Vol. 548 No. 2
45 Mr. U. Burke asked the Minister for Public Enterprise if she has received a recent report regarding the grievances of the Retired Aviation Staff Association; if she will meet with the association with a view to resolving its members' pension grievances; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [4462/02]
78 Mr. S. Ryan asked the Minister for Public Enterprise her plans to further assist members of the Retired Aviation Staff Association in their campaign for enhanced pension increases following the erosion of payments over a number of years; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [4397/02]
127 Mr. Sargent asked the Minister for Public Enterprise if the Government will make an agreement payment to RASA members; and if their pensions will be index linked prior to the Government leaving office. [4537/02]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 45, 78 and 127 together.
I am aware of the concerns of the Retired Aviation Staff Association about pension increases from the Irish airlines (general employees) superannuation scheme. Over the past two years or so I have responded to numerous representations in relation to the concerns of the retirees' association about the Irish airlines scheme. I have also met representatives from the association and senior officials from my Department met with the association on a number of occasions last year. In addition, the association has also met senior management representatives from Aer Lingus and Aer Rianta in relation to their concerns.
I have not received any request for a further meeting with the association. As Deputies will be aware, I committed the case made by the retired aviation staff association for enhanced pension increases for Aer Lingus and Aer Rianta pensioners to my colleague Deputy McCreevy, the Minister for Finance, who has overall responsibility for pensions in the public sector. I received a reply from him last September, the contents of which have been communicated to the retirees' association.
The Minister for Finance does not consider that it would be appropriate to accede to the request from the Retired Aviation Staff Association for an Exchequer injection into the pension fund and that there must be continued adherence to the long-standing policy in this area, namely that pension entitlements for employees of commercial State bodies, including Aer Lingus and Aer Rianta, are a matter for the trustees, the members of the relevant scheme and the companies involved. As regards pension enhancements to benefit both serving staff and existing pensioners going forward, I have been advised that there is no provision in the Aer Lingus survival plan for any extra costs in relation to pensions.
In so far as Aer Rianta is concerned, I understand that the company, in consultation with staff interests, is in the process of establishing its own separate pension scheme in accordance with the provisions of section 32 of the Air Navigation and Transport (Amendment) Act, 1998.
(Mayo): Is that the definitive reply from the Minister? Is the book firmly closed in regard to giving these people any joy? Does the Minister not accept that this is a small dwindling number of ex-employees who stood Aer Lingus and Aer Rianta in good stead during their developing phases? They now have a genuine grievance in regard to their level of pension. Whatever new pension scheme is put in place for the existing employees will not matter one whit to these people. They are a special case with a legitimate claim which should be addressed. What cash figure has been indicated in terms of satisfying the demands of the people concerned?
I accept that these ex-employees contributed very strongly to the growth and prosperity of the companies concerned. They gave immeasurably of their work, spirit and enthusiasm. Let us bear in mind the view of the Department of Finance which deals with public service pensions, that the pension entitlements for commercial semi-State bodies are a matter for the trustees, the members of the relevant schemes and the companies involved.
The pensioners suggested that the costs associated with their proposal would be £33 million which could be funded on an annual basis by the companies from operating revenue. That is their computation of what the amount might be.
I am glad the Minister has brought this matter to a conclusion because she has been dilly dallying around it for two years. Does the Minister agree that it was most unfair to the 4,500 pensioners involved in this case to lead them astray to the degree they were led astray by both the Minister and the Department who clearly indicated to them that they would be assisted in their case?
The last time I raised this matter was 20 June 2000. I asked if the Minister would be the association's advocate with the Minister for Finance and she agreed to this even though it is not in the record. Does the Minister agree that she was a very poor advocate? The Minister for Finance said what Ministers for Finance always say when there is no pressure on them –"No". Will the Minister confirm that the Minister for Finance with whom she has joint Cabinet responsibility is saying "No" to these people?
I made the response of the Minister for Finance quite clear in my reply. I made the case very strongly to him.
I saw a copy of it and it was not very strong.
The Minister replied: "Thank you for your letter of 20 June concerning the claim. I have noted your request to give the claim my sympathetic consideration". I particularly asked that he and his Department would do so.
I would have expected a lot more than that.
I cannot deal with pensions. We have no funding for public service pensions. I do not regret meeting the people involved. I am willing to meet anybody who wishes to meet me. I made it clear that I would speak to the Minister and write to the Department on their behalf. The Department of Finance stated that it cannot deviate from the guidelines for dealing with State bodies' pensions. The Department of Finance cannot do any more about the matter.
That is neither true nor accurate. Matters such as this have been dealt with in the past. The last Minister to do something like we are advocating here was the former Fianna Fáil Taoiseach, Deputy Albert Reynolds. It is nonsense to say it cannot be done. It can be done but political will is required. It is obvious that there is no political will here and it will fall to the next Government to do something about this matter.
Be that as it may, I have given an account of how the matter stands. I cannot, nor do I consider that I should, prevaricate on this issue. Nor should I fabricate an answer or a promise which I cannot give.
The Minster should have told that to the association members two years ago and not strung them along.
I met the pensioners whom I strongly believe contributed to the growth of the company.
They did not get much thanks for that.
I presume the Department of Finance also met with them. I will follow up on that. I have outlined the current situation.
