Vol. 544 No. 2
1 Mr. Creed asked the Minister for Education and Science the reason his Department is refusing to reply in detail to specific and detailed parliamentary questions regarding school building projects; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [28157/01]
2 Ms Shortall asked the Minister for Education and Science the implications for the school building programme arising from the Estimates of expenditure for 2002; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [28411/01]
One will appreciate that it is with great difficulty I stand here today while Ireland is into the last 20 minutes of the match. Nevertheless, the job must go on.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 and 2 together.
Since taking office, this Government has made unprecedented and substantial capital investment in the education sector. The allocation this year of over £370 million across all levels is almost four times the allocation made by the previous Government in 1997.
I am committed to continuing the significant programme of investment in school infrastructure commenced by this Government when it took office. I am determined to maintain the rate of progress made by this Government to date in overcoming the historic deficit in relation to school building and in meeting the needs of today. Over 800 major building projects are currently being progressed. The rate at which any particular project moves forward depends on factors such as the acquisition of a suitable site, the complexity and size of the project, the time required to undertake architectural planning, the period of time required for the granting of planning permission and obtaining a fire certificate, the outcome of the tender competition and the procurement, where relevant, of bonds, insurance and tax clearance by prospective contractors. Following the publication of the Estimates of expenditure for 2002 and once all budget decisions have been taken by the Government, I will finalise the detailed capital programme for major school building in 2002. The programme will demonstrate to all concerned the scale and substance of the Government's commitment.
I already indicated my intention to press ahead with a radically new communications strategy for the building unit of my Department that will allow school authorities and other interested parties, including Members of the Oireachtas, access up to date information on any building project. My Department is examining a web-based approach that will be consistent with e-government and in particular the Government' s commitment to put Ireland at the forefront of e-procurement developments.
Members of this House are fed up to the back teeth with tabling specific and detailed parliamentary questions about the current state of individual school projects and receiving no specific or detailed information about those projects in reply. I consider it to be an abuse by the Minister of parliamentary privilege.
I acknowledge that the staff in the schools building unit in Tullamore are overworked and under-resourced. Notwithstanding the recommendations for reorganisation of the building unit, does the Minister find it acceptable to issue a standard response which contains no detail to all individual detailed questions about school building programmes?
I wish to make it clear that we have a major programme under way. That programme is continuing. Deputies are asking when that programme will be completed—
There is no specific information.
This depends on the allocations in the budget and in the Estimates. The Deputies will be a little wiser today because they will realise that I have received a good allocation in the Estimates for capital projects. The budget has yet to come and when the whole process is completed we will be very clear on how much extra we can take on. We are doing four times what was done before; there is a huge volume of work under way and that work will continue. There is no question of freezing work as the Deputy suggested outside and he upset many people throughout the country. The funds are now provided. The Estimates show that the money to continue is there. I hope the Deputy will desist from this ridiculous—
The time for this question is concluded. There is no provision for going beyond six minutes.
Questions Nos. 1 and 2 were taken together.
My apologies, Deputy Creed, that allows 12 minutes for the question.
Will the Minister confirm that there is no increase provided for in the building unit for major building projects at either primary or second level? We have seen an exercise in smoke and mirrors from the Minister. As Deputy Creed said—
A question please, Deputy Shortall.
If you will allow me to complete a sentence. As Deputy Creed said, it is impossible to get any clear information—
A question, please. We want an orderly question.
We want some answers too.
The Chair has no control over the answer a Minister gives. The purpose of questions is to elicit information from the Minister.
In view of the fact that the Minister told us last summer that there are 850 applications for major capital projects under consideration by his Department, how many of those projects have been dealt with? How many have been given the go ahead? What is the cost involved? The standard practice is that the estimated outturn is included in the Estimates. Those figures are unfortunately not included in today's Estimates. What does the Minister expect the outturn to be for his Department in terms of capital projects?
The outturn for the end of this year will be above the Estimate that was included.
That means the Minister is spending less this year on capital projects.
We shall have to wait and see what the outturn is at the end of the year.
Deputy Shortall, please allow the Minister to answer the question.
We will not have the outturn until the end of the year. There will be a Supplementary. We have a 6% increase on capital spending in the Estimates for next year.
On a point of order.
We want an orderly Question Time.
In the interests of clarity I ask the Minister to confirm—
Deputy Shortall, we must have an orderly Question Time. I have no choice but to move on to the next question.
There will be further developments. We have over 800 projects. Some of those are completed; many more are going through the process. They will continue—
Are there any increases in the Estimates for building projects?
I would prefer, Minister, if you did not answer questions that come in this manner. We want an orderly Question Time.
Today we signed a contract for five new schools under PPP; these are five separate schools apart from that 800 plus.
The Minister should answer the question. Is there any increase in the building programme for schools?
Of course there is. The Minister for Finance in his statement today says that there is a 6% increase on a very large figure which is over four times what the previous Government was spending in that area.
Will the Minister give me the reference?
I am talking about schools.
Deputy Shortall, if you do not cease interrupting, I will ask you to leave the House.
The Minister is misleading the House.
The Deputy should resume her seat. We want an orderly Question Time and if the Deputy continues to interrupt when the Minister is replying, I will ask her to leave the House.
We want honest answers as well.
The Chair has no control over the answers.
The Minister is misleading the House.
There must be an orderly Question Time.
The Leas-Cheann Comhairle sees his role as controlling this side of the House. Perhaps he should control that side also. We must get answers to questions.
The Minister is answering questions that arise by way of interruption and I ask him not to do so. I am trying to control both sides of the House.
The Deputy asked for a reference and it is on the last page of the Minister for Finance's statement. As I said, today I signed contracts, worth £64 million over and above what was spent previously, for major school developments in Tubbercurry, Ballincollig, Clones, Dunmanway and Shannon.
Announced again.
They are complete projects and will include PE halls and state-of-the-art facilities. They will include all the new items that have been discussed.
The Minister did not manage to get any increase.
In addition—
I ask the Minister not to answer questions that come by way of interruption.
Such announcements are a decoy.
May I put another question because we are not getting answers to these questions?
The time for this question is exhausted due to interruptions. However, I will allow the Deputy to ask a brief question and the Minister to respond, but that will be the end of this question.
Will the Minister accept, on the basis of the evidence, that he has been pushed around the Cabinet table and into a corner? There is no increase in his Department's funds and he has failed to fight the battle on behalf of education.
I ask the Deputy to allow the Minister to respond. We have already spent 12 minutes on this question.
Children involved in 850 school projects throughout the country will be consigned to education in inadequate buildings because of the Minister's failure to get an increase.
When that side was in government in 1996, it spent £32 million on post-primary schools. This year the Government will spend £139 million. In relation to primary schools, in 1996, the then Government spent £29 million. This year the Government will spend £92.6 million and this figure will increase next year.
We must move on to the next question, Minister.
Most of the schools on the INTO list are in architectural planning and some of the works have been completed already. They will continue this year.
