Michael Noonan
Question:1 Mr. Noonan asked the Taoiseach the role, functions and remit of the communications unit within his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [16349/01]
Ceisteanna–Questions. - Departmental Staff.
Michael Noonan
Question:2 Mr. Noonan asked the Taoiseach the number of staff who are assigned to the communications unit of his Department; the proportion of the staff who are established civil servants; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [16350/01]
Michael Noonan
Question:3 Mr. Noonan asked the Taoiseach the total cost which has accrued in respect of the communications unit within his Department since its establishment; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [16351/01]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 3, inclusive, together.
The communications unit provides a comprehensive information service to Ministers and their Departments on Government policy initiatives and developments and alerts them to any problems which may arise in relation to their implementation. In this way Departments will be able to provide a better service to the public.
The communications unit works an 18 hour day based on a flexible rota of three working shifts. Throughout the day the unit provides Ministers and their Departments with a detailed and comprehensive service ensuring that Departments are kept informed in a fast and efficient manner of any relevant news developments. The unit is staffed by seven established civil servants, six of whom are seconded from other Departments. One member of the team is currently on maternity leave.
The cost of the communications unit to my Department has been £53,211 per year on average since its establishment in 1997. The total cost since its establishment is £266,053. This includes the initial start up costs such as office machinery, telecommunications equipment and furniture. The bulk of the cost is salaries and shift allowances.
The work of the unit ensures that Departments are eliminating the use of external companies and no longer duplicate work such as transcripts and tapes. It is conservatively estimated that in a full year the communications unit would save Departments something in the region of £110,000 to £120,000.
The bulk of the work carried out by the communications unit seems to be monitoring the media. Does the monitoring extend to the speeches and interviews conducted by members of the Opposition parties?
The information unit takes straight from news bulletins and a number of programmes and from newspapers, a factual account of what is said. It just logs factually what comes across and circulates that information. If a programme is relevant to a Department it will log, tape or communicate the exact content. The information as it is broadcast is transferred. Up to a few years ago that information was provided by news services and tape companies. Deputy Noonan will recall that each of those tapes, even back before we started, cost about £30. They just take what is on the airwaves and communicate that.
To make it absolutely clear, is it the case that an interview like the one I did today after the 1 o'clock news would be monitored by the monitoring unit and either the Taoiseach's Department or another Department would be provided with a transcript of that as appropriate?
If it is appropriate.
Arising from that, does the Taoiseach think it is proper that civil servants should be used in what is essentially political work in aiding Ministers to counteract the valid criticisms made by Opposition spokespersons?
I do not see how they are aiding anyone in counteracting criticisms. They are disseminating information, which is in the broad newscasts and available to everybody, and communicating that to Departments and agencies in a swift and efficient way. They do not do anything more than that and it is absolutely proper that such information should be communicated in a cost-efficient way, not in the old costly way in which it was done in the past.
Is the Taoiseach aware that when freedom of information requests were placed by the Sunday Times and by Fine Gael, they were turned down on the grounds that the activity of the communications unit was political rather than administrative, and that this defence by his Department was upheld by those who adjudicate on freedom of information requests? Therefore we have now been told that, by definition, the work carried out by this unit is political, not administrative. I put it to the Taoiseach again that it is entirely inappropriate for civil servants to be retained by the Taoiseach on a cross-departmental basis to help him fight his political battles, this is unprecedented, it has not ever been done before and it is something at which the Comptroller and Auditor General should look if the Taoiseach is not prepared to reverse his decision. This is outrageous. The Taoiseach is using taxpayers' money to fight his political battles.
That is entirely untrue. The Government of which Deputy Noonan was a Minister had these people in every Department and used the outside services to tape and communicate all this information at enormous cost to the taxpayers. The service was used on a day to day basis to produce all of these transcripts. It is now done efficiently in a non-political way, just taking what is the factual information and communicating that.
I can see nothing wrong with that. I do not see it as a great political service but as a good news service. Taking the morning newspapers and providing a gist of the headlines or taking a "Prime Time" programme and providing a gist of the issues involved and communicating that across Departments is only using the information in the public domain and giving it in a cost-effective way. As a result, commercial companies, which clearly have lost a great deal of business they used get in the past, are not involved and it is done by a small group of civil servants.
I put it to the Taoiseach that the fact that, on his direction, the Department has refused to release information about the activities of this unit requested under the Freedom of Information Act proves that this is not normal administrative activity, and that the refusal was on the grounds that the activity was political. If it is all so above board, why not release it under the Freedom of Information Act?
That is what they are doing all day.
They are not doing so. The Taoiseach is doing what he always does, making speeches full of ambiguity and talking out of two sides of his mouth at the same time. I put it to the Taoiseach that this communications unit is also transferring information to the Fianna Fáil press office, there is a total tie-in between the dirty tricks department in the Fianna Fáil press office and this communication unit, and civil servants are being abused in a manner which—
The Deputy should confine himself to questions not accusations. It is Question Time.
I always find your advice helpful, a Cheann Comhairle, and I thank you for it.
That is what the Chair is for.
I agree. I put it to the Taoiseach that this is an unprecedented abuse where civil servants are being used for political activity, that they are lined up with the Fianna Fáil press office and that if he does not do something about it I will refer this to the Comptroller and Auditor General. He is getting away with too much and he will not get away with this one.
As far as I am concerned, Deputy Noonan can refer to it wherever he likes. I do not see anything wrong with this. Departments have, in the past, brought in well paid outsiders in massive numerical strength to communicate information across, within and outside Departments. They used outside companies to obtain films, texts and profiles of all kinds of articles and magazines against the small number of low to middle grade civil servants communicating the daily news without any comment other than that contained on the airwaves and passing it around Departments. That, in my view, is efficient Government. The five or six units involved, rather than costing a great deal of money, result in substantial savings to the taxpayer. I will co-operate with anyone wishing to take a look at how this is done. I think it is an excellent way of doing business.
A brief supplementary from Deputy Noonan.
If everything is above board to the extent that this unit is simply recording and transmitting factual information, why is the Taoiseach refusing to release any account of its activities under the Freedom of Information Act on the grounds that this is political activity and as a consequence is exempted from the provisions of that Act?
There are over 70 people employed across Government Departments in press activities supplemented by the communications unit; PR companies, to the tune of £10 million annually, are also retained across these Departments and on top of that the Taoiseach is using this communications unit to supplement the activities of the Fianna Fáil press office. That is undemocratic, unprecedented, unjust and is a corruption of the system. The Taoiseach should put a stop to it.
In the light of what the Taoiseach said about his having no difficulty in making the operation of this administrative unit open to normal scrutiny and inquiry, can he confirm to the House that a request under the Freedom of Information Act, introduced by the rainbow Government, to inquire into the operations of this administrative unit would be complied with and would not be closed off on the grounds of it being a political unit? Is that what the Taoiseach is now saying? Is he reversing his position?
If the Deputy was involved in the implementation of the Act for which he is claiming credit he would know I have no involvement in its operation. There is an FOI officer in each Department. I make it a practice not to look at questions or replies in that regard. Some people would say if I did I might let half of it out but that is not the way the Act operates. The FOI officer in each Department is a statutory officer. They, under the codes set up across Departments under the Act, deal with the questions raised. I have no involvement in this area. Perhaps people thought, when the Act was being drafted, that it would be a good trick to manipulate it in this way. That is not being done by this Government.
So the FOI officer was giving an honest reply.
The FOI officer does not—
I have called Deputy Quinn.
The Taoiseach's reply is not honest.
Deputy O'Keeffe is out of order, he does not have the floor. Deputy Quinn, please.
Will the Taoiseach confirm to me and this House that he has contradicted himself here this afternoon in that the FOI officer has formed the view that the activities of this unit are political. The Taoiseach has attempted to suggest that it is merely administrative. Either one or other is correct.
FOI officers operate independently under the Act. What they say and do is a matter for them. Deputy Noonan asked me what is done by this unit. It does not liaise and does not operate as part of—
It is a political activity according to the FOI officer.
If telling Ministers and Ministers of State what was said on the 1 o'clock news – what court case was discussed, what weather forecast was given – is of great political benefit then my name must be Joe.
Maybe it is.
The Taoiseach is great at painting innocent pictures. I can imagine all these civil servants perusing the weather forecast so that the Taoiseach's much travelled Ministers know which day to go to the airport. The Taoiseach confirmed that the adjudicating officer in the Department assessed the request under the Freedom of Infor mation Act and found that it was not in accordance with the Act on the grounds that the activity of the unit was political, not administrative.
So what?
Civil servants are paid by the taxpayers to work for us all, although there is a belief in Fianna Fáil that they are paid to work for Fianna Fáil. It is undemocratic if the Government has six or seven civil servants paid full-time to assist it in its political activities.
What were the previous Government's advisers and programme managers doing?
I must remind the House that this is Question Time, not a debate.
Will the Taoiseach confirm that the Fianna Fáil press office has on occasions access to this information and that there is a straightforward political link between those paid out of the Fianna Fáil budget and those paid by the public purse?
I deny that. I hope members of the Fianna Fáil press office listen to the radio and read the newspapers. That is what they are paid to do. They have nothing to do with this service. For the umpteenth time I repeat that this office monitors and reports strictly what is on the news and in the newspapers on a daily basis. It issues reports in simple schedules about which everybody knows but which is a very useful service to Ministers, Ministers of State and departmental officials who do not have time to listen to radio all the time. When they are notified of something that is important to them they can communicate with their departmental press officers to contact the relevant programmes to disseminate information. This is an efficient way to do business and it uses no great technology other than employing the services of a handful of people to obtain and disseminate information.
Perhaps the Taoiseach should make this service available to us all.
Prior to this people across Departments used outside agencies to get paper cuttings, clippings and tapes. That was very costly. In 1996 it cost £30 to procure a tape of one of these programmes. I am not sure what the price would be today. The calculation of the savings is based on those 1996 figures. It if was based on 2001 figures it would be substantially more.
Will the Taoiseach confirm that none of the information used by the Fianna Fáil press office to regularly hector RTE, especially, about the appearances of a small number of Members of this House is sourced from the communications unit?
I want to clarify one contradiction. I understand the independent freedom of information officer in the Taoiseach's Department decided that information would not be released because the function of this unit was political, yet in reply to a parliamentary question the Taoiseach has indicated that the function of the unit is not political. Does this indicate that the Taoiseach, having said the civil servant acted honestly and impartially in his reply to the House today, is totally dishonest? If he does not accept that what is his alternative explanation?
The freedom of information officer is independent. A communication of the first five or six items on the 1 o'clock news today is not a political act and it does not advance the Government politically. To suggest otherwise is nonsensical. How is it political and how does it assist the political process to communicate what everybody would know if they had the time to listen?
Will the Taoiseach answer Deputy Rabbitte's question about collusion between the press office and the communications unit?
The Fianna Fáil press office is totally independent.
The Taoiseach did not refer to the point about dishonesty. There is another issue in relation to the communications aspect. Is the communication without comment or are comments of any kind added for anybody, including the Fianna Fáil press office when it gets it?
There is no comment. The only dishonesty involved in this matter is the Deputy trying to suggest that this service is political. The service it replaced was a costly service across all Departments.
The Taoiseach's Department said it was political.
It had massively paid officials.
The Taoiseach's own staff say it is political.
Order, please.
They were in Departments, looking at memoranda and Government bodies.
Who is codding who?
We must proceed to Question No. 4.
That was when there was real political involvement.
Deputy Rabbitte rose.
The Chair has called Question No. 4.