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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 24 Oct 2001

Vol. 542 No. 6

Protection of Employees (Part-Time Work) Bill, 2000: Report Stage (Resumed).

I move amendment No. 7:

In page 8, to delete lines 10 to 17, and substitute the following:

"(4) In the case of a part-time employee placed by a temporary work agency at the disposition of a user enterprise, the comparator worker shall be a comparable full-time employee in the user enterprise.".

The non-discrimination clause of the EU part-time work directive is the key provision aimed at ensuring that part-time workers are not discriminated against by virtue of being that. The need for equal treatment for agency workers employed on a part-time basis is extremely important. Section 7 as proposed could result in an agency worker never having another comparator worker in the enterprise where he or she is performing like work.

I was unable to attend Committee Stage, as I explained, but looking at the report, it is not apparent that this matter was teased out yet it goes to the heart of this Bill. If agency workers are effectively excluded from the Bill's benefits then it is a major loophole that must be addressed. This amendment seeks to address a serious injustice and to close off this loophole, which will be exploited by a certain kind of employer. Agency workers are excluded because the full-time comparator is another agency worker, rather than full-time colleagues in the enterprise where he or she works. A person placed by an agency to carry out secretarial functions will be compared with another agency worker and not one in the same enterprise. There is nothing to prevent an arrangement between an agency and an enterprise whereby many of those working there would avoid the benefits of the Bill. This section means that an agency worker would not ever have another worker to compare with in the factory or enterprise where he or she earns a livelihood. What protection will a part-time agency worker have when working in an enterprise other than an agency?

On Committee Stage, the Minister held out the prospect of an EU directive in preparation which would address this question. That is a remote prospect, and even if it materialises, it will be at least three or four years away. At the rate that we translate European legislation into law, it will be much longer in coming. In the interim we are stuck with the current situation with no guarantee that the problem identified here will be addressed. A difficulty with this Bill is that it departs from the definitions of the directive which it seeks to implement. I cannot see how section 7(4) can be read in any fashion other than that an agency worker is excluded. If the relevant part-time employee is an agency worker then the application of subsection (3) shall not result in any employee, other than another agency worker, being regarded for the purposes of this Part as a comparable employee. In other words, in simple English, what this means is that the comparison for the agency worker is another agency worker. It is a worker doing like or similar work in the enterprise and, therefore, I cannot see the benefit in this Bill for an agency worker. The Minister gave figures on Second Stage suggesting there are more than 300,000 designated part-time workers. It would be interesting to know what proportion of that number are agency workers. I suspect quite a few are agency workers.

I draw attention to the Tánaiste who referred to the manner in which agency workers are coming to Ireland to work in various jobs and professions. Their rights are not protected. We have actively gone out to bring in agency workers to certain areas where there is a skills or a labour shortage and they are refused cover by this Bill. I cannot see how whatever discussion took place on Committee Stage addresses this problem. Clause 3 of the EU directive on part-time work defines the term "part-time worker" as an employee whose normal hours of work are less than the normal hours of work of a comparable full-time worker. The Minister of State has insisted on putting a far more convoluted definition into the Bill. This is a phenomenon that is growing in our society. There has been a phenomenal increase in atypical working and part-time working in recent years, on which the Minister provided figures on Second Stage. In the past three or four years those figures have dramatically increased. That, I suspect, is partly because of the greater uptake in the work force of women workers who also have domestic responsibilities and to whom part-time work is suited. Therefore, a high proportion of these employees are women. This Bill as it stands discriminates against female workers.

I feel very strongly about this amendment. I do not understand why in section 7 the Minister moved explicitly to include subsection (4), given that he knows the effect of it. Why go out of his way to exclude agency workers? This is a category of worker who has few rights as matters stand. As an economy we have gone out of our way to search for agency workers and we now explicitly put into legislation something that excludes them from the rather limited and modest benefits of the Bill. I do not understand why it is so important to the Minister that this subsection should remain in the Bill. Why can it not be excised and my amendment No. 7 taken on board? Amendment No. 7 is straightforward. Instead of the Minister's subsection (4) it would put in a new subsection (4) which would read:

In the case of a part-time employee placed by a temporary work agency at the disposition of a user enterprise, the comparator worker shall be a comparable full-time employee in the user enterprise.

In other words wherever that person is carrying out his or her daily work he or she is allowed to make comparisons with the full-time worker in that enterprise and is not restricted to comparing with the agency because that may have no significance, good, bad or indifferent, for the enterprise where work is being carried out.

I support Deputy Rabbitte in the definition of "part-time employee". The Bill was guillotined through on Committee Stage in an hour and a half, at most, but the Minister of State said he would report back on several points. I hope he will follow through on this commitment.

The definition of "part-time employee" is very important given the ever changing circumstances in the economy. Part-time employees will become the growth sector. There is a huge demand from employers for part-time employees due to the economies of scale of the services sector which in some cases can generate a 100 hour week. Given job sharing, weekend and evening work is suited to part-time employees who would not be available for full-time employment, it is important that there would be a wide scope definition of "parttime employee". The tax implications of employing a person part time should not have far reaching implications on the main taxpayer. The Minister for Finance had agreed in principle that it should be in the interests of people to take up part-time employment. If so, there should be major tax changes to encourage people into the work place. That is not the case at present.

Deputy Rabbitte made a case for the agency worker. As we speak, there is a huge growth in agency business although an agency is closing down in Sligo due to the fact that it is not being utilised to the extent anticipated 18 months ago. There has been a huge upsurge in bringing unskilled labour to Ireland. Some 75% of all visa applications granted have been to unskilled workers. Given the down turn in the economy, particularly in the tourism and services sector, the applications granted have been in the unskilled sector. It is important to ensure we do not have a crisis on hand. People coming here who had been guaranteed jobs have found, in some cases, that those jobs have not materialised. People are now changing from job to job. It is important that there are clear definitions and that those who are coming here get the jobs they had been promised initially. The agency role which has been utilised until now will not be utilised to the same extent in the future due to the crisis which appears to be emerging.

(Dublin West): I strongly support the detailed points made by Deputy Rabbitte in respect of this issue. What we have here is an exploiter's charter. We have entered a new era in society as far as work practices are concerned. For example, there have been huge increases in the numbers of seasonal and migrant workers. Consequently, there has also been a major increase in the exploitation of workers who find themselves in vulnerable positions. To their credit, some branches of the trade union movement have highlighted the type of abuses visited on these workers by Irish employers in recent years.

It is extraordinary that the Minister of State is introducing regulations that will suit the exploiter rather than protect the employee. Section 7(4), as drafted, is open to major abuse. It is clear that unscrupulous employers, of whom we have seen many examples in recent years, can use this section to escape having to provide agency workers with proper work conditions, wages, etc. Unfortunately, the Irish economy is in a period of turnaround which will have grave implications for many workers. It is the most vulnerable workers who will again be exploited in circumstances which are becoming more favourable to employers because, under the laws of capitalism, unemployment will begin to rise against a background of recession. Agency, part-time and seasonal workers will be most vulnerable as a result. It is shameful for the Government to give support at this time to the type of machinations practised by employers in such circumstances.

The Minister of State should accept the amendment tabled in the names of Deputies Broughan and Rabbitte. We covered similar ground with the Minister of State in respect of the minimum wage legislation. We had to wrestle with him in respect of a number of issues relating to that legislation, which loaded the dice in favour of employers to the detriment of workers in vulnerable positions. I support the amendment and hope the Government will accede to it.

I thank Deputy Rabbitte for tabling amendment No. 7 and also those Deputies who made contributions in respect of it.

Amendment No. 7 arises on foot of concerns raised by the ICTU which believes that in the case of a part-time agency employee performing his or her work in an enterprise other than an agency, it should be possible for such an employee to compare himself or herself with a non-agency full-time worker in that enterprise. Negotiations recently took place at EU level between the ETUC, UNICE and CEEP on the issue of temporary agency workers. However, these discussions collapsed because the parties could not agree a definition of "agency worker." The European Commission is proposing to introduce by the end of this year a new directive on agency workers. The first meeting of national experts to discuss the proposal took place on Monday last, 15 October. At that meeting, member states were divided as to whether a temporary agency worker should be able to compare himself or herself with another agency worker or a comparable full-time employee in the user enterprise. In the light of this development the Commission undertook to consider the issue further before publishing the proposed directive which, I understand, will be required to be agreed by the Council of Ministers by qualified majority and also with the European Parliament under the co-decision procedures laid down in the Maastricht treaty.

The Deputies have raised an important issue in relation to agency workers. However, one would believe from Deputy Higgins's comments that we are not introducing progressive legislation in respect of part-time workers. The underlying message is that this legislation is very much in support of part-time workers. We should not forget this. Deputy Rabbitte acknowledged that there are approximately 250,000 part-time workers awaiting the enactment of this legislation and I am glad the House is co-operating in expediting its passage.

I do not have in my possession the figures relating to agency workers, but will certainly try to establish the number of such workers in the labour market for Deputy Rabbitte. Many employers are now using agency workers on a longer term basis and it is this fact which led the European Union to address the issue. We must deal with it through the European Union process because all other member states are treating it in the same way. It is a new phenomenon that agency workers are being employed on a longer term basis.

It is untrue to suggest that agency workers do not have a comparator because they can actually compare their conditions with workers employed with different agencies. Many people like to work as agency workers because in some cases they are happy to work for a morning or an afternoon. Flexibility works both ways and there are many people who enjoy the opportunity to be employed as agency workers.

Like my counterparts in other European Union countries, I intend to maintain the position which exists. However, I totally support the need to consider the new directive at EU level and will use my influence to expedite the process in that regard. A number of Members raised matters in relation to the directive and I can inform them that there may be opportunities to compromise, as often happens when one is dealing with employers and employees and their representatives at EU level. One suggestion is that, for example, an agency worker who might be with a company for a number of months – be it three or six months – could be compared to a permanent worker with the company.

Members who have been involved in the debate on the Bill are aware that the legislation is about flexibility and encourages employers and employees to try to work through the new type of regime that exists. I want to see flexibility from both sides. However, like other Members, my fundamental concern is to ensure workers are protected. This legislation will protect them and represents a huge improvement on existing law.

Deputy Rabbitte's amendment refers to a different issue, namely, that of temporary agency workers. The people concerned require particular attention because many of them are now working on a longer term basis for employers. However, many are happy to work so long as they are adequately paid. As already stated, they can compare their conditions with those of workers employed by other agencies. If they so wish, they can take a case, first, to their employer and, second, to a rights commissioner.

I apologise for speaking at length about this issue. I will expedite matters to the best of my ability at EU level. I remind the House that other EU countries are in a similar position to us and that we intend, with our EU colleagues, to resolve this matter as quickly as possible.

I am disappointed the Minister of State chooses to pursue this at EU level. Will he not start here? This is an opportunity to set a precedent in Ireland and it is a pity to make comparisons with other agencies. That is inadequate because he is aware of the huge level of competition within such agencies. It is a hugely profitable business and people within the agency circuit are on the stock exchange. The Minister of State has an opportunity to set a precedent here.

I am disappointed the Minister of State has not accepted this amendment as there are defects in the Bill. It also confers benefits but later we will come to a definition that actually worsens the position of some part-time workers in terms of pension entitlements. However, this is the major loophole.

If one were to summarise what the Minister of State said, it is: "let us wait for Europe" and that has been the history of our membership of the European Union. When it comes to workers' rights and equality and non-discrimination issues, the European Union has been the inspiration for the legislation put through this House since for mer Deputy Michael O'Leary's time. The Minister of State is saying here that we should wait for Europe and that we have started work on a new directive on agency workers which will deal with this.

Whatever might be concluded down the road on agency workers at EU level, it will be a difficult matter for Europe to agree on for a whole variety of reasons, such as emigrant labour and the extent of agency working in certain countries. As Deputy Perry said, why can we not agree now to take on board a modest measure that would afford the agency worker the opportunity to compare with workers in the same enterprise who are full time? The Minister of State mentioned flexibility and I agree with him – this ought to be a two-way street and it is true that it suits some workers to be in this category. However, it also suits a great many employers, so it ought to be a two-way street.

As it stands, this is an invitation to discrimination if it is included. The Minister of State went into the temporary agency phenomenon and we have had a number of cases highlighted of very bad treatment of workers in that category by a minority of employers here. Is the Minister of State prepared to say he will review this phenomenon, which I believe is growing? We will have a long wait for a directive; we will certainly have a very long wait for a directive to be transposed into Irish law on the issue. After 12 months will the Minister of State review this mechanism? He has conceded he does not have figures specifically for agency workers and obviously this has not taken up a great deal of time so far. Some review mechanism might help.

I will have to press this amendment as this section is a weakness in the Bill. I cannot understand why the Minister of State claims that because work has started in Europe – and he knows what a long, drawn-out procedure that is – on a directive for agency workers we will have to wait. Why can we not include this modest measure now and renovate the legislation as necessary when the time comes?

I accept Deputy Rabbitte's point, which is real and needs to be addressed. I understand it is not just a matter of starting work at the European level because employers and employees have been discussing it at that level for 11 months. The other argument about the European Union, and I am as committed a European as Deputies Perry and Rabbitte, is that it makes sense for us to have common legislation as members of the EU, with a common employment grouping. People can move around and work in each others' countries, which we appreciated when we recently had a labour shortage. That said, I am prepared to review this matter within a year.

Also, one suggestion on the table involves looking at temporary agency workers who would be in employment for a number of months in comparison with a permanent worker. That suggestion came from us to the EU so it is not as if we are waiting around for others to come up with bright ideas. One problem is that it is difficult to define an agency worker.

We are proactively involved at EU level and there are good reasons we should have a common legal position for this type of worker. I am prepared to review the situation as there will be a new Government in place by then. I will certainly make the commitment that this matter be reviewed in 12 months because if we can make advances, and I am conscious that such advances are being made, we should introduce them as soon as possible.

I do not deride the efforts of the Minister of State on this issue. We agreed the day I introduced the first Bill on this issue in the House. I thank the Minister of State for his commitment to review this after 12 months because this is a growing phenomenon.

This is still the major weakness in the Bill and once the Bill is enacted, with the best will in the world, a new Government will be in place and this will be difficult to revisit in any meaningful way. There is now an opportunity to make the modest substitution for which I am arguing, to replace subsection (4) with the subsection I have outlined. It would be a modest improvement and protection for workers who are very vulnerable by definition. Regrettably I have to press this amendment.

Question put: "That the words proposed to be deleted stand."

Ahern, Bertie.Ahern, Dermot.Ahern, Michael.Ahern, Noel.Andrews, David.Aylward, Liam.Blaney, Harry.Brady, Johnny.Brady, Martin.Brennan, Matt.Brennan, Séamus.Briscoe, Ben.Byrne, Hugh.

Callely, Ivor.Carey, Pat.Collins, Michael.Cooper-Flynn, Beverley.Coughlan, Mary.Cowen, Brian.Cullen, Martin.Daly, Brendan.de Valera, Síle.Dempsey, Noel.Dennehy, John.Doherty, Seán.Ellis, John. Tá–continued

Fahey, Frank.Fleming, Seán.Flood, Chris.Foley, Denis.Fox, Mildred.Gildea, Thomas.Hanafin, Mary.Harney, Mary.Haughey, Seán.Healy-Rae, Jackie.Jacob, Joe.Keaveney, Cecilia.Kelleher, Billy.Killeen, Tony.Kirk, Séamus.Kitt, Michael P.Kitt, Tom.Lenihan, Brian.Lenihan, Conor.McCreevy, Charlie.McDaid, James.McGennis, Marian.McGuinness, John J.Moffatt, Thomas.

Molloy, Robert.Moloney, John.Moynihan, Michael.Ó Cuív, Éamon.O'Dea, Willie.O'Donoghue, John.O'Flynn, Noel.O'Hanlon, Rory.O'Keeffe, Batt.O'Keeffe, Ned.O'Malley, Desmond.O'Rourke, Mary.Power, Seán.Reynolds, Albert.Roche, Dick.Ryan, Eoin.Smith, Brendan.Smith, Michael.Wade, Eddie.Wallace, Dan.Wallace, Mary.Woods, Michael.Wright, G. V.

Níl

Allen, Bernard.Barnes, Monica.Barrett, Seán.Bell, Michael.Belton, Louis J.Boylan, Andrew.Bradford, Paul.Broughan, Thomas P.Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).Bruton, John.Bruton, Richard.Burke, Ulick.Clune, Deirdre.Cosgrave, Michael.Coveney, Simon.Crawford, Seymour.Creed, Michael.Currie, Austin.D'Arcy, Michael.Deenihan, Jimmy.Dukes, Alan.Durkan, Bernard.Enright, Thomas.Farrelly, John.Finucane, Michael.Fitzgerald, Frances.Gilmore, Éamon.Gormley, John.Hayes, Brian.Hayes, Tom.Healy, Seamus.

Higgins, Joe.Hogan, Philip.Howlin, Brendan.Kenny, Enda.McCormack, Pádraic.McDowell, Derek.McGahon, Brendan.McGrath, Paul.McManus, Liz.Mitchell, Jim.Mitchell, Olivia.Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.Naughten, Denis.Neville, Dan.Noonan, Michael.O'Keeffe, Jim.O'Sullivan, Jan.Owen, Nora.Penrose, William.Perry, John.Quinn, Ruairí.Rabbitte, Pat.Ring, Michael.Ryan, Seán.Shatter, Alan.Sheehan, Patrick.Stagg, Emmet.Stanton, David.Timmins, Billy.Upton, Mary.Wall, Jack.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies S. Brennan and Power; Níl, Deputies Bradford and Stagg.
Question declared carried.
Amendment declared lost.

I move amendment No. 8:

In page 8, to delete lines 38 to 42.

The effect of this amendment would be to excise subsection 9(4), which provides that the benefits conferred in subsection (1) are constrained. It states:

Subsection (1) shall, in so far, but only in so far, as it relates to any pension scheme or arrangement, not apply to a part-time employee whose normal hours of work constitute less than 20% of the normal hours of work of a comparable full-time employee.

Subsection (4) effectively excludes those working under eight hours per week from pension scheme rights. The Minister is probably aware that the ICTU, for example, is arguing that this is in breach of the directive which the Bill sets out to implement. They also rightly point out that the section may constitute indirect sex discrimination. It is interesting to look at the quarterly national household survey for the third quarter in 2000, the most recent one available. It shows that three quarters of part-time workers are women.

Some 209,700 women were recorded as part-time workers compared to 68,200 male part-time workers. I suppose Members of the House will not be surprised that three quarters of part-time workers are women. Therefore, there seems to be a prima facie element of discrimination in excluding those working under eight hours.

Deputy Roche will collaborate what I am saying. If one works a typical 39 or 40 hour week, eight hours might seem modest enough but if, for example, one has a teaching contract for eight hours it is not to be sneezed at. There are people in full-time university chairs – I know some of them are burdened writing articles for the Independent group of newspapers – who do not much more than eight hours full-time teaching contract. I would like to hear the Minister's rationale for this because the directive as I read it does not permit a blanket exclusion as proposed in this section.

What objective grounds exist for excluding all workers who work less than 20% of normal hours in a week from all pension schemes and arrangements? The Minister went out of his way on Committee Stage, which I read subsequently, to pay tribute to me for suggesting the percentage and proportion rather than the eight hours threshold and so on. One must be very wary when Ministers pay tribute across the House.

We improved the Bill.

When I drew attention to this blanket exclusion I suggested that a proportion or percentage would be an improvement on eight hours, which is the case. While I am pleased the Minister took this on board, it does not tackle the fundamental issue. For example, for the category of workers I mentioned such as part-time teachers, the threshold of 20% of normal time as distinct from eight hours might be an improvement. If the normal comparison with full-time workers applies in that case it certainly could be an improvement. However, this does not tackle the inequity which exists. Congress is of the view that the Bill, for the first time, puts an impediment in the way of workers who already enjoy participation in a pension scheme. There is currently no legal barrier to employees who work less than 20% of normal hours per week joining a pension scheme or arrangement but Congress is of the opinion that this proposal is tantamount to a legal barrier. It is certainly an invitation to employers to discourage workers below that threshold from joining a pension scheme or such an arrangement.

I do not believe the directive permits a blanket exclusion or that any objective arguments exist for the exclusion of all workers who work less than 20% of normal hours in a week. The Bill provides no objective grounds for this. There are no provisions in the Bill for reviewing periodically this exclusion having regard to the principle of non-discrimination.

As it is now 12.15 p.m., I propose the adjournment of the debate.

Debate adjourned.
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