Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 15 Feb 2001

Vol. 530 No. 5

Ceisteanna–Questions. Priority Questions. - BSE Scheme.

Alan M. Dukes

Question:

1 Mr. Dukes asked the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Rural Development if he has any proposals to modify the compensation provisions for culled cows in the context of the BSE eradication programme in order to encourage the disposal of four to eight year old cows; if he will provide compensation adequate to encourage the culling of high-yield dairy cows; if he will structure the scheme in order to discourage the fattening of dry cows; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4093/01]

Minister for Agriculture, Food and Rural Development (Mr. Walsh)

I assume the Deputy is referring to the purchase for destruction scheme. This scheme was introduced by the European Union as a market management measure in order to remove surplus beef from the market arising from the decline in beef consumption in the Union and the closure of many third country markets because of BSE. In general, cattle over 30 months of age that have not been tested for BSE, may be offered by producers for purchase and destruction under this scheme.

I am aware that there have been suggestions in relation to a targeted cull of cows. The feasibility of such a proposal is under active examination but there are limiting factors, not least the difficulty in building an adequate epidemiological profile because of the low levels of BSE. In this regard it should be noted that cows slaughtered under the scheme account for 31% of the total.

We have a comprehensive range of measures in place to control and eradicate BSE, including compulsory notification of the disease, the depopulation of herd mates, birth cohorts and progeny of the infected animal, a ban on the use of meat and bonemeal for farmed animals and the removal and destruction of specified risk materials from ruminant animals.

This regime has been independently verified by a number of independent bodies, including the Food and Veterinary Office of the European Commission, and found to be operating effectively. The conclusions of the EU Commission's geographical risk assessment of member states and third countries last year was that the system operating in Ireland has been "optimally stable", since 1 January 1998. The Deputy will also be aware that these measures have been supplemented by a programme of targeted active surveillance for BSE among fallen and casualty animals, and that all cattle over 30 months of age entering the food chain are now being tested routinely for BSE.

I am satisfied this range of measures is proving effective, and that it provides a sound basis for consumer confidence in beef, and for the protection of public health.

Mr. Dukes

Does the Minister agree that it now seems the only source of clinical infection of BSE is to be found in older animals, principally cows? Does he agree that the only transmission vector found so far is the ingestion by other bovines of infected meat and bonemeal and that the most likely place in which any continuing source of infection will be found is among older cows between the ages of four and eight years? If he agrees that is so, does he further agree that the most rapid route towards eliminating BSE is the elimination of the animals in this category and, therefore, we need a targeted cull of cows? Will he outline the considerations he believes are relevant in deciding on a targeted cull? We know he is considering this. His Department officials said as much to the Oireachtas committee yesterday. It was a very useful discussion for which the Members of the committee were grateful. Will he outline the other considerations regarding a targeted cull that seem to be causing a problem so that we all know what exactly we are facing in this area?

Mr. Walsh

I agree with the Deputy's analysis of the problem. That is the best scientific advice that we have been getting to date. A targeted cull would accelerate the decline in the number of clinical cases of BSE. The matters that are being actively looked at by the Department at present are that there are more than two million cows and about one million of them were born prior to 1997. Last year, the last one for which we have figures, some 100 positive cases occurred in animals in that category. What we must do is look for 100 cases in approximately one million cattle. That presents its own difficulties but the Department is working with John Griffin of UCD on the epidemiology routine analysis which he has done. We are looking at it on a geographical basis. Places such as Cavan-Monaghan would appear, on the face of it, to have a higher incidence. There is also the suggestion that feed mills in particular geographical regions should be looked at. They are the measures being examined.

I stated publicly when the destruct scheme was being introduced that there would be difficulty with the logistics of it and that after a few weeks we would see if it could be targeted more specifically. That is being done at present. I emphasise that it has no public health merit. All the public health measures are in place but it would accelerate the decline in clinical cases of BSE.

An Ceann Comhairle

These questions are subject to six minutes. A brief supplementary, please.

Mr. Dukes

This is a problem which, if we deal with it correctly, can be dealt with in six minutes. If not, it will be with us for years. It is important. Does the Minister agree that as long as those animals where clinical infection is likely to be found are kept out of the human food supply we will have done all we can to prevent the repercussions of this disease spreading to humans? Does he agree that the policy of herd depopulation and the elimination of birth cohorts where cases are found limits the possibility of collateral infection? That being the case, and as all these animals are kept out of the food supply, if we target the only known source of clinical infection we will be able to say we have done the maximum possible to keep this disease out of the human food chain. Does he agree – and this is important – that if we have a targeted cull among animals that are most likely to have clinical infection we will have achieved two results – we will take out animals that could possibly pass the infection to others and if all the other animals in that category are kept out of the human food supply we will have sealed it off against the possibility of infection? Does he agree that is a compelling argument for a targeted cull?

Mr. Walsh

Animals entering the food chain are either under 30 months or are tested before they go into it.

Mr. Dukes

I know, but we must ensure they are kept out of the food chain.

An Ceann Comhairle

We are over time on this question and must move on.

Mr. Walsh

The best scientific advice available to me is that there would not be a public health advantage from the cull but there would be an advantage in taking out clinical cases at an earlier date. All the public health measures, for example, compulsory notification of the disease, depopulation of the herds, the ban on meat and bonemeal and particularly the elimination of specified risk material, because wherever BSE is harboured that tissue is taken out of the system, are in place and beef in Ireland was not ever as safe to eat as it is now.

An Ceann Comhairle

We must proceed to the next question.

Willie Penrose

Question:

2 Mr. Penrose asked the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Rural Development the steps being taken at his Department to offer advice and support to farmers and their families in the event of their herds being identified with a BSE reactor; the efforts being taken to speed up the depopulation of such herds; if he has any plans to compensate farmers for losses incurred while maintaining cattle during the period leading up to depopulation; if he has any further plans to restructure the valuation process for farms earmarked for depopulation; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4260/01]

Mr. Walsh

I have every sympathy for herd owners who experience a case of BSE in their herds and I assure the Deputy that such cases are treated with great sensitivity and discretion. Officers from my Department, particularly from the local district veterinary offices, are in regular touch with the herdowner during the time from confirmation of the disease to final clearance of the farm. At time of positive confirmation of the disease, an information note issues to the herdowner setting out the entire process and the various options available with regard to valuation.

A Department valuer normally makes contact with the herd-owner shortly after positive confirmation of BSE with a view to valuation of the herd being carried out within two weeks of the date of confirmation. There is no fixed time frame laid down in legislation for the valuation to be agreed. The herd-owner may need time to consider the initial valuation, or alternatively may wish to avail of the appeals procedure laid down in the Diseases of Animals (Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy) (Amendment)(No 2) Order, 1990. The latter provides for recourse to independent valuation, and ultimately to an arbitrator, should the herd-owner wish to pursue this course of action. The herd will be slaughtered normally within one week of the conclusion of the valuation process although this can vary having regard to the size of the herd and the capacity in the sole approved slaughtering plant.

For a variety of reasons, a backlog of herds awaiting valuations had arisen but I am pleased that these have now been dealt with fully. In recognition of the difficulties created for the herd owners involved by the delays in commencing valuations, my Department has arranged for interim payments of compensation and in addition is finalising arrangements for the granting of ex-gratia payments to the herd owners involved. The current valuation arrangements have a statutory basis. My Department is considering how the process might be further streamlined.

Mr. Penrose

Will the Minister agree that it is traumatic for farmers and their families when an animal with BSE is identified in their herd? Will he agree that a dedicated unit should be established in the Department to advise farmers in preparing for depopulation and to assist in the building up of the herd afterwards? Will he agree that the Department should provide a counselling and therapy service for farmers who have suffered such a trauma, as happened to farmers in my county in mid-December? Will he also agree that the compensation mechanism established under Statutory Instrument 195 of 1990 is 11 years out of date and fails to take account of the ancillary costs involved for farmers? Will he agree that farmers who must get rid of milk and feed fodder to animals that will be taken away should be compensated? Is it not time the regulation was updated and brought into the new century, because it fails to take account of the ancillary costs to farmers who have had this major upset in their lives and whose ability to earn a farm income has been diminished? Will he ensure that the depopulation process in speeded up from the date of identification to taking the animals off the farm? To cut down on the ancillary costs involved, will he try to speed up the process, provide a counselling service for farmers and ensure that Statutory Instrument 195 of 1990 is updated to take account of the major losses incurred by farmers?

Mr. Walsh

Having a BSE breakdown or a BSE positive animal found in a herd is about the most traumatic thing that can happen to any herd owner. In many cases, two generations of a family have built up a herd and it is extremely traumatic to see it depopulated or destroyed. I have sought to implement a scheme which is sensitive and takes into account these human factors in a speedy manner. I regret the delay which took place just before Christmas and recently but, thankfully, that backlog has now been dealt with. Under normal circumstances, from the date of detection to the date of payment is usually quite short and 30 days are allowed for cleansing, sterilisation and repopulating. I will seek to ensure that the whole process is speeded up as much as possible. In the meantime, market value is paid and if a herd owner is not satisfied, he or she can use the appeals system and the case can go to final arbitration. We are in continuous dialogue with the social partners on all these matters in relation to valuation and so on.

Mr. Penrose

Will the Minister meet members of the group set up to represent farmers who have had animals identified with BSE and who have a number of proposals to put to him?

Mr. Walsh

I met informally some members of the group and I arranged for the group to meet formally with the relevant section of the Department. A very useful meeting took place and the dialogue will continue so that the trauma in relation to this disease is reduced and, where possible, removed.