Vol. 523 No. 4
13 Mr. Allen asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation the number of requests received to participate in the tender to design, build, finance, operate and maintain an aquatic and leisure centre adjacent to the proposed national stadium at Abbotstown, Dublin 15; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19493/00]
14 Mr. Allen asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation the selection process by which a company (details supplied) was appointed to lead the executive services team advising the Government on the Campus and Stadium Ireland project; if the position was advertised or a competition held; the remuneration attached to the appointment; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19746/00]
19 Ms McManus asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation the proposed date of the commencement of construction of Campus and Stadium Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21122/00]
23 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation the number of copies of the feasibility study for "A Stadium for the New Century" which have been distributed; the nature of any subsequent comment received in response; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [20322/00]
33 Mr. Higgins (Dublin West) asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation if he will report on the current status of plans for the proposed national sports stadium at Abbotstown, County Dublin; and if he will report also on the Government's contacts with interested parties in the Fingal County Council area in this regard. [20405/00]
37 Mr. Broughan asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation the latest projected cost of Campus and Stadium Ireland, including the cost of the aquatic centre and the cost of relocating public servants currently working on the site; when construction is expected to commence; when construction is expected to be completed; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21106/00]
44 Mr. Bell asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation if the further feasibility study on Campus and Stadium Ireland which a company (details supplied) had been asked to undertake has yet been completed; the plans he has to publish this study; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21108/00]
219 Dr. Upton asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation if he will give a detailed breakdown of the costs of Stadium Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21850/00]
231 Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation the current position in relation to the building of a national stadium; if it is envisaged that support services will be available in such facilities; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21381/00]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 13, 14, 19, 23, 33, 37, 44, 219 and 231 together.
As there are three oral questions to answer, the time allowed is not more than 18 minutes.
The feasibility study, A Stadium for the New Century, was prepared by a consortium led by PricewaterhouseCoopers and 60 copies of the report were submitted to the stadium steering committee which was established by the Government to oversee the preparation of the feasibility study.
Following acceptance of the study by the Government it was subsequently laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas and made available on the website of the Department of the Taoiseach. It was also made available to interested parties and persons who requested it.
Shortly before the launch of the study the Taoiseach, the Minister for Finance and I briefed the major national governing bodies of sport including the Community Games on its contents and they were unanimous in their welcome of it. Since its publication there has been a broad positive public response to the study and I am confident that public support will continue to grow as the various elements of the project become a reality. Earlier this year the Government appointed a development company, Campus and Stadium Ireland Development Limited, which would have responsibility for taking the Sports Campus Ireland project through the design and construction stages.
Campus and Stadium Ireland Development Limited, CSID, estimates that the cost of the development of the total campus and stadium project to be in the region of £550 million, to be funded from a combination of private sector and public sector moneys. This covers the cost of an 80,000 seat stadium, where the cost remains at £281 million, as outlined in the feasibility study, including a private contribution of £50 million; a series of general sports use facilities, including an aquatic and leisure centre, an indoor arena, multipurpose indoor and outdoor training halls and pitches, a sports science-sports medicine centre, headquarters for sports organisations including the Community Games and a visitor information centre; some specific use facilities for individual sports to be decided on the advice of the Irish Sports Council; the cost of the infrastructure on the Abbotstown site and the operating costs of CSID.
CSID estimates that of the total cost of £550 million, the return related and fully funded private sector elements are in the region of £150 million, taking account of the £50 million private sector donation. The remaining public sector cost is estimated to be in the region of £350 million. The cost of relocation of relocating public servants currently working at Abbotstown, is a matter for the Minister for Finance.
CSID has already put in place an executive services management team, based in offices at Blanchardstown near the Abbotstown site, to take the project forward. Appointed on the basis of a publicly advertised competition, this team will provide a full range of executive, property, financial, marketing, planning, environmental and communications services to the company. It is headed by Magahy & Co. Ltd. and comprises PricewaterhouseCoopers, Wilson Hartnell Public Relations, McHugh Consultants, Thorbourn Colquhoun, Seamus Monaghan & Partners and Mr. Ronnie Delany. The team will work with the Office of Public Works, who will provide the project management function for the infrastructure of Sports Campus Ireland. The cost of the executive services team has been capped at 1.8% of the development cost.
CSID intends to undertake the development of the sports facilities on a design, build, finance, operate and maintain basis. This will, in effect, involve a series of public-private partnerships with financial contributions from the private sector based on the returns they estimate for the facilities. CSID will also seek proposals for fully private sector funded facilities on the Abbotstown site and intends to work closely with local community organisations and take on board community projects in developing the site. I have had no contacts personally with parties in the Fingal County Council area regarding developments at the Abbotstown site.
The Government has approved proceeding with the development of an aquatic and leisure centre at the Sports Campus Ireland site. The awarding authority for the competition to design, build, finance, operate and maintain the aquatic and leisure centre is Campus and Stadium Ireland Development Limited and information about the number of requests to participate is a day-to-day administrative matter for the company. However, following the publicly advertised competition and after an initial assessment by CSID and the Office of Public Works, five consortia from Ireland and abroad were invited to make outline bids by 9 October. It is intended that the heads of agreement will have been reached with a developer for the aquatic and leisure centre by the end of this year and that construction work on the aquatic and leisure centre is expected to commence in mid-2001 and must be completed by end 2002 to enable the Special Olympics to be held there in summer 2003. CSID will, between now and the end of the year, put the other facilities for Sports Campus Ireland out to tender, using the same procedures as for the aquatic and leisure centre.
The feasibility study A Stadium for the New Century provides a five year timescale for the completion of the stadium. CSID has recently published advertisements outlining the terms of a competition to develop an architectural and environmental framework plan for the entire site, which comprises 500 acres. The winning framework plan will suggest a logical and coherent approach to accommodating Sports Campus Ireland, a major parkland amenity to serve the community and general public, a major science and educational project and complementary commercial and leisure projects with respect to the built and natural heritage that exists at Abbotstown. As soon as the results of the architectural and environmental framework plan competition are available – which is expected by year end – a more precise timescale for the development can be established.
In addition to the feasibility study A Stadium for the New Century, prepared by PricewaterhouseCoopers, I understand that Campus and Stadium Ireland Development Limited has commissioned a number of other smaller studies for an aquatic and leisure centre, Arena Ireland, a sports science and medical centre, multi-purpose halls and outdoor pitches and a tennis centre. CSID will use these different studies as inputs to the competitive tenders to the design, build, finance, operate and maintain process and in those circumstances it would not be appropriate to publish these studies.
Does the Minister agree that the £550 million figure quoted – it has gone from £280 million to £550 million – as a cost, does not include the relocation of veterinary research laboratories and the Marine Institute at a cost of £90 million, as set out in a reply to a previous parliamentary question, the development of road infrastructure and rail and bus services and cost escalation? Will the Minister confirm that our national stadium does not contain an athletics track? Will he let us know if the VAT element of the project is included in the £550 million? What does he estimate the cost escalation will be over the four year period?
The answer to the first part of the Deputy's question is "yes". The answer to the second part is that the infrastructure in the area, as has already been pointed out, has been the subject of a significant amount of funding in the national development plan which will be to the benefit of the communities in that area.
The stadium does not include an athletics track because, as the Deputy is aware, we are continuing the development of Morton Stadium. I recently grant aided to the tune of £4.8 million a new indoor facility at that venue. Even in Stadium Australia in Sydney they are about to dig up the athletics track because there is no further need for it because athletics as a spectator sport would not need an 80,000 seat stadium. They are taking up their track there.
There are two points about the VAT issue. Public private partnerships will be involved in all aspects of the stadium. Every section of the stadium will go to a public private partnership. Therefore, the private sector will certainly be taking over a certain section of the VAT area. I also inform the Deputy, because this arose before, that this specific issue is a matter of ongoing discussion—
The Minister does not know.
—between the Revenue Commissioners and CSID. It is not that we do not know.
The Minister should conclude.
The matter is to be decided between Revenue and CSID.
Before I call Deputy O'Shea, I remind Deputies and the Minister that there is a maximum of one minute for supplementary questions and the same for the Minister's reply, other than the Minister's initial reply. In this instance he had up to six minutes because more than three oral questions were taken together.
Does the Minister not agree that standing over the figure of £281 million for the stadium at this point is not the approach which should be taken when the Minister's feasibility study showed that, of the 15 stadia examined, the average cost overrun was £73.4 million? Does the Minister have a ballpark figure in the context of infrastructural works, such as the railway connection and terminal and roads servicing the site? Has any plan been drawn up to deal with traffic coming to the site similar to the plans the FAI has formulated for Eircom Park? Some 80,000 people converging on one site is a huge number. The FAI anticipated this and has plans for dealing with it. Are we proceeding with a stadium project where no detailed environmental impact assessment has been carried out to support it?
No. Every matter concerning the environmental issues and problems which arise when one tries to bring 80,000 people to and from a specific venue will be worked out with the stadium development committee. We are spending £40 million in the national development plan and a large amount of that has been earmarked for that specific area of north Dublin.
I sometimes cannot understand the two points of the argument. If we were to invest £1 billion in sport, it would not of necessity be enough. We are not talking about that amount of money but it would be 1% of the funding available under the national development plan.
Into one project.
I hear arguments made on both sides of the House and in the media that we are not investing enough money in sporting infrastructure and I then hear people argue, and Deputies are doing so today, that we are investing too much money in it.
That is not true.
The Minister's minute is up.
We are saying the Minister is mis-spending.
I argue that we have the potential, manpower and brains as they did in other places where they built stadia, such as Paris, Cardiff, Wembley, Scotland and Australia.
We have Croke Park and we will have Eircom Park.
The Minister's minute is exhausted.
We have the expertise to provide a stadium while taking on board the problems which have already been encountered by other stadia.
I call Deputy O'Shea.
We can benefit from the expertise gained from the stadia which have already been built.
The Minister's argument is not really relevant because the basic point about resources allocated to sport is the cost effectiveness and what they do to promote sport.
Hear, hear.
Can the Minister say what sporting events which could come to this country in the next ten years would need a stadium of 80,000 seats? The GAA has Croke Park and the FAI will have Eircom Park, which will have 45,000 seats. It sees that as adequate for its needs. From where will these huge crowds suddenly come? Is this not just a white elephant, something the Taoiseach dreamt up and with which the Minister is landed?
Someone else dreamt it up.
I remind the Deputy that, at the beginning of the century, the same was said of a certain member of the GAA when he asked and encouraged the organisation to buy a certain property which was becoming available at Jones' Road. The organisation turned down that specific property and the individual bought it and kept it in his private possession for the GAA. That was the way they turned it at the beginning of the century.
We do not need anecdotes. The Minister should answer the question.
Furthermore, at the beginning of the century—
We are in a new century now.
—the Irish Times carried four lines regarding the All-Ireland football final.
The Minister should answer the question.
If sport continues to progress at its current rapid rate throughout the world, we cannot possibly understand or estimate the type of events which will come to this country.
Such as?
Unless the infrastructure is in place, one can expect nothing.
Such as?
We have the 2005 Ryder Cup, which is the major event in the world that year—
That will not be played in the national stadium. That will be on a golf course.
Your minute is concluded, Minister.
—simply because we have the infrastructure to do it.
The Minister has no answer.
Unless one has the infrastructure, one can gain nothing. I am surprised at the Deputy questioning this matter—
Will the Minister and Deputies adhere to Standing Orders?
—when we should have support for developing sport.
On the issue of public private partnerships and the role of tax benefits which will be given to the private sector to take a stake in this, obviously that will be a tax liability in years to come. The Minister said it was between CSID and the Revenue Commissioners to agree on VAT. That would not be the case because, under law, it is not something about which there can be arbitration. It should be relatively simple to work out if there will be a VAT reclaim on the development and whether it is VAT inclusive or exclusive. The Minister spoke of giving the consultants 1.8% in fees. What stages of payment are involved? This involves fees of £15 million. Are there any guarantees or is it a no foal no fee situation? Has a contract been signed with the consultants for the fees?
The agreement has been made with the consultants, which I have mentioned, that it will be no more than 1.8%. Those are the agreed terms with the consultants. Regarding VAT, in circumstances such as these the Revenue Commissioners are in consultation with CSID on the issue of VAT. I have tried to find the information for Deputies on this specific matter because it was raised on the previous occasion and I only relate the information I have received. In a public private partnership the private sector would be liable for a certain amount of the VAT, as is usually the case. An encouraging part of the process is that when we invited tenders for the construction of the aquatic and leisure centre, there was no lack of private sector companies interested in getting a piece of the action because they saw the future potential of sport. Each of the sections to which I already referred – the medical and scientific areas, the parkland area, etc. – will be located on the 500 acre site.
The Minister's minute has concluded.
A plan has already been drawn for this site, a competition has been held and each of those who entered offered suggestions on how best to lay out the 500 acre site in question.
Will the Minister allow Deputy Broughan to ask a question?
With regard to that issue, the private sector will have a certain amount of—
Minister, please.
I welcome the Minister's remarks about Morton Stadium. However, is there not an element of hypocrisy about the welcome development of Morton Stadium which is situated within hundreds of metres of Dublin Airport and the development at Eircom Park which is much further away from Baldonnel?
Sustainability is the key element of any major commercial project. Is the Minister aware whether they may be a professional sports franchise for the main stadium at Abbotstown? I note the involvement of Mr. J. P. McManus who is associated with other sports projects in this project.
Will the Minister place in the Dáil Library the records relating to the competition which was held and the advertisements in respect of the Campus Ireland project? Will he also inform the House with regard to the elements of the project which will be subject to the cap of 1.8% of the development cost? I am concerned that if the overall cost of the project runs to £1 billion the amount due to the consultants alone will be £20 million, or the amount needed to construct ten swimming pools.
With regard to the latter point, I will obtain a breakdown for Deputy Allen in respect of the cap of 1.8% and the contract that has been signed with the consultants.
I agree with Deputy Broughan's observations regarding sustainability but part of my argument is that we cannot know what will happen to sport during the next 20 to 25 years. Unless we have the proper infrastructure in place, we will not be able to attract major global sporting events.
To which events is the Minister referring?
I see no reason this country should not host a European cup final. However, we will never be able to do so until we have a stadium with a minimum capacity of 64,000.
The Minister's time has concluded.
We would like to have a franchise or a tenant in the stadium because that would ensure its sustainability. I have already outlined the reasons I wish to see the FAI becoming involved in that because the Irish soccer team will probably attract large crowds in the future, particularly in view of how its World Cup campaign is proceeding. There are other major attractions which, at present, we have no—
The Minister's time is exhausted and I wish to move to question No. 15 before Question Time concludes.
The Minister did not indicate whether he would place in the Dáil Library the records and advertisements to which I referred.
Deputy Allen should resume his seat.
