Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 28 Feb 2002

Vol. 550 No. 1

Other Questions. - Local Authority Housing.

Jan O'Sullivan

Question:

11 Ms O'Sullivan asked the Minister for the Environment and Local Government his estimate of the number of applicants on local authority housing lists at the latest date for which figures are available; the amount by which he estimates the number of applicants has increased since the last assessment of housing needs, conducted in spring 1999; the number of local authority houses completed during 2000 and 2001; the number of voluntary sector houses completed in 2000 and 2001; when the next assessment of housing needs will be undertaken; when the results will be published; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6977/02]

Mr. Dempsey:

As indicated in reply to Parliamentary Question No. 4, local authority housing output, including both new build and acquisitions, amounted to 5,022 units last year, an increase of 1,815 units or 57% on the 2000 output of 3,207 units. This was the highest level of local authority housing completions in over 15 years. In addition, some 7,000 local authority housing starts were achieved in 2001 and I am confident that the very high level of work currently in progress under the multi-annual programme approach introduced by the Government should deliver some 5,500 completions this year.

I will not read out the remaining part of the reply as it would simply repeat what I have already said.

Mr. Gilmore:

How many people are now on local authority housing waiting lists?

Mr. Dempsey:

The official figure for the 1999 assessment is 39,176 households.

Mr. Gilmore:

I asked the Minister how many people are on the waiting lists now, rather than three years ago.

Mr. Dempsey:

As the Deputy well knows and as has been explained to him, the only official figures we have are the figures for the assessment. We have accepted that this figure has increased over the last three years, but there is no official figure for the increase.

Mr. Gilmore:

Is the Minister seriously telling the House that, in the middle of what is probably the worst housing crisis this country has experienced, he, as the senior Minister in charge of housing policy, cannot tell us how many people are waiting for local authority houses? Does he not have available to him the results of the housing strategies which were adopted by every local authority in the country last July, which tell him how many people are on the waiting lists of each local authority? Is it not the case that there are now about 60,000 applicants, representing somewhere in the order of 150,000 people, on local authority waiting lists and that he is, frankly, ashamed to admit that in the House?

Mr. Dempsey:

The Deputy would be the first to object if I gave misleading or incorrect information in the House.

Mr. Gilmore:

Why not give the House the estimated figure?

Mr. Dempsey:

The Deputy did not ask for that. He asked—

Mr. Gilmore:

The Minister should give the estimate.

Mr. Dempsey:

No, I will not—

(Interruptions.)

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

Please, Deputy Gilmore. The Minister without interruption.

Mr. Dempsey:

Deputy Gilmore can produce figures off the top of his head—

Mr. Gilmore:

Give the figures.

Mr. Dempsey:

I gave the Deputy the figures. The only official figures are the ones I gave him.

(Interruptions.)

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

If the Minister addresses his remarks through the Chair, the Chair will try to prevent interruptions.

(Interruptions.)

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

The Minister is entitled to reply to the question asked by Deputy Gilmore. I ask the Deputy to resume his seat.

(Interruptions.)

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

If Deputy Gilmore does not resume his seat, I will ask him to leave the House.

(Interruptions.)

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

The Minister should note that the Chair is on its feet. Deputy Gilmore will leave the House if there is another outburst like that. There must be some respect for order in the House. I call Deputy Olivia Mitchell.

Ms O. Mitchell:

Whatever the actual numbers may be, I am sure the Minister is aware, as are all public representatives, of the untold human misery the lack of housing is causing for people who are dependent on local authority housing and the importance of increasing the supply by giving local authorities every possible help to increase the delivery of housing. Does the Minister agree that one of the deficiencies of local authorities is that they are not really geared up as building companies and, in many cases, lack the kind of resources a private building firm would have? Will he consider resourcing local authorities for project management, if necessary by handing over to the private sector the design, management and bringing to fruition of local authority estates? A percentage of the cost should be involved, as in the system which now applies to the voluntary sector.

Mr. Barrett:

Will the Minister ask his officials to telephone each local authority to establish the number of people on the waiting lists in each local authority area at this time? Will he kindly send a written reply outlining the exact numbers involved?

Mr. Dempsey:

An accurate assessment will be carried out in March which will indicate precisely the number of individuals and households waiting for housing accommodation. As I said earlier, there was a considerable difference between the housing list figures and the number of people actually in need of housing.

Mr. Barrett:

The Minister should give the figures.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle:

The Minister without interruption.

Mr. Dempsey:

I live in a county that has three urban district councils. Some housing applicants are on all three urban district council lists and on the county council list. Therefore, if one just takes the waiting lists at face value, people will be counted four times rather than once. The assessment is the best indication of the true position. I have had no complaints from any local authority that it has insufficient funding for the number of houses it can build.