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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 20 Mar 2002

Vol. 550 No. 4

Priority Questions. - Psychological Service.

Róisín Shortall

Question:

33 Ms Shortall asked the Minister for Education and Science his views on recent reports that the Society of St. Vincent de Paul is frequently requested to provide financial assistance to families who need a psychological assessment for a child; whether this is acceptable; his further views on whether the current 2% limit imposed on schools for funding from his Department militates against schools in disadvantaged areas where a far higher percentage of students would have difficulties; and if he will take urgent action to remove this inequity. [9231/02]

It is my intention that a full educational psychological service should be made available to all children in schools, free of cost, as soon as is practically possible. A full educational psychological service to schools includes programmes of screening, early intervention and systemic work as well as an assessment service where appropriate.

I recently announced the acceleration of recruitment to the National Educational Psychological Service agency – NEPS. The Civil Service and Local Appointments Commission is completing a recruitment competition on behalf of NEPS and a substantial number of appointments are to be made in the coming months. I hope the service will be made available to all schools within the next 12 months.

As an interim measure pending this welcome development, I announced funding last June for the scheme for commissioning psychological assessments. This scheme is primarily available to those schools that do not yet have access to the NEPS service. To allow all eligible schools the opportunity to access the available funding and taking account of likely incidences of disability, the number of assessments per school has initially been determined by the number of pupils to a maximum of two per 100 pupils enrolled. However, NEPS is completing a review of the operation of the scheme. NEPS will then make recommendations to me on any adjustments that might be appropriate in future. My objective will be to ensure that adequate resources are made available in cases where assessment is appropriate.

I am aware that there tends to be a higher incidence of children in disadvantaged areas who need access to extra educational supports. My Department has provided a range of schemes to meet their needs and children do not need to have been psychologically assessed to benefit under these schemes.

That is a laughable reply. We have just come through a period of the strongest economic growth ever experienced in this country. After five years in Government, is the Minister ashamed by the fact that many children from poor families are dependent on the Society of St. Vincent de Paul to gain access to basic psychological intervention? Is he, as the Minister who came to power less than three years ago talking about concern for disadvantage, even remotely embarrassed by the fact that we are now in the position where people from the most disadvantaged backgrounds must go begging for charity to access psychological services?

The Society of St. Vincent de Paul has done wonderful work over the years, especially in disadvantaged communities. I supported it in that work when I was Minister for Social Welfare and it continues to receive that support.

I have taken two initiatives in the area referred to by the Deputy. One is that we were to have 200 psychologists by the end of 2004. The Government agreed to allow us proceed to that number by the end of this year. That advanced the programme. The other initiative is that we have increased the number of psychologists bringing the total to almost 100.

What happens in the meantime?

We must go through the Civil Service and Local Appointments Commission. I cannot just appoint people and I would be wrong procedurally to do so.

What happens before the full service is implemented?

The Deputy should let me finish. The Civil Service and Local Appointments Commission is reaching the final stages of the recruitment competition for the next phase. It is hoped that, subject to the necessary sanctions or clearances, it will be possible to appoint more than 60 psychologists from this competition which will mean 160 will be in place. It has been estimated for some time that, if 200 were employed, we could cover all needs. We are well on the road to that.

The other fund which I obtained from the Government last September is being used by NEPS to meet deficits where they arise. I agree with the Deputy that, if special deficits still arise in disadvantaged areas, they should be able to avail of the fund.

What does the Minister mean by saying "if there are deficits"? Does he not know they exist? Did he hear the reports in the media about the role the St. Vincent de Paul has to play in disadvantaged communities? Is it not clear that, in disadvantaged schools, the demand for psychological assessments will be much greater than 2% of the schools' pupils?

I am not talking about when there will be a fully functioning psychological service. I want to know what will happen in the meantime where the Minister has imposed a limit of 2% of all pupils in a school as the number of children who will have access to psychological assessments in the private sector. What on earth is his basis for limiting these to 2%? Is it not the case that, because the Minister is doing that and because the demand for psychological services is much greater than 2% in disadvantaged areas, the St. Vincent de Paul must step in to fill the gap he has left? Is the Minister prepared to do anything to give people their rights in terms of those children in disadvantaged areas and to remove the stigma of those people having to seek charity to gain basic psychological services?

Acting Chairman

The time for this question has expired.

There must at least be time to answer this type of allegation. Once the psychologists are in place, there will be no need for the St. Vincent de Paul to do what it has been doing.

What will happen in the meantime?

Acting Chairman

The Minister, without interruption, please.

Within a matter of weeks the number of psychologists will have been increased from 44 to 160. One cannot even hire these people on the market. They are employed elsewhere.

The Minister is talking about the end of the year. I want to know what will happen this year.

The Deputy referred to the imposition of a limit. I did not impose a limit. That is an operational limit that NEPS arranged itself in its operation.

It would not have done so without the Minister's approval.

Acting Chairman

The Minister, without interruption, please.

It is not a limit.

It is a limit.

There is no need for it to be a limit. I obtained the funds and transferred them to NEPS.

The Minister is responsible for NEPS.

If I were doing it myself, I could handle it differently.

Acting Chairman

We must move on.

If one establishes a body to do the job, one gives it the funds—

Pass the buck.

—and it sets a mark. The point—

The Minister is responsible for NEPS.

Can I have a chance to reply?

Acting Chairman

The Minister must conclude.

I must be allowed damage time when I cannot speak.

The Minister must take responsibility.

The Deputy asked a question. If she listened to the reply we might get further. I unfortunately said that where there are cases of disadvantage that are not being dealt with, I want to know about them from NEPS and there is no limit – as far as I am concerned – in dealing with them.

The Minister told me on two occasions that—

The Deputy also got an explanation that is not an absolute limit but she may choose to take it otherwise.

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