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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 21 Nov 2001

Vol. 544 No. 4

Ceisteanna–Questions. - Constitutional Amendments.

John Bruton

Question:

30 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement in respect of each of the individual recommendations of the all-party review committee on the Constitution; if the Government is broadly in favour of the recommendation or otherwise; if otherwise, the reasons therefor; if there are technical difficulties with the recommendation; if so, if he will identify these difficulties; the Government Departments to which the recommendation has been referred for further study and action; the study and action that has occurred so far; and his general approach regarding the taking of constitutional amendments arising from the report concerning the procedure to be adopted for putting them before people, either in composite form or individually. [24157/01]

Ruairí Quinn

Question:

31 Mr. Quinn asked the Taoiseach the recommendations of the all-party review committee on the Constitution which have been implemented; the recommendations which the Government has decided not to implement; and the recommendations which the Government is still considering; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [26414/01]

Michael Noonan

Question:

32 Mr. Noonan asked the Taoiseach the position in respect of the implementation of the recommendations of the all-party committee on the Constitution; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [28471/01]

Trevor Sargent

Question:

33 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach the status of the recommendations made by the all-party review committee on the Constitution; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [28549/01]

I propose to take Questions Nos. 30 to 33, inclusive, together.

The all-party Oireachtas committee on the Constitution has, to date, produced five reports, the first dealing with general recommendations, the second dealing with the Seanad, the third dealing with the President, the fourth dealing with the courts and the Judiciary and the fifth dealing with abortion. In these five reports the committee has recommended 55 items for constitutional amendment, of which 16 are of a minor-technical nature.

The committee's recommendations in relation to the Referendum Commission and local government have been acted on while its recommendation in relation to the abolition of the death penalty in the Constitution was put to the people on 7 June and passed that day.

I am circulating in the Official Report two tables, one dealing with 39 recommendations contained in the five reports and one dealing with the 16 minor-technical recommendations. The Government is broadly in favour of these recommendations and tried to move forward earlier this year on the recommendations in the fourth report on the courts and the Judiciary, but could not get agreement from the parties in the House. The first report was circulated to all Departments for observations, the fourth to the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the fifth to the Department of Health and Children.

As I have said in the House on previous occasions, a way of putting these amendments to the people, in either an omnibus form by grouping them or individually, is being considered by my Department. However, this is not an easy task as the Deputies will appreciate.

Summary of Recommendations of Five Reports

Report

Article

Recommendation

1

1st

13.2.2º28.10

The Power to dissolve Dáil Éireann:Delete this Article dealing with the power to dissolve the Dáil and replace with a more detailed version and also insert a new subsection.This will lead to a subsequent rewording of Article 28.10.

2

1st

26.2.1º34.4.4º26.2.1º

Constitutionality of Bills and Laws:Amend Article 26.2.1º to read “not less than seven judges” and not “not less than five judges.”This will need to be reflected in a new 34.4.4º.Amend this article to read “not later than 90 days”, and not “not later than 60 days”.Subsequent to the two amendments above:Delete 26.2.2ºDelete 34.4.5ºDelete 34.3.3º and replace with new wording.Amend 50.1 by adding certain wording.

3

1st

New

Local Government:Provides as follows:(a) Local Authorities shall be empowered to carry out the functions which the Oireachtas may from time to time devolve upon them by law.(b) Elections to local authorities shall be held at least once every five years.(This amendment was signed into law as the 20th Amendment of the Constitution on 23 June 1999.)

4

1st

New

Provide for an Electoral and Ethics Commission.

5

1st

New

Insert a new Article dealing exclusively with the Ombudsman.

Report

Article

Recommendation

6

1st

41.2

Woman in the Home:Delete 41.2 and replace with new wording.

7

1st

12.1

Amend Article 12.1 by inserting after the first “who” the words “as the Head of State”.

8

1st

12.2.3

Delete the words “and on the system of proportional representation”.

9

1st

12.4.1

Substitute the word “Completed” for “reached” in the English language version of this Article.

10

1st

16.3.1

Article 16.3.1º is the same as Article 13.2.1º and is therefore redundant – Summoning and dissolving of Dáil Éireann – a similar provision already exists in Article 13.2.

11

1st

17.1.2

Amend Article 17.1.2º to read:“Save in so far as may be provided by specific resolution in each case, the Financial Resolutions of each year passed by Dáil Éireann shall have immediate effect and full force of law provided that legislation confirming any such resolution is enacted within a year”.

0

1st

15.5

Extend the prohibition of the Oireachtas retrospectively declaring Acts to be illegal to provide also that heavier penalties may not be imposed retrospectively in legislation.

13

1st

15.7

Provide that the Oireachtas shall hold at least one session each year.

14

1st

15.15

Amend reference to “allowances” to “emoluments” in the provision for the payment of allowances to members of the Houses of the Oireachtas.

15

1st

16.1.1º18.2

Reduction of age of eligibility for Dáil and Seanad to 18 years.

16

1st

18.5

Removal of postal requirement in relation to voting in Seanad elections.

17

1st

18.8

Make provisions to enable a Seanad election to be rescheduled where a second General election is called before a Seanad election takes place.

18

1st

18.9

Define polling day for the purposes of defining the term of a Senator.

19

1st

16.1.1º

Deletion of reference to “without distinction of sex” in the Constitutional provision for the age requirement of membership of the Dáil and Seanad.

20

1st

28.6.2º28.6.3º

To make provision for the exercise of the powers of the Taoiseach in the event of both the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste being unable to act.

21

1st

29.4.2º

Deletion of this Article which for practical purpose is spent, having been designed to accommodate the position of the Crown prior to the coming into force of the Republic of Ireland Act, 1948.

22

1st

31.2.ii

Deletion of references to the President of the Executive Council of Saorstáit Éireann in the provision relating to the Council of State.

23

1st

35.3

Amend the Irish language text of Article 35.3 by substituting “intofa mar chomhalta” for “ina chomhalta”.

24

1st

35.3

Amend Article 35.3 to read:“No serving judge shall be eligible to stand for election for the office of President or for membership of either House of the Oireachtas or for membership of any other elected assembly nor shall he or she hold any other office or position of emolument or any other position inconsistent with the office of judge.

25

2nd

18.4.8

Change in composition of Seanad to:–the direct election of 15 members–the indirect election of 28 members–the election of 6 members from single-seat 3rd level constituencies.

26

3rd

12.2.3º

Delete reference to proportional representations regarding election of President.

27

3rd

12.4.1º

Correct discrepancy between Irish and English text on age requirement for election to Office of President.

28

3rd

12.4.1º

Reduce the age of eligibility for Office of the President from 35 years to 18.

29

3rd

12.4.2º

Allow for a more accessible nomination procedure.

30

3rd

12.6.3º

Provide that the President should not hold any other position inconsistency with the Office of President.

31

3rd

12.8

Provide for a non-religious affirmation as an alternative to the Oath taken by the President on taking Office.

32

3rd

13.6

Delete reference to capital cases in the right of pardon vested in the President (this constitutional amendment was carried by the people in a referendum held earlier this year).

33

3rd

31.2.ii

Deletion of references to the President of the Executive Council of Saorstáit Éireann in the provision relating to the Council of State.

34

3rd

31.4

To allow the option for an affirmation as an alternative to the Oath to a Member of the Council of State.

35

4th

34.5.1º

Provide for affirmation by a Judge as an alternative to taking an Oath on entering Office.

36

4th

35 various

Lists a number of amendments relating to the conduct of Judges and removal from Office.

37

4th

38.3.1º

Amendments provide that Special Courts would function under the same rules as general Courts, except, of course, for a Jury e.g. requirement that justice be administered in public.

38

4th

34.2

An amendment to allow for the possibility of Courts other than Courts of First Instance and a Court of Final Appeal.

39

5th

New

Three proposals:(a)concentrate on the plan to reduce the number of crisis pregnancies and the rate of abortion and to leave the legal position unchanged.(b)support the plan to reduce the number of crisis pregnancies, accompanied by leglislation which will protect medical intervention to safeguard the life of the mother, within the existing constitutional framework.(c)support the plan to reduce the number of crisis pregnancies, to legislate to protect best medical practice while providing for a prohibition of abortion, and consequently to accommodate such legislation by referendum by referendum to amend the Constitution.

Article

Basis of Amendment

Recommendation

1

12.1

The Constitution does not describe the President as the Head of State. The need for this reticence disappeared after the coming into force of the Republic of Ireland Act, 1948 and the removal from the British Monarch of all functions in relation to the external affairs and their assignment to the President.

Amend Article 12.1. by inserting after the first “who” the words “as the Head of State”.

2

12.2.3º

This Article describes the method of election of the President as “proportional representation by means of the single transferable vote”. The term “proportional representation” denotes the filling of a number of seats by different parties in proportion to the votes they receive. It cannot refer to the filling of a single seat.

Delete the words “and on the system of proportional representation”.

3

12.4.1º

There is an apparent discrepancy between the English and Irish versions of this Article. The Irish version has “as a bhfuil cúig bliana tríochad slán” (that is, who has completed 35 years) whereas the English version is “who has reached his thirty-fifth year of age”, which could mean has entered rather than completed that year.

Substitute the word “completed” for “reached” in the English language version of this Article.

4

15.5

This Article should be extended on the lines of Article 7 of the European Convention on Human Rights so as to provide that a heavier penalty shall not be imposed than was applicable at the time the offence was committed.

Amend Article 15.5 to read: “The Oireachtas shall not declare acts to be infringements of the law which did not constitute a criminal offence at the time of their commission. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the criminal offence was committed”.

5

15.7

The Oireachtas consists of the President, Dáil Éireann and Seanad Éireann (Article 15.1.2º). Typically, the President does not sit with the Dáil and Seanad, nor do the Dáil and Seanad sit together. The clear object of Article 15.7 is to prevent government without parliament by ensuring that each House of the Oireachtas shall sit at least once every year.

Amend Article 15.7 to read: “Each House of the Oireachtas shall hold at least one meeting every year”.

6

15.15

It is not clear from the term “allowances” that Article 15.15 relates both to emoluments and expenses of deputies and senators. Accordingly, the word “allowances” should be deleted and the word “emoluments” inserted in its place.

Amend Article 15.15 to read: “The Oireachtas may make provision by law for the payment of emoluments to the members of each House thereof in respect of their duties as public representatives and for the grant to them of free travelling and such other facilities (if any) in connection with those duties as the Oireachtas may determine.”

7

16.3.1º

Article 16.3.1º is the same as Article 13.2.1º and is therefore redundant.

Delete Article 16.3.1º. Article 13.2.1º – Dáil Éireann shall be summoned and dissolved by the President on the advice of the President”. Article 16.3.1º –“Dáil Éireann shall be summoned and dissolved as provided by section 2 of Article 13 of this Constitution”.

8

17.1.2º

Article 17.1.2º has generally been understood as giving constitutional authority to the practice whereby the Dáil (but not the Oireachtas) anticipates the enactment of the Finance Act each year by the collecting of certain taxes on the authority of the resolutions passed by it in relation to the Budget. However, the matter should be put beyond doubt by explicit statement.

Amend Article 17.1.2º to read: “Save in so far as may be provided by specific resolution in each case, the Financial Resolutions of each year passed by Dáil Éireann shall have immediate effect and full force of law provided that legislation confirming any such resolution is enacted within a year”.

9

18.5

The word “postal” in this Article makes the Seanad election process specifically – and unnecessarily – dependent on the postal services.

Delete the word “postal” from Article 18.5.

10

18.8

Article 18.8 does not envisage the possibility that a second general election might be called before the 90 days within which the Constitution provides that a Seanad election will take place. Such a possibility would create a situation where a second Seanad election would have to be called before the first one was completed.

Amend Article 18.8 to read: “A general election for Seanad Éireann shall take place not later than 90 days after a dissolution of Dáil Éireann. If Dáil Éireann is dissolved before the general election for Seanad Éireann is completed, that Seanad election shall be cancelled and an election related to the more recent Dáil dissolution shall be held instead. The first meeting of Seanad Éireann after the general election shall take place on a day to be fixed by the President on the advice of the Taoiseach”.

Article

Basis of Amendment

Recommendation

11

18.9

This Article does not define the polling day. The latest date upon which an elector can vote should be the polling day.

Amend Article 18.9 by adding: “The latest date upon which an elector can vote shall be the polling day”.

12

28.6.2º

This Article provides for the Tánaiste to act for the Taoiseach in certain circumstances but makes no disposition for what should happen if both the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste are unable to act in an emergency. There should be a provision for the nomination of a member of the government to act in such circumstances.

Amend Article 28.6 by adding a subsection as follows: “If the Tánaiste is unable to act in the place of the Taoiseach in the circumstances defined in subsections 2º and 3º of this section, a designated member of the government who is also a member of Dáil Éireann shall so act”.

13

29.4.2º

Article 29.4.2º was designed to accommodate in the Constitution the arrangement whereby the British crown was authorised under legislation, the Executive Authority (External Relations) Act 1936, to carry out certain functions in relation to external affairs which included the accreditation of diplomatic representatives.

Delete Article 29.4.2º

14

31.2

All those who have held the office of the President of the Executive Council of Dáil Éireann are dead, therefore the words “or the office of the President of the Executive Council of Saorstát Éireann” in Article 31.2.ii are obsolete.

Delete the words “or the office of the President of the executive Council of Saorstát Éireann” from Article 31.2.ii.

15

35.3

The Irish and English versions of the text of Article 35.3 appear to be discordant. The English refers to “eligible”, whereas the Irish uses the words “a bheith ina chomhalta”. The latter phrase suggests, that while a judge could stand for election to the Oireachtas, he or she could not take his or her seat if elected. The English phrase more accurately reflects the underlying purpose of this section, in that a serving judge would be simply debarred from standing for election.

Amend the Irish language text of Article 35.3 bringing it into conformity and substituting “intofa mar chomhalta” for “ina chomhalta”.

16

35.3

The prohibition in Article 35.3 should be extended to the Presidency and to membership of any elected assembly. In addition to being prohibited from taking up paid appointments, serving judges should, in order to uphold public confidence in the judiciary and public perception of their independence and impartiality, be prohibited from taking up any position which is inconsistent with the office of judge under the Constitution.

Amend Article 35.3 to read: “No serving judge shall be eligible to stand for election for the office of President or for membership of either House of the Oireachtas or for membership of any other elected assembly nor shall he or she hold any other office or position of emolument or any other position inconsistent with the office of judge.

Does the Taoiseach accept that in respect of the sixth report of the committee chaired by his party colleague, Deputy Brian Lenihan, which was published earlier today, the Government is in significant breach of one of its recommendations regarding the treatment of referenda legislation coming before the House, specifically with regard to the Committee Stage debate on the Twenty-fifth Amendment of the Constitution (Protection of Human Life in Pregnancy) Bill? Is the Taoiseach aware of the conclusion on page 37 of the report which I was unable to outline earlier due to interruptions that in order to ensure widespread understanding across the citizenry of this Republic there is an onus on the minority of those of us engaged directly in politics to ensure there is a full and comprehensive debate? Does he not believe the removal of the Committee Stage debate on the Bill in question from the floor of the House to a committee room in the bowels of Leinster House runs contrary to the spirit of that recommendation?

On a related matter, in order to address that deficit, which perhaps cannot be done by reversing a decision of the order of the House today, does the Taoiseach intend at any stage to speak in the House on the referendum? Does he intend to outline his views on the matter? Does he intend to campaign as vigorously as he did in the Nice treaty referendum?

I canvassed vigorously in the Nice treaty referendum as did some other Members of the House, although not many did.

I will be good enough not to refer to the Minister, Deputy de Valera, and the Minister of State, Deputy Ó Cuív.

And the Minister for Finance, Deputy McCreevy.

In relation to the report, all its recommendations are being examined. With regard to the recommendation to which Deputy Quinn referred, I will not return to political points of the issue. I served my time well on various committees. I recall it was Deputy Quinn's suggestion many years ago, with which I agreed, that parliamentary committees should be used to facilitate more detailed debate. Prior to that the House tended to go through a small section of a Bill on which the debate finished with the tabling of a question on an omnibus of amendments. The Deputy suggested that many more hours debate on Committee Stage would be gained through his initiative. I believe that as I am sure he does and will not cross swords with him again on it.

A committee of the House may be convened when an issue is interesting enough. We have seen this with regard to CIE related issues. I watched some of its proceedings, as I am sure many others have. That was also the case with the DIRT inquiry which was conducted by a committee. The nation tuned in to watch its proceedings. Unfortunately, not all the proceedings of the committees nor of the House get the same attention.

I have been present in the House during the years debating various legislation, probably boring myself and others to tears, when there has been an empty Public Gallery and Press Gallery and only a few Members present. There is a view that taking Committee Stage of a Bill in the House will mean that all Members will be engaged and give it their full attention which will lead to a more comprehensive and meaningful dialogue, but I am sure there will be an interesting debate on the amendments about which we talked this morning.

Will the Taoiseach speak in Committee?

We had far better and more comprehensive debates on Finance Bills in the House than we had in Committee. I am sure the Taoiseach's memory stretches back that far. We discussed more amendments and sections.

A committee of the full House.

I had that experience four times.

The time allocated for Taoiseach's questions has been exceeded.

I remember precisely the time in 1992 when the position changed. I remember there were Schedules to a Bill which, if I recall correctly, related to changes in energy tax, which probably motivated Deputy Quinn's initiative. We would not have reached those Schedules under the normal arrangement because it was an enormous Bill. It was for this reason that the move was made. At the time a committee of the House met in the Seanad chamber. I do not think we have lost anything as a result of that change.

Several recommendations have been brought forward by the committee. It has done an enormous amount of valuable work, but most of its findings will fall to the next Government to implement. A number of referendums have been held during the lifetime of this Dáil. Useful work has been done, but the major issue is to develop a method of having omnibus referendums. I will try to bring it to that stage in the next six months, but if we deal with the issues in separate refer endums we will never get the programme of constitutional reform that is necessary. The only way to do it is by holding omnibus referendums.

As the Taoiseach will visit my constituency tomorrow, he might outline to the House the announcements he proposes to make in County Kerry.

That is a separate question.

No doubt the Deputy will be the first to know.

Martin Ferris and—

It is all right. Deputy Deenihan will not be the target.

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