The Order of Business today shall be No. 54, Asset Covered Securities Bill, 2001 – Order for Report and Report and Final Stages; No. 55, Heritage Fund Bill, 2001 – Order for Report and Report and Final Stages; No. 56, Family Support Agency Bill, 2001 – Order for Report and Report and Final Stages; No. 7 – Road Traffic Bill, 2001 – Second Stage, resumed. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. tonight and business shall be interrupted not later than 10 p.m.; Report and Final Stages of No. 54 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 12.30 p.m. by one question, which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Finance; Report and Final Stages of No. 55 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 1.30 p.m. by one question, which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands; Report and Final Stages of No. 56 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 5.30 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Social, Community and Family Affairs; and Question Time tomorrow shall be taken at 3.30 p.m. until 4.45 p.m. and in the event of a Private Notice Question being allowed, it shall be taken at 4.15 p.m. and the order shall not resume thereafter. Private Members' Business shall be No. 118, motion re censure of Deputy Thomas Gildea, resumed, to conclude at 8.30 p.m. tonight.
Order of Business.
There are five proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for the late sitting agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 54 agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 55 agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 56 agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for the taking of Ques tion Time tomorrow agreed? Agreed. I will now take Leaders' Questions and I call on Deputy Noonan.
Members are aware that it is expected the voluntary redundancy package being offered to Aer Lingus workers will be finalised today. Unfortunately this morning Servis Air announced 250 redundancies at Dublin Airport and predicted losses at Shannon and Cork airports. The company blamed a downturn in the global aviation sector. Because of this further evidence, would the Taoiseach agree it is unlikely that equity for Aer Lingus will be found within the aviation industry? Will he report to the House the progress he or his Ministers are making in getting the EU Commission to allow the Irish Government put equity into Aer Lingus, which is absolutely necessary in parallel with the reconstruction package to save the airline?
Will the Taoiseach outline where the Government stands in relation to equity and additional funding for Aer Lingus? On the issue of enhancing any redundancy package outside the commercial operations of the company so as to ensure Aer Lingus can obtain the necessary reductions it deems essential to maintain viability, will the Taoiseach confirm the Commission, while concerned about market distortion in relation to State aid for the ongoing commercial operation of the company, is not opposed to the provision of funding for restructuring in relation to social packages, including paying the cost of redundancies? In other words, will the Taoiseach confirm the Commission would have no objection to the Government enhancing any redundancy package in order to get the necessary take-up, provided that financing did not find its way back into the commercial operations of the company?
Servis Air is one of the largest ground handling companies operating in Ireland and the UK with more than 12,000 employees. It has issued protective notice to 250 staff and about 13 other workers have received redundancy notices. The staff concerned provide cargo, courier and ground handling services. The company has been here since 1989 and has made clear it has taken this action because of the fall off in operations and numbers travelling. The Commission for Aviation Regulation has a role in respect of the ground handling industry at Dublin Airport.
Regarding Aer Lingus, negotiations have continued in the LRC and today it is due to give the conclusions of its deliberations over the past number of weeks. The LRC has remained in close contact with the Minister, the company and the trade unions. I have also kept in touch under the social partnership process with the ICTU, the trade unions and the company, as has the Minister who has had a number of meetings. The survival plan is at a very sensitive stage. A number of amendments have been made to it in the negotiations, including on the outsourcing of workers to keep employees within the operation, on staff over 55 years of age and on other aspects, including on pay issues and cost factors, particularly in the context of the PPF and the ability of the company to pay the terms set out. It has also examined what would happen in any ultimate sale. These matters have been discussed at length and there has been some progress on them. We must now wait to see what happens.
I emphasise the effort being made as part of the plan is to sustain as many jobs in Aer Lingus as possible under the best possible terms and to give the best terms possible to those who have to leave on retirement or redundancy packages. Everybody has acted in good faith.
The Government has continued to keep in touch with the EU and the Commissioner in relation to what can be done. The Commission has not changed its position. Regarding Deputy Quinn's question as to what is allowed, that issue has been explored extensively by the Department. The EU Commission has not opened the position in relation to other airlines and has been very rigid in that regard. We will continue to make our case as part of the survival plan.
I appreciate that negotiations on the redundancy package are at a delicate stage and the difficulties for management, staff and the families of staff who may be made redundant. Therefore, I do not want to ask in particular about the negotiations on the redundancy package but rather focus on the provision of equity which is absolutely necessary for the future of Aer Lingus. It seems it will be difficult to get equity from within the aviation industry. What progress is the Government making in its contacts with the EU Commission? I have been informed by a reliable source that the Government, despite all the talk and all the answers given in the House, has made no written submission to the EU Commission requesting equity. Is this correct? If not, it should be denied immediately.
I appreciate what the Deputy said about the negotiations being at a sensitive stage and what is involved is well understood by the company and the LRC – there are no great secrets. Whatever about letters which have formally been passed by the Department, the officials of the Department have had a number of meetings directly with the Commission.
However, there has been no written submission.
No written submission.
Answer yes or no.
There are minutes of the meetings.
No case has been made to the Commission.
The Taoiseach without interruption.
The case has been made to the Commission, the Commissioner—
Incompetence.
It has been made in formal meetings between the Minister and the Commission—
Publish the written submission if it has been made.
The Commission is fully aware of the situation and the minutes of all the meetings held are available.
Answer the question.
The Deputy should table a question to the Minister for Public Enterprise.
The Taoiseach should not respond to interruptions.
What did the Government consider?
One would not approach a bank manager without writing him a letter.
The issue of equity has been discussed not only with the Commission but also with the President of the Commission. If the House does not want to listen, I assure the workers in Aer Lingus that every avenue to assist them is being followed and will continue to be followed.
(Mayo): On a point of order.
The Deputy cannot intervene or interrupt during leaders' questions.
(Mayo): On a point of order.
The Deputy has no entitlement to raise a point of order during leaders' questions. The Deputy should resume his seat.
(Mayo): I can make a point of order.
The Deputy should resume his seat.
Mr. Higgins (Mayo): Will the Taoiseach lodge the written submission on the record of the House?
An Ceann Comhairle
I call Deputy Quinn.
(Mayo): I have put a simple question to the Taoiseach.
The Deputy is out of order. This is leaders' question time. The Deputy has no entitlement to intervene during leaders' questions.
(Mayo): I have a point of order.
The deputy may not intervene on a point of order during leaders' questions. I call Deputy Quinn.
Newspapers report today that Dublin Bus has put on hold some major developments in terms of the national development plan, including the acquisition of land at Ballymun-Harristown for 52 million, which would be an integral part of its modernised bus facility as part of the national development plan – it is extensively reported in one of today's national newspapers – because it cannot get clarity from the Government in relation to future financial commitments. The acute traffic situation in Dublin does not require any detailed description. The plan is for Dublin Bus to increase its fleet from 1,000 to 1,500, including 250 buses which would be managed by a subcontractor. However, this can only occur if there is a commitment in relation to funding and if CIE and its subsidiary company, Dublin Bus, are in a position to acquire land at Harristown and also in Tallaght. They cannot get a clear commitment on funding from the Government. As a consequence, the national development plan is now seriously delayed.
Does the Taoiseach agree that the fact that the plans of Dublin Bus to help solve the traffic problems in Dublin cannot now go ahead, because of the inadequacy of the Estimate, is further evidence that his Government has squandered the boom and, after four and a half years in office, still left us with all the difficulties? I know the Minister for the Environment and Local Government regards this as humorous, but, then, we regard him as very funny also.
Many regard Deputy Noonan as humorous.
Order, please. The Taoiseach to reply.
Dublin Bus, like every other institution, will get its allocation for next year from the relevant Department. In recent years, as the Deputy will agree, since the eight QBCs were put in place, Dublin Bus has acquired 275 extra buses, all wheelchair accessible. Bus Éireann has 74 new buses. All the new buses scheduled for last year and this year are now on their routes and all the targets which the Minister for Public Enterprise set out in 1998 have been fulfilled. I do not know the figures for next year, but all commitments to date have been met. The capacity of Bus Éireann buses has been increased by about 40% and there is also an increase in the capacity of Dublin Bus on all QBCs. I am sure that, whatever allocation is made for next year and whatever discussions take place between the company and the Minister for Public Enterprise will be equally successful.
Are we to take it from the Taoiseach's reply that this newspaper story is a piece of fiction? It is pointless for him to talk about QBCs – that is not what I asked about. Can I return to the question I asked? The Government's much vaunted national development plan was a seven year programme in which consistency and commitment in relation to spend are an integral part. It is not a matter of seven disconnected years of expenditure – they are supposed to be seven inter-connected years of expenditure. In order to have forward planning, CIE and its subsidiary, Dublin Bus, need a commitment in respect of certain capital funds, to wit, 52 million for the purchase of land at Ballymun-Harristown. The fact that old clapped out buses have been replaced has nothing to do with the national development plan, per se. What is required is the additional buses to increase the fleet by up to 50% and those buses cannot be purchased, nor can commitments to purchase them be entered upon, until such time as a place to house them is provided for. That is the import of today's newspaper story. Will the Taoiseach, please, answer the question put to him? Why is a company 100% owned by the State unable to get clarity from the stakeholder, that is, the Government, in relation to commitments about which the Government is well informed concerning expenditure for the next couple of years?
There is £1.5 billion being spent on public transport and traffic management, including the provision for Dublin Bus, Bus Éireann and other initiatives. The individual figures for 2002 will be negotiated between the Department of Public Enterprise and, in this case, Bus Éireann, following the production of the Book of Estimates. It is the intention of the Minister for Public Enterprise, in the light of the national development plan as in other areas, to accede to those issues that are in the plan. If they are not in the plan, then there is a difficulty. I am not quite sure whether the issues which the Deputy is raising are in the plan. If they are, it is the Minister's intention to provide for them.
It is important to note that there has been a phenomenal increase in the number and capacity of buses within the city and if there are other—
The Taoiseach to continue without interruption, please.
If there are other issues within the £1.5 billion plan, I have no doubt that Bus Éireann, through its representatives—
Does the Taoiseach not realise—
Deputy Ryan is out of order. The Taoiseach to continue without interruption. Will Deputy Ryan, please, resume his seat?
The improvement of the services of Dublin Bus has continued every year, without exception.
I will now take relevant questions on the Order of Business.
May I ask the Taoiseach, when he is ordering business for the next few weeks, to inform the House of arrangements for reporting on the Laeken Summit? Will he raise the issue of equity for Aer Lingus at the summit and explain the reason no written submission has been made to the Commission on—
I ask Members to confine their questions to promised legislation.
There was no answer.
When will the Competition Bill be brought before the House?
After Christmas.
I understand, from a briefing which the Cork city manager gave to members last night, that amending legislation is being prepared following the Supreme Court decision that local authorities are obliged to collect refuse, whether service charges have been paid. Can the Taoiseach confirm that such legislation is being prepared and, if so, when will we see it?
There is no legislation planned. As I explained in the House two weeks ago, the judgment in that case is being examined and, as soon as the legal examination is completed, the Minister will make the position clear.
Is the Taoiseach aware that An Post is refusing to accept any publicity post?
Questions about what the Taoiseach is aware of are not relevant. Does the Deputy have a question on promised legislation?
Tá ceist agam ar promised legislation. When will the Postal (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill be introduced in the Dáil? That is relevant to the question I have asked, which is relevant to every Member of the House.
The legislation is published and awaiting Order for Second Stage.
When will the veterinary medicines Bill come before the House to allow us discuss the unworkable and ill-considered regulations being brought forward by the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Rural Development? Will the Taoiseach inform the House if he needs any legislation to intervene in the dispute in Letterkenny, where children are not being paid money—
That is not a matter for promised legislation.
The heads of the veterinary medicines Bill were approved in July and the Bill is ready for drafting.
Will the Government publish the disabilities Bill before Christmas?
That is still the intention. I received a briefing on it last evening and efforts are continuing to have it completed.
Endeavouring.
They hope to achieve it. Work has been in progress every day, it is an absolute priority and they hope to have it published before Christmas.
(Mayo): Will a special Aer Lingus Bill be required to accommodate the equity arrangement now being sought for Aer Lingus? Will the Taoiseach outline all the correspondence between him and the European Commission—
That is not relevant to the Order of Business. Is there promised legislation?
(Mayo): I have two questions, one on Aer Lingus—
I ask the Taoiseach to deal with promised legislation.
There is no legislation promised. Instead of writing letters, I went to the full Commission to address this issue, which is far more effective.
(Dublin West): Barbaric massacres of captured prisoners are taking place on a daily basis in Afghanistan, in total contravention of the Geneva Convention. Yesterday, directed by US and British military specialists—
The Deputy must confine his question to promised legislation. There are other ways in which he can raise that matter.
(Dublin West): It is about the Order of Business which is also within the remit of the Standing Order.
It is not in order on the Order of Business.
(Dublin West): The ordering of business in the Dáil is in order. Will the Taoiseach give the Dáil an opportunity to discuss this horrific situation—
That is a matter for the Whips.
(Dublin West): A Cheann Chomhairle, the ordering of business is within the Standing Order. I am just asking the Taoiseach to give Members an opportunity to express the revulsion of this country at this bloody massacre.
It is not promised legislation. The Deputy should resume his seat.
(Dublin West): I appeal to the Ceann Comhairle to allow the Taoiseach to reply. My question is in order.
I call Deputy Shatter.
The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform raised the possibility of new legislation relating to missing persons. In the context of the widespread concern in the House that Deputy Gildea has been kidnapped by the Government Chief Whip because he has not been seen in the chamber since last Wednesday, will the Taoiseach give priority to that legislation—
The Deputy should not abuse the House on that matter.
—and is there a possibility that Deputy Gildea might be found before 7 p.m. this evening?
The Deputy is not such a great attender himself.
There is a Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill promised to address a range of housing issues. It is due to be published this session. I have two questions about it. First, will it be published before the Christmas recess? Second, will there be anything in it to deal with the plight of the 1,000 children—
The Deputy knows he is not in order.
—who are homeless on the streets of Dublin as we speak?
The Bill is still due to be published this session.
I call Deputy Deasy.
I asked for permission to speak five minutes ago.
Will there be legislation to reform the health boards in view of the Government report which inadvertently appeared on the Internet yesterday? It indicated that reform of the health boards was badly needed.
Is this promised legislation?
It is the document that was suppressed.
There is no legislation. It is a 600 page report which will be published in full next week, as I announced last Monday morning.
Why was it suppressed?
It is action in the pensions area rather than legislation that is required for Aer Lingus workers at present. The Sustainable Energy Bill was last seen in the House on 25 October and now appears to have been kidnapped. This is an issue of concern to many on low incomes, particularly the elderly, with the arrival of winter. It was promised that Second Stage of the Bill would commence before now, but it does not appear to be considered a priority by the Government.
The Bill is published. Second Stage is scheduled to start on 6 December.
In view of the confusion as to whether there will be work permits for people coming from other countries to work here, will the Taoiseach arrange for the work permits legislation to be published before Christmas? This would clear up some of the confusion as to whether foreign workers can continue to come to this country. The Tánaiste has made a number of statements on the issue.
We want jobs for our own too.
The issue raised by the Deputy does not require legislation, but the work permits Bill is due to be drafted. The heads of the Bill were approved in the summer.
My question is related to the next Stage of the European Union Bill. Deputy Noonan referred to the Belgian Presidency summit which will take place in Laeken in two weeks. The House will have adjourned by the time the Taoiseach departs for Laeken. In the spirit of the European Union Bill, which was accepted by the Government, will the Taoiseach instruct the Government Chief Whip to negotiate with the Opposition Whips to provide time prior to the Taoiseach's departure to the summit to discuss the Government's position, specifically in relation to the composition of the convention and the participation of the House, which has to be represented at that convention? We will then know the Taoiseach's position before—
There are a number of parliamentary questions on that matter today.
I know, but the Bill accepted by the Government will provide for prior presentations by Ministers. This is an important summit because it will commit the Intergovernmental Conference to arriving at a new treaty to be agreed during Ireland's Presidency in 2004. Will the Taoiseach allow the Government Chief Whip to arrange with the Opposition Whips to provide time in the week after the budget for a presentation by the Taoiseach outlining the Government's position in relation to these matters and for questions and answers? This should take place before the Taoiseach leaves to negotiate on behalf of the State.
Certainly, we can look at that. The Deputy is asking that it take place before the summit—
The House will be adjourned.
Is he asking that it take place in committee or in the House?
The House would be preferable since it is a most important summit and the Taoiseach will be the lead person, unless he wishes to go to the committee. He does not usually go to committees.
I did so previously.
It would be preferable to do it here.
I will ask the Chief Whip to make time available.
I call Deputy Belton.
I take it the Deputy only wishes to discuss the convention.
There are a number of issues in the Laeken summit.
There are.
Deputy Noonan has referred to the equity for Aer Lingus.
Aer Lingus is not on the agenda for the summit. Let us be clear about that.
There are a number of issues on the agenda for Laeken—
Enlargement and the Nice treaty.
Come to the forum.
Since the Government has accepted in principle the spirit of the European Union Bill, which provides that Irish Ministers will outline what their negotiating position is prior to attending a Council of Ministers meeting, including a summit, the Taoiseach should reflect the spirit of that legislation in a pre-summit meeting. The House will be adjourned until the end of January, long after the Laeken summit will have concluded.
The Taoiseach can reply after Deputy Jim Mitchell puts his question.
A Cheann Comhairle, you already called me.
I did, but I want to finish this subject first. The Deputy will be called.
I did not want to interrupt the possible next Government.
The Deputy is like one of the muppets.
We want to finish this subject.
Did I hear correctly that Aer Lingus and the fate of European airlines will not be on the Laeken summit agenda?
We will not discuss what is and is not on the agenda.
Can the Taoiseach clarify that?
I am glad to clarify it. It is not on the agenda for the Laeken summit—
Why not?
This is the issue with having a debate. There is little point in having a debate about what is not on the European agenda.
It is not important enough.
It is not on the agenda. The agenda has been set out and one does not just raise something at European Council summits—
I have allowed enough latitude on this question.
Why is it not important?
Let us hear from Deputy Belton.
Before the Ceann Comhairle rules me out of order—
Get your retaliation in first.
—I have two questions. One refers to education. It is obvious that the Government is doing four year's homework in four months. Will the Taoiseach ask the Minister for Education and Science to make some decision about St. Joseph's secondary school in Newtown Forbes?
The first question is out of order, but in view of the length of time the Deputy has waited I will let him ask the second.
The Minister for Social, Community and Family Affairs has spent a stack of money—
That is not a question.
—explaining the changeover from the punt to the euro. However, he did not spend any money explaining to old age pensioners how to change from sterling to the punt. He is a disgrace.
Do not tempt him. He will only take out another full page advertisement.
The second question is out of order too.
Dr. Upton
When will the Radiological Protection Institute (Amendment) Bill be back before the House?
It is not scheduled before Christmas. It will be in the spring session.
Mr. Coveney
This morning one of my young constituents is in hospital in Cork after a vicious, unprovoked attack with a claw hammer at the weekend.
A question for the Taoiseach.
Mr. Coveney
I am coming to it, a Cheann Chomhairle.
The Deputy will be ruled out of order if he does not ask it.
Mr. Coveney
The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform promised new legislation to curb the increasing levels of street violence and public disorder. Is new legislation planned or will the issue be dealt with in the Criminal Justice (Garda Powers) Bill?
I have a question on the same issue. A visitor to our shores, Guido Nasi, suffered appalling injuries as a result of a barbaric attack on him which resulted in a court conviction yesterday. The House should acknowledge the dreadful consequences for Guido Nasi of what occurred and express its sympathy.
In the context of the question raised by Deputy Coveney about street violence and further legislation, I ask whether the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has advanced his further consideration as referred to in the House of reintroducing a criminal injuries compensation scheme in the context of new legislation which he suggested he would bring before the House?
The matter raised by Deputy Coveney is covered by existing legislation. The Minister also said he was reviewing some of the issues in relation to street violence and rowdiness and such matters. He has not yet finished his review, but said he was looking at public order issues.
I join Deputy Shatter and all other Members of the House in extending sympathy to the young man who received terrible injuries a few years ago. There is no promised legislation on that matter about which the Minister has spoken. I will bring the Deputy's comments to his attention.
On a point of order, for reasons I do not quite understand, a Cheann Comhairle, when I was raising the question that you allowed me to raise, the Minister, Deputy Dermot Ahern, was muttering under his breath the words "self interest." I do not know what that snide remark meant, but think he should clarify it. In the context of the very serious issue raised, it was an appalling example of the Minister's usual parliamentary incompetence.
We might bring in the compensation tribunal.
Dirty tricks department.
Order, please.
It is an appalling way to deal with a serious issue. The Taoiseach replied in a serious way to a matter raised in good faith. The Minister should withdraw the comment. It is highly inappropriate.
I withdraw the comment.
The Chair was concentrating on what Deputy Shatter was saying.
The remark should be withdrawn
The Minister has withdrawn the comment.
I asked when we will be discussing the Prison Service Bill. Two weeks ago the Taoiseach gave an undertaking in the House that time would be provided for a discussion of the preliminary talks of the World Trade Organisation in Doha. Will he indicate when time will be provided and which Minister will be taking the debate?
Both the Minister, Deputy Walsh, and the Minister of State, Deputy Kitt, attended the meeting.
I know that. Which of them will be reporting to the House?
The Whips have not yet agreed, but I think it will be the Minister of State, Deputy Kitt.
My first question is in relation to the Prison Service Bill. In view of what is happening in the Irish Prison Service—
Work is proceeding on the Bill. The heads have not yet been completed. It will be next year before the Bill is published.
It was promised before Christmas.
In the forthcoming Social Welfare Bill will the Minister and the Taoiseach attempt to restore the situation—
That is not in order. I call Deputy Durkan.
Does he not recognise that it is very hard to reconcile—
The Deputy is completely out of order.
On promised legislation, may I ask the Taoiseach whether it is intended to amend the broadcasting Acts to facilitate the reading of news on television by Ministers? At present they are only allowed to do the ads.
The actors were better.
We do not need "Bull Island" with this crowd.
May I ask the Taoiseach whether he intends to make any provision in the Finance Bill—
That is not in order.
I am asking about promised legislation. It is promised legislation.
A question on the Finance Bill is in order, but not on its provisions.
I will put the question this way: 450,000 small shareholders in Eircom were misled by the Government.
We must conclude the Order of Business. The Deputy is not in order in raising that matter. We now proceed to No. 54, Asset Covered Securities Bill, 2001 – Report and Final Stages, to conclude at 12 30 p.m. if not previously concluded.