece or nephew may be their personal representative. Who is responsible for deciding which personal representative collects the money? Does the Tánaiste foresee that difficulties could arise in this regard and that the money might not be paid in time? Is there an arbitration system in place to deal with such difficulties?
In the case of a deceased person, it will be the executor or administrator of the per son's will. That could be a friend, sister, brother, niece or nephew, virtually anybody in fact. If no such executor or administrator exists—
The executor could be deceased and three or four nieces could turn up.
The idea is that everybody would be entitled to the £20,000. If a situation arises where some of the 147 people involved do not come forward, we will seek the assistance of Mr. John Slevin and others to identify them.
How soon does the Minister envisage this committee holding its first meeting?
The first meeting will probably be held towards the end of next week or the beginning of the following week.
On the two month period, the Minister did not outline how she planned to track people down, apart from saying that she already has many of the names. I urge the Minister to publish at least one set of newspaper advertisements to make people aware of this matter. The two month period will run from the 4-5 July until the 4-5 September. The summer months are not a time when people usually read the newspapers, listen to the radio or deal with their finances or paperwork. As public representatives, we are aware that residents' associations etc. take a rest during those months, thereby allowing us to take a rest too. The two months of the year in which people will have to make this application will be the two holiday months so there is an additional onus on the Minister to ensure that people are identified quickly within the two month period. I would hate to see somebody discovering on 11 September that they are too late to apply.
The Minister can extend the time period. The reason for the two month limit is to try to deal with this matter quickly and to bring it to finality sooner rather than later. We will advertise in the media to ensure, as far as possible, that everybody concerned is informed. However, if somebody were to come forward after the two month period, I am sure the Minister, be that me or somebody else, would be reasonable in the circumstances and extend the time limit.
Mrs. Owen: The Minister's last statement was an interesting one.
I am trying to cover all options; the Deputy should not read anything else into what I said.
I thank the departmental officials who took on this task for doing an outstanding job in bringing this legislation to this stage so quickly.
This is a good day's work. It has taken less than an hour to pass this Bill which is one of the most important pieces of legislation, in terms of justice, to be introduced in the House. I thank the Minister for her espousal of this cause and I thank her officials who seem to have covered all aspects of the questions which arise. It is amazing that a nine section Bill is required for such a seemingly simple matter.
As I will not be marking the Minister quite as directly in future as I have heretofore—
I am very relieved to hear that.
—although that does not mean I will be going away, I thank her and her Ministers of State for the many robust debates we have had. In particular, I thank Minister of State, Deputy Tom Kitt, who guided the Copyright and Related Rights Bill through 11 committee meetings and a ten hour Report Stage debate. I suspect my Leader decided not to make any changes until that legislation was passed, lest anyone new had to take over that brief. I also thank the departmental officials for co-operating with me in that portfolio. I was grateful for their constant assistance and availability to me when I had any queries.
I commend the work carried out by the Minister and her officials on this humane piece of legislation.
I thank the Minister, her staff and others, particularly John Slevin, for their work on this Bill and I look forward to the same dedication being shown in distributing the proceeds under the Bill. This is a good day for the House.
