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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 3 Oct 2001

Vol. 541 No. 2

Other Questions. - Garda Station Equipment.

Michael Bell

Question:

97 Mr. Bell asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of Garda stations equipped with video facilities for the interviewing of suspects; the reasons for the delay in providing this equipment; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22004/01]

Tom Enright

Question:

123 Mr. Enright asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the progress made to date in providing video recording facilities in Garda stations; the Garda stations which contain such facilities; the Garda stations in which it is intended to install such facilities; and the date by which such facilities will be installed in each such Garda station. [22288/01]

I propose to take Questions Nos. 97 and 123 together.

I am well aware of the importance of having audio-video recording equipment installed as quickly as possible in Garda stations across the country. I am informed by the Garda authorities that 150 rooms have been fitted out to date and that 50 units of audio-video recording equipment have been installed at 27 locations. The Garda authorities, together with appropriate personnel from the Office of Public Works, are working towards having the remaining selected stations fitted out with the required technical equipment at the earliest possible date.

I have already stated in reply to previous questions on the matter that delays were experienced by the Garda authorities at the tender evaluation stage of the project. These delays were of a technical nature and to do with certain equipment submitted for testing by the suppliers which resulted in a later than hoped for start to the delivery and installation of the equipment in the selected Garda stations. In addition, delays have been experienced with practical difficulties in fit ting out the necessary interview rooms in a number of stations. I will let the Deputy have details of the locations fitted out to date, and those to be completed, at an early date.

Is the Minister not embarrassed or at least disappointed that an announcement he made two years and two months ago to have 200 stations fitted out with audio-video recording machines within 18 months has yet to be implemented? Of the 150 stations he says are now fitted out, how many operate the audio-video recording machines as a matter of routine? How many members of the Garda Síochána have been trained in the protocols and procedures required under the Act for the taking of evidence under the new regime? In concrete terms, when will the final number of stations – 200 – that were promised such equipment two years and two months ago be operational?

I am not embarrassed.

It is difficult to embarrass the Minister.

This proposal has been in

the public arena for many years and nobody said

anything about it. As Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, I secured the necessary funding to ensure the stations would be fitted out with audio video equipment and that was a significant achievement. I am disappointed the work has not been carried out in all these stations to date. I indicated that all stations would be fitted out by the end of this year but, unfortunately, for a number of reasons this has not proved to be possible. As I already stated, there were delays initially at the tender-evaluation stage of the process which held up the placing of the required order for the equipment. Moreover, delays have been, and continue to be, experienced at some locations when adapting the rooms to accommodate the equipment. That said, I expect that in excess of 100 units of audio video recording equipment will be installed by the end of this year. The number of rooms which have been fitted out to date is 150. Of these, 50 units have the recording equipment installed at 27 different locations.

Will the Minister confirm that he is telling the House that of all of the Garda stations in the State, only 27 have audio video equipment? Will he indicate whether the video equipment in those 27 stations is currently being utilised and whether the gardaí who work there know how to utilise it? In addition, will he acknowledge that he informed the House last spring that by Christmas of this year 150 stations would be fitted out with video equipment? Will he outline to the House the practical difficulties that have arisen during the past six months and resulted in his time frame collapsing?

I have already explained the practical difficulties which arose in relation to the tender evaluation and other delays.

That was the Minister's last excuse.

What about the past six months?

It is not a question of excuses, it is a question of fact. These things happened.

That was the excuse you gave in June.

These things happen and, unfortunately, I had no control over them.

What has happened since then?

I obtained the necessary money from the Minister for Finance to implement a programme to put in place audio-video equipment in 150—

He is so incompetent he cannot even spend the money.

—stations, which none of my predecessors had bothered to do. Those are the facts.

After four and a half years—

Deputy Shatter, please.

The reality is that we have made substantial progress. We have moved from a situation where not even one Garda station was fitted out with this equipment when the Government entered office—

In how many stations is the equipment operational?

—to a stage where 150 rooms have been fitted out—

They are not working. There is no equipment in place.

—where there are 50 outfitted with the equipment, at 27 different locations, and where 100 will be installed by the end of the year.

How many are working now?

How many are in use?

Throughout this country, during the term of life of the Government, we will have progressed to the stage—

How many are in use now?

Deputy Howlin, allow the Minister—

(Interruptions.)

—where we will have audio-video equipment in Garda stations across the State, something the Opposition failed to do when in office.

The Minister stated that it is not a question of excuses, but would he not agree that his failure to date is inexcusable? In how many Garda stations where it is installed, is video equipment actually in operation? We want to know whether this equipment is functioning and in use. As the Minister stated, there was no such equipment in place when he entered office but, given he has held his position for four and a half years, that excuse is not acceptable to the House.

I am entitled to assume—

The Minister means he does not know.

—that if there are 50 units of audio-video recording equipment installed at 27 locations—

He does not know.

—where the rooms have been fitted out, then they are operational.

He thinks that is the case.

That said, however, I reiterate—

The Minister does not know the answer.

Deputy Howlin, I ask you to allow the Minister to answer the question. I will move to the next question if he is not allowed to do so.

In direct contravention of what Deputy Enright said, I suggest that the real embarrassment rests with the Administration of which his party was a member and which failed to install a single piece of equipment in a single room.

The Minister does not even know whether the equipment that has been installed is operational.

How many gardaí have been trained in the use of this equipment? Is the Minister giving the House a categorical assurance that the video recording equipment installed in the 50 rooms in the 27 Garda stations to which he referred is in operation?

Deputy Shatter has heard precisely what I have to say on this matter.

The Minister does not know. He and the Minister of State at the Department of Public Enterprise, Deputy Jacob—

Deputy Howlin, please.

I have already explained to Deputies Howlin, Shatter and Enright—

That you do not know.

—that 50 units of audio-video recording equipment have been installed at 27 different locations and that 150 rooms have been fitted out.

(Interruptions.)

In that context, any logical person would be entitled to assume—

The Minister should stop digging.

—the equipment is operational in the rooms in which it has been installed and which have been fully fitted out.

The Minister will check the position tomorrow.

He will write to us.

We have made substantial progress on this matter about which no previous Administration ever did anything, despite the fact that it has been a subject for discussion for 25 years.

The Minister will contact the relevant stations tomorrow.

Apparently the Opposition faces the difficulty during each Question Time of having to try to turn success to failure, otherwise it would be entirely redundant.

Does the Minister agree that his success to date is somewhat like that of the Kerry team against Meath? Does he accept that hundreds of Garda stations across the country have been left without video equipment which members of the force and the public wanted to see installed and that no amount of huffing and puffing can cover up his failure to ensure that the installation programme was successful?

When Offaly have won as many All-Ireland championships as Kerry I will take Deputy Enright seriously. Progress was not made on this matter until this Government entered office. The Opposition should not try to turn success into failure. That just does not work.

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