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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 7 Mar 2001

Vol. 532 No. 2

Priority Questions. - Career Guidance and Counselling Services.

Róisín Shortall

Question:

19 Ms Shortall asked the Minister for Education and Science if, in view of the recent report on the high non-completion rates within the universities and the indications of even higher such rates within the institutes of technology, he will give urgent attention to restoring the 1:250 ratio for career guidance counsellors which obtained in the early 1980s; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [7189/01]

In the current school year the allocation to second level schools in respect of guidance and counselling is of the order of 580 whole-time teacher equivalents. I recently announced that 50 additional posts for guidance and counselling will be allocated to second level schools to develop innovative ways of enhancing guidance for students and to promote links between schools, business, voluntary and State agencies.

In relation to the current availability of guidance services, I have recently received the results of an audit of all second level schools, conducted on behalf of my Department by the National Centre for Guidance in Education. It is clear from the audit that a significant number of schools are not fully utilising the resources currently being made available to them by my Department for guidance and that, in many schools, the service is not adequately targeted at pupils at risk.

In these circumstances, my first priority is to ensure the resources made available to schools for guidance are fully utilised for that purpose. In line with the Government's priority to promote social inclusion, my other priority is to ensure that those young people who are most at risk of dropping out of education early are a major focus of guidance provision in schools. As a result, any future enhancement of provision to individual schools will be conditional on their making a commitment to providing a service to all their pupils which would reflect both Government priorities and their pupils' needs.

An expert group on teacher allocations at second level is currently examining all aspects of the teacher allocation process at second level, including the provision of staffing resources to schools for guidance. The question of increasing the allocation in respect of guidance and counselling will be considered in the light of the recommendations of the group, which are expected in the near future.

The Minister's reply indicating his view of the career guidance service is extraordinary. Does he agree it is somewhat different from what most people have of that service? This has always been regarded as a mainstream service which should be available for all second level pupils given that all second level pupils need career guidance. Is the Minister now targeting this service at at-risk pupils because that seems to be the implication of his reply? I would bring the Minister back to the original question. Clearly, and for a number of reasons, not least the high drop-out rate from third level colleges, there is an inadequacy in the current provision of career guidance within second level schools. Does the Minister accept that? Does he accept that we need to move rapidly back to the position that obtained in the early 1980s when there was one career guidance counsellor to every 250 pupils? The ratio is currently 1:500, a doubling of the ratio. Is the Minister committed to following through on the promise given before the last election in his own party's manifesto to restore that 1:250 ratio? What kind of timescale has he got in mind to do this?

I am sure the Deputy is aware that I recently allocated an additional 50 posts for guidance and counselling. Therefore, in relation to inadequate provision, that is an additional 50 guidance counsellors.

Is it a mainstream service?

As the audit has shown that certain students are not getting the support they should get, it will be done in a more targeted way. That is what we want to do and I am sure it is what the Deputy would want to do.

The Deputy mentioned achieving a ratio of 1:250 pupils. We have allocated an additional 50 posts which will help in that regard. One feature which has been missed in the discussions about the ratio is that when the ratio was 1:250, schools with under 250 pupils received no allocation. That is not the best situation. We are trying to cover small schools at the same time. I know that will make it more difficult to achieve the target, but that is the other element involved.

Does the Minister see access to career guidance as being a mainstream service to which all mainstream students are entitled? Has the pre-election promise the Minister made to restore the 250:1 ratio been forgotten or is it still his intention to reach that target and, if so, what is the timescale involved?

As resources are made available to me I will continue towards the target. While doing so, I will take into consideration what I find on the way. If an independent audit indicates certain needs then I will certainly try to meet them.

When will the Minster meet the target?

As soon as I can.

What about the commitment in the Minister's election manifesto?

I have just appointed 50 extra. Look at the Deputy's party's record. He will not find anyone appointing 50 extra. Ask Deputy Browne who is behind him.

We stand over our record.

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