Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 24 Oct 2000

Vol. 524 No. 5

Priority Questions. - Air Accident Investigations.

Michael Finucane

Question:

102 Mr. Finucane asked the Minister for Defence the reason the 24-hour service went ahead on 1 July 1999 at Waterford airport when proper safety procedures were not in place; his views on whether all proper safety procedures were in place following 12 meetings between March 1998 and mid-1999; the safety procedures he is putting in place following the tragic loss of four Air Corps personnel before a resumption of the 24-hour search and rescue service at the airport; and if his attention has been drawn to the fact that serious reservations had been expressed as far back as 1991 as to the shortcomings of the Dauphin for search and rescue missions on the Atlantic coastline. [23217/00]

Jack Wall

Question:

103 Mr. Wall asked the Minister for Defence the steps taken or planned to implement the recommendations of the report of the air accident investigations unit into the crash of an Air Corps helicopter in Tramore, County Waterford, in July 1999; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23220/00]

Minister for Defence (Mr. M. Smith):

I welcome Deputy Finucane as Fine Gael spokes person on Defence. I hope I will be able to respond positively to the Deputy's questions for a long time to come.

Mr. Flanagan:

The Minister may be on this side of the House for the next round of defence questions.

Mr. M. Smith:

I propose to take Questions Nos. 102 and 103 together.

As I previously stated in the House, the recent publication of the final report by the air accident investigations unit of the Department of Public Enterprise into the accident in Tramore, County Waterford, on 2 July 1999, in which four members of the Air Corps – captain David O'Flaherty, captain Michael Baker, sergeant Paddy Mooney and corporal Niall Byrne – were tragically killed, evoked many sad memories for the families of the victims, the Defence Forces and the public in general. Once again, I pay a most sincere tribute to those brave men who gave their lives in the service of others.

The report is a very comprehensive and detailed document and I welcome its publication. The purpose of the investigation was to determine the circumstances and cause, or causes, of the accident to prevent future such accidents. It was not the purpose of the accident investigation nor the investigation report to apportion blame or liability. I urge Deputy Finucane to study the report in its entirety. The report outlines the extensive preparations which were undertaken by all concerned to provide the 24-hour search and rescue service at Waterford airport.

With regard to the suitability of the Dauphin helicopter for search and rescue missions, all helicopters operate within certain ranges. The Dauphin is a multi-engined, all-weather, light load carrying helicopter, equipped with auto hover and with a declared maximum operating range of 150 nautical miles by day at a speed of 135 knots and 70 nautical miles by night at a speed of 135 knots. These are the ranges and, by extension, the limitations within which the aircraft must operate. While the report refers to the shortcomings of the Dauphin as a search and rescue platform in the north-western theatre, as expressed to the investigation by past and present search and rescue practitioners, no case in relation to any such shortcomings was made to my Department. The report recommends that the general officer commanding the Air Corps should review the matter.

All the safety recommendations set out in the report which call for action by the Department and the Defence Forces are being considered as a matter of priority with a view to their immediate implementation. A number of recommendations which call for action by the Department of the Marine and Natural Resources are being closely examined in that Department. A safety recommendation in relation to potential hazards to rescuers associated with sites of serious aircraft accidents is a matter for a number of Departments and agencies.

I have put in place arrangements to monitor progress in regard to the implementation of the recommendations. In this regard, an initial meeting of a working group was held in the Department of Defence on 5 October 2000 involving representatives from my Department, including the Defence Forces, and the Department of the Marine and Natural Resources. This group will meet on a regular basis to ensure the speedy implementation of the safety recommendations set out in the report. Progress reports from the various bodies involved will be presented and reviewed, following which composite progress reports will be presented to me at regular intervals.

Action has begun to implement the recommendation that the Department of Defence should commission, on behalf of the Air Corps, an independent air operations safety audit by an agency with a proven track record of expertise in military aviation. In this regard, my Department has asked the Department of Public Enterprise for advice regarding the sourcing of appropriate expertise to carry out the recommended air operations safety audit. I have directed that this audit be carried out at the earliest time possible. All support necessary will be provided by my Department and the Defence Forces to the chosen agency to carry out its work. In addition, as recommended in the report, an Air Corps air safety office is being established with immediate effect and an air safety officer has been appointed by the general officer commanding the Air Corps.

Mr. Finucane:

At the time of the tragedy the Minister was out of the country. I have read the report not once but three times. I regret that the first words of the Minister, on behalf of the Departments of Defence and of the Marine and Natural Resources, should have been an apology to the families of those four people who tragically lost their lives.

On the day of the launch of the 24 hour service, his colleague, the then Minister for the Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Woods, described it as a world class service – that was reported in a newspaper.

An Ceann Comhairle:

The Deputy should ask a question.

Mr. Finucane:

Why, on the first day of the 24 hour operation at Waterford Airport on 1 July 1999, did Air Corps personnel go to that airport for the first time? It was the first time a technician, who was a member of that group, was at that airport and when he arrived, he was asked to take control of the manning of the air traffic control tower because over 12 meetings over a year the Department of Defence could not get its act together regarding putting the safety infrastructure in place. It is a shocking commentary on both the Department of Defence and Department of the Marine and Natural Resources.

On 1 July 1999, the one thing they did get right is—

An Ceann Comhairle:

The Deputy should confine himself to questions. It is Question Time.

Mr. Finucane:

I have asked questions.

An Ceann Comhairle:

The Deputy cannot make a statement.

Mr. Finucane:

I saw the latitude you gave earlier. This is a very important subject—

An Ceann Comhairle:

Yes, but unfortunately—

Mr. Finucane:

—and the Minister should apologise to the people involved. This tragedy should not have happened. They should not have been placed in that situation and the Minister should ask serious questions within the Departments of Defence and of the Marine and Natural Resources.

I wish I could read him a letter from the fiancé of one of the people involved. One of the points she makes is that when the air traffic support arrived on the day of the accident—

An Ceann Comhairle:

I must remind the Deputy that it is Question Time.

Mr. Finucane:

—it was the first time there. Can the Minister account for it? What investigation is he conducting within the two relevant Departments to establish who allowed people to lose their lives unnecessarily in a tragedy which should not have happened?

The report which I have read three times is a shocking commentary on the Departments of Defence and of the Marine and Natural Resources. The Minister should apologise to the people affected.

Mr. M. Smith:

I reject that intemperate outburst which seeks, without any evidence to back it up, to place the blame either on me or on officials in the Department of Defence. As the public knows, the Air Corps and these brave men and their colleagues in the search and rescue service have saved hundreds of lives in the most adverse conditions, placing their own lives many times at risk and sometimes where the public—

Mr. Finucane:

We do not need a history lesson.

An Ceann Comhairle:

Please allow the Minister to speak. The Deputy should be orderly now.

Mr. Finucane:

You cut me short.

Mr. M. Smith:

They work—

Mr. Finucane:

You allow the Minister to lecture me. I am well aware of what the Air Corps has done in the past. I do not like—

An Ceann Comhairle:

I would remind the Deputy that this is Question Time. The Deputy is entitled to ask questions; the Minister is entitled to make a statement in reply to those questions.

Mr. Finucane:

He can make a statement and I cannot?

An Ceann Comhairle:

Yes.

Mr. Finucane:

Why can I not make a statement?

An Ceann Comhairle:

No, not at Question Time. These are the Standing Orders, Deputy. The Chair must—

Mr. Finucane:

This is a very important subject and—

An Ceann Comhairle:

As are all subjects coming before the House.

Mr. Finucane:

—questions should have been answered in this House before now, a Cheann Comhairle.

An Ceann Comhairle:

The Deputy is not in order.

Mr. M. Smith:

These dangerous missions—

Mr. Finucane:

The Minister may stop arguing and suit the staff in the Department of Defence.

Mr. M. Smith:

—are undertaken—

Mr. Finucane:

He has taken his eye off the ball.

An Ceann Comhairle:

The Deputy should allow the Minister speak.

Mr. M. Smith:

These dangerous missions are undertaken many times at the outer reaches of men's ability and the ability of their aircraft. In this instance it resulted in the tragic loss of these four men. It is very important to keep a perspective on what happened regarding the period in the run-up to that tragic night. To suggest there was not the preparatory work of the most painstaking kind undertaken by the Air Corps and officials in the Department of Defence is to deny a fact which Deputy Finucane knows.

Mr. Finucane:

I am afraid the Minister has not read the report.

Mr. M. Smith:

Would he let me—

Mr. Finucane:

Can I read from this—

An Ceann Comhairle:

The Deputy is using up the time. There is a time limit. Could I bring in Deputy Wall?

Mr. Finucane:

I do not need a lecture from the Minister.

An Ceann Comhairle:

Order, please. Deputy Finucane is using up—

Mr. M. Smith:

Bully-boy tactics will not work.

Mr. Finucane:

It is not bully-boy tactics. I do not need to take lessons from the Minister.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle:

Deputy Finucane, order.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle:

The Deputy is totally out of order.

Mr. Finucane:

I am entitled to read the report. The Minister will see that it is a reflection on the Department of Defence.

An Ceann Comhairle:

Order.

Mr. Finucane:

These people were sent down into that environment and he—

An Ceann Comhairle:

Order. I want to bring in Deputy Wall.

Mr. M. Smith:

I will not let anybody in this House cast a reflection on these men.

Mr. Finucane:

There is nobody casting a reflection on these men.

Mr. M. Smith:

That is what the Deputy is doing.

Mr. Finucane:

How dare the Minister say that? I tried to defend these people and to criticise the Minister because he is the person who is sending these people into an unsafe environment. That allegation is embodied in that report and the Minister knows it.

An Ceann Comhairle:

The Deputy must resume his seat.

Mr. Finucane:

How dare the Minister say something like that? The cheek of him. He is not dealing with a fool.

An Ceann Comhairle:

Deputy Finucane, please resume your seat.

Mr. Finucane:

I will not allow this man to lecture me—

An Ceann Comhairle:

There are other ways of dealing with it.

Mr. Finucane:

He knows well what is in that report and he should apologise to the families of the Air Corps pilots.

An Ceann Comhairle:

Deputy Finucane will resume his seat. I want to let Deputy Wall ask a supplementary question and then the Minister may reply. The time for this question is almost up.

Mr. Wall:

Why was there was no air traffic controller on duty on the night in question? If all the plans supposedly put in place by the Air Corps, the Department of the Defence, the Department of the Marine and Natural Resources and Waterford Airport were in place and the work was done, on the night why was the primary basic need for the safety of these heroic men not in place, the air traffic controller?

Mr. Finucane:

Hear, hear.

Mr. Wall:

If the Minister can answer that, he will alleviate many of the worries and concerns of the families of the people concerned? If we get that answer now, we will know and be able to relate to those who wrote to us, the basic cause of this accident. Why was there no air traffic controller on duty on that night?

Mr. M. Smith:

I am just as saddened as Deputy Wall by that tragic event and the report states that it would have been much more satisfactory if the person in the airport's traffic control tower was more highly qualified. The airport manager was there and there was a technician, and the report specifically states that. However, it is important to note that it is always the captain, the pilots and the people in the aircraft who make the judgment call on the night. It is not me, regardless of what Deputy Finucane tries to do, who decides either the day or—

Mr. Finucane:

It is his Department.

Mr. M. Smith:

—or my Department. We do not decide when an operation will take place.

Mr. Finucane:

They should not have been sent down there in the first place and the Minister knows that.

Mr. M. Smith:

It is a matter entirely for the judgment—

Mr. Finucane:

It was generated at the whims of the Minister and the Minister for the Marine and Natural Resources. It was contrary to good judgment on 1 July 1999 that—

An Ceann Comhairle:

Order.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle:

The Deputy should allow Deputy Wall to ask his question.

Mr. Wall:

In fairness, this is the most important question. There are families who are waiting for the replies we hope to get here this evening.

Mr. McCormack:

We are not getting them.

Mr. Wall:

In fairness, a Cheann Comhairle, give us that much latitude to try and get this thing sorted out once and for all. What the Minister is saying is that the facilities were not available on the particular night. Now the onus of responsibility is being shifted to the captain of this flight and the three officers with him. This situation evolved because the Minister's Department decided to put this helicopter into that area. Therefore, the responsibility to ensure the back-up services which are needed to run this service are in place lies totally with the Minister's Department. One cannot get away from that, irrespective of what the Minister says, that is, that the captain in charge is responsible for safety on the particular day.

Mr. M. Smith:

I accept that completely. As the Deputy knows, the earlier decision was to put that service into operation some months sooner. It was because there was not agreement on meeting the type of conditions which the Air Corps would require to establish this service that it was deferred. It was only when the airport manager wrote to our Department indicating that all these conditions had been put in place and when the Air Corps, having examined that, was satisfied with the conditions and informed the marine emergency services, that the service could proceed on 1 July.

This was not a decision for my Department or a particular Minister, it was a decision for the technical experts who manage and run this emergency service on behalf of the people. It was not my decision. I do not have the technical capacity or responsibility to do that. I respect the decisions that are taken by the experts. The airport manager's letter—

An Ceann Comhairle:

We must proceed to the next question.

Mr. M. Smith:

—of confirmation, the response from the Air Corps and its decision to proceed—

An Ceann Comhairle:

We must proceed to Question No. 104.