Michael Noonan
Question:2 Mr. Noonan asked the Taoiseach if he will report on recent developments in the Northern Ireland peace process; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11388/02]
Ceisteanna – Questions. - Northern Ireland Issues.
Michael Noonan
Question:3 Mr. Noonan asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent contacts with the British Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11389/02]
Michael Noonan
Question:4 Mr. Noonan asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent contacts with the political parties in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11390/02]
Michael Noonan
Question:5 Mr. Noonan asked the Taoiseach when he next expects to meet with the British Prime Minister; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11391/02]
Trevor Sargent
Question:6 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach his views on the latest arms decommissioning move by the IRA; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11500/02]
Ruairí Quinn
Question:7 Mr. Quinn asked the Taoiseach when he next plans to meet the British Prime Minister, Mr. Tony Blair, to discuss the situation in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11531/02]
Ruairí Quinn
Question:8 Mr. Quinn asked the Taoiseach his plans for future meetings with the political parties in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11532/02]
Ruairí Quinn
Question:9 Mr. Quinn asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on the announcement by the IRA on 8 April 2002 that a further act of decommissioning had taken place; the information the Government has received from the international body regarding the decommissioning; and if he has received an indication of further decommissioning. [11533/02]
Ruairí Quinn
Question:10 Mr. Quinn asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on the progress made to date in implementing those sections of the Weston Park agreement for which his Department has responsibility. [11534/02]
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin
Question:11 Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the progress of the peace process since Easter 2002; and his contacts with the British Prime Minister since that date. [11821/02]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 2 to 11, inclusive, together.
April 10 marked the fourth anniversary of the signing of the Good Friday Agreement and, four years on, the Agreement is helping achieve a new beginning and fresh start in Northern Ireland and in relations between all the peoples on these islands. The committed, positive working relationships between the two Governments and all the pro-Agreement parties have helped us manage the difficult issues which have arisen. The recent meeting of the Governments and the pro-Agreement parties in Belfast was a timely opportunity to look at the implementation of the Agreement. It was a welcome reminder of our common purpose and common determination to continue in our work together and an opportunity to reflect on the progress that has been made.
What we achieved four years ago is the framework for fairness and equality needed for a peaceful and stable Northern Ireland and for positive and normal relations between all the peoples of these islands. Partnership Government is now in place in Belfast. The North-South and east-west institutions are functioning effectively. Northern Ireland is being demilitarised. Substantial decommissioning has taken place and the new start to policing is under way. Partnership, equality and mutual respect are being progressively strengthened. With lasting peace and stabilising political institutions, the economic dividend for Northern Ireland will continue to develop and grow. The promise of the Agreement is being fulfilled. There are continuing challenges, but our commitment to the Agreement and our determination to see it fully implemented remain undiminished.
The announcement on 8 April by the Independent International Commission on Decommissioning that the IRA had put a varied and substantial quantity of ammunition, arms and explosive material beyond use represented a further important step in the resolution of the arms issue and I warmly welcomed it. This development provides reassurance that the issue of arms is being, and can be, resolved under the auspices of the commission in a satisfactory way. The goal of putting all paramilitary arms beyond use is achievable, although this will also require loyalist paramilitary groups to engage positively with the commission. I express my sincere gratitude to General John de Chastelain and his colleagues for advancing this indispensable part of the Agreement in a professional, painstaking and productive manner. I know the issue of decommissioning is an extremely difficult one for the republican movement. However, the announcement by the commission is further evidence that they realise it must be pursued if confidence, trust and genuine partnership are to be maintained and strengthened.
It is time for those on all sides who have doubted the benefits of the Agreement to recognise the profoundly important progress that has been made. It should be clear at this stage that the Agreement is not a threat to anybody, but a real opportunity to ensure that Northern Ireland has a future that is good and fair for all. The Agreement is widely recognised not just in Ireland, but in a broader international context, as a creative and progressive model in addressing deep seated political divisions. We have only to witness the turmoil in the Middle East to appreciate the true value of what we have so painstakingly achieved.
As regards implementation of the package of proposals agreed at Weston Park, progress continues to be made across the range of issues, including the operation of the institutions, demilitarisation and policing. The proposal to appoint a judge of international standing to investigate cases of concern is the subject of ongoing contact between both Governments. It is hoped that it will be possible to make an appointment in April, as agreed at Weston Park.
I will meet with the President of Sinn Féin, Mr. Gerry Adams, later today. A meeting of the North-South Ministerial Council is scheduled for early next month. I have no current plans to meet with Prime Minister Blair.
Can the Taoiseach tell the House exactly what the Independent International Commission on Decommissioning reported to him in terms of the circumstances and quantities of arms put beyond use by the Provisional IRA on the last occasion of decommissioning?
The report contained the information that has been circulated. The commission did not give more details but it indicated that it witnessed the event in which the IRA leadership put a varied and substantial quantity of ammunition, arms and explosive material beyond use. That was done in accordance with the Governments' general scheme of regulations. The commission also confirmed that it has made an inventory of the arms concerned, which will be provided at the end of its task and not on an individual basis. The commission also stated that it has agreed to the IRA condition of confidentiality regarding details of the event as provided in the scheme of regulations and that it will continue its discussions with the IRA representative within the International Independent Commission on Decommissioning's scheme, in the pursuit of its remit. The commission stated that it has continued to have discussions with the loyalist paramilitary groups.
Can the Taoiseach put a completion date on decommissioning and indicate if any progress is being made on the decommissioning of loyalist paramilitary weapons?
The second question is easy to answer as no progress whatsoever is being made. There does not seem to be real engagement or evidence of that and I do not see it arising for a considerable time. It is not on the horizon from what I pick up from security sources.
The original date for completion of decommissioning has been extended. The International Independent Commission on Decommissioning does not want to stay an undue length. It is prepared to see it out for a period of time but I know that General de Chastelain has been putting pressure on for some time to move this on to completion, and there are other colleagues involved in that also. While there is no date, there is a determination that this will not drift on into election time in the North next year.
In the course of the various meetings the Taoiseach has had with Mr. Adams, and the meetings that the British Prime Minister has had with Mr. Adams and leaders of the republican movement, has linkage been sought by the leaders of Sinn Féin between further acts of decommissioning and progress with respect to the OTRs – those on the run from prosecutions or being sought by the security authorities and the prosecution processes in both jurisdictions? Are any of the people who have been identified as OTRs by the Sinn Féin republican leadership being sought in this jurisdiction? If so, how many are involved?
There are well in excess of 100 people involved in this.
Is that in total?
Yes, collectively in total. That figure has increased. When everything is taken into account I believe the figure will not be 200, but nearer to that than to 150. That is the information that I have received. Administratively, regarding what is happening now and the various processes of the United Kingdom's policing arrangements, the UK will be able to deal with a large number of those cases and be able to clear a large number – perhaps two thirds – of those cases.
There would be a substantial number, perhaps 50 or 60, that could not be dealt with under that arrangement and that is what is creating difficulty. It might require a new system but there would be great difficulties with a legislative system. We all are aware of the views of parties in the House of Commons on that issue. The idea of legislating for an amnesty does not seem to be favoured. They are looking at other systems and other ways of dealing with those remaining cases but that is not yet finalised. It is not yet clear if it is possible to bring forward a proposal but the British Government is endeavouring to do that.
I do not have information on the number of people who are wanted in this jurisdiction but I could check that. There would not be many because most of these people went from Northern Ireland to foreign jurisdictions and many of them are back now for a considerable time. It is possible that some of them went via this jurisdiction or could have been involved in activities here. I do not have that figure. I am not sure if we have the full list although we would be aware of some names on the list.
Perhaps the Taoiseach inadvertently omitted to answer the question I asked. Has there been any linkage negotiated or put forward by the Sinn Féin leadership in relation to the two issues?
The OTR issue was not part of the Good Friday Agreement. There is not any direct linkage between policing, demilitarisation or the other ongoing issues, but people raise all of these issues in the ongoing discussions to try to complete them. On the OTR issue, the British Government is trying to find a resolution and, although we are on the sidelines on this, we continually raise the issue of the other people, those who—
Vanished.
—vanished from Northern Ireland. We have continued to raise that issue and those people's names are supplied by various organisations. The issues of decommissioning, demilitarisation, policing, the OTRs and those that have vanished are all raised during negotiations as outstanding issues on which progress is sought.
Can I clarify with the Taoiseach that I am correct in interpreting his reply to mean that neither Mr. McGuinness nor Mr. Adams sought to link further progress on decommissioning by the Provisional IRA with progress on the OTRs?
Second, are any of the OTRs being sought by the UK authorities known to be living in this jurisdiction? Are any of the people connected with the murder of Garda Jerry McCabe being sought by the Irish security authorities and, if so, are they included by the republican leadership as being part of the OTRs?
The answer to the Deputy's first question as to whether the Sinn Féin or republican leadership raised the OTR issues in the context of decommissioning is "no". All the items were taken separately and they had not endeavoured to get a linkage. There would be people on the OTR list and some prominent people who had not been able to return to Northern Ireland that would live either permanently or semi-permanently in this jurisdiction but they are not people who are wanted by our authorities. Some of them might have had convictions in the past or had dealings with the authorities but they are not currently wanted; they are Sinn Féin people. From the British position in their administrative checking of the people there is no liaison with our authorities on these people; they are checking cases within their own system. There is always co-operation if there is any uncertainty about individual cases. Most of the people on the list now are people long gone from these islands or people who would be around and prominent enough and who would be seeking to get their position here.
What about those who may be connected with the murder of Detective Garda Gerry McCabe?
No, they are not on that list.
There are a number of separate issues related to the questions asked. The Weston Park agreement of last year gave an undertaking that no later than April of this year an eminent international judge would be appointed to investigate the circumstances in which a number of people were murdered or killed in Northern Ireland and south of the Border. Can the Taoiseach report progress on whether he and the British Prime Minister have identified and agreed on a person of such eminence who would be prepared to serve?
Yes, there has been progress. It is the subject of continuing contact between the two Governments with a view to getting an agreed candidate and getting that person to give the necessary time commitment. At the Weston Park talks, both Governments accepted that certain cases from the past remain a source of grave public concern, particularly those giving rise to serious allegations of collusion by the security forces. We gave a commitment that the investigation of each case would happen no later than April and a senior judge would be appointed if no prosecutions had taken place by then. We also gave a commitment that in the event that a public inquiry is recommended in any case, the relevant Government would implement the recommendations. We will succeed in making that appointment. An individual has been identified and officials representing both Governments will meet that person shortly.
The Good Friday Agreement required us to set up a Human Rights Commission with a remit equivalent to that of the commission established in Northern Ireland. When it was set up here Mr. Justice Donal Barrington was appointed as chairman. Is it fully staffed yet? Does it have a chief executive? How often has it met?
I do not have all the details on it. I understand it is now fully operational and has the required staff. Last autumn it gave a full progress report and I understand everything is going well. It has not been raised with me in the past six to nine months.
The Agreement also said there would be a joint committee of the Human Rights Commission, North and South. Has the joint committee been established? How often has it met? What is it doing? What progress has it made? The Agreement says the objective is "to establish a charter open to signature of all democratic parties, reflecting and endorsing agreed measures for the protection of the fundamental rights of everyone living on the island of Ireland." Has this happened and is progress being made?
I do not know how many meetings have been held, but both human rights groups, North and South, have been exchanging information. They have both been building up their structures and are co-operating. As the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform is responsible for this, I can get a briefing note for the House on it. It is many months since I dealt with this issue and at that time they were communicating, working and exchanging information on cases and case practice of relevance to both North and South. That was the intention and in the absence of this issue being raised with me, I understand that to be the case. However, I will check and send a note to Deputies Noonan and Quinn.
The Good Friday Agreement seems to be working very well in Stormont, with the bedding down of the political institutions and the North-South bodies. What measures are being put in place by both Governments to encourage more inter-community co-operation in Northern Ireland? Some commentators have said that the Agreement is working very well in Stormont but not in the Ardoyne and other areas. What measures are being put in place to encourage more cross-Border contact and co-operation between community groups North and South?
This is a very important aspect of the Agreement and will continue to be so in the future. When this matter is discussed with any of the groups involved we always tend to look at the difficult cases, but I appreciate the amount of community involvement that currently takes place. If one takes the 3,000 marches that will occur during the marching season, which has already commenced, it really comes down to a dozen areas of conflict. Good community relationships are going on and there is understanding between many communities. As the Deputy identified, however, there are a number of difficult flashpoints where the Ireland Fund, INTERREG and a number of charitable and religious groups are all working to build up confidence. The political parties in north Belfast are also working to stabilise the situation following a difficult period, particularly last year. An excellent economic report has been produced and parts of Belfast are working to the future by building up community involvement. The same has happened in Portadown. People from the South have made efforts to assist them and that is much appreciated.
In some of these areas – this is the kernel of Deputy Deenihan's point – there is enormous alienation and exclusion from just about everything. Little progress has been made and we have made that point time and time again to the British Government which is listening and has taken the matter on board. In some of these areas one needs the benefit of the equivalent of the European Social Fund, which has been of benefit to areas here in providing skills training. The fund has provided hope in certain communities and without such a provision young people become involved in paramilitary groups or other criminal activities. More effort is needed to build up confidence in such communities. While I do not wish to take from the efforts of the many people I have met from Northern Ireland who are involved in community work, they have a hard task in trying to build up confidence compared to their counterparts in other countries. Voluntary and statutory organisations, such as FÁS and the chambers of commerce, have put much time and effort into such work, although it is a slow process.
There are still flashpoints such as north Belfast, the Lower Ormeau Road and Portadown but, having said that, I give credit to the hundreds of other areas that are managing to make progress. Some of these difficulties will take years to work out because in some of the areas there is no intercommunal contact. It is still a tactic to go down to the end of the street on a Saturday night to throw stones and rocks. It is still the practice for a small number of people to engage in such agitation. It will take time to build up relationships in those areas because, unfortunately, those types of events are still happening, particularly during the summer.
Under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement, the Government is committed to reviewing the Offences Against the State Acts. Tomorrow, the Government will ask the Dáil to renew certain sections of the 1998 Act, yet we have heard virtually nothing of the review. What can the Taoiseach tell us about the review at this point? What is the current status of the review, which is one of the critical commitments the Government made? The Government also committed itself to establishing a human rights commission. Does the Taoiseach agree it is unacceptable that while the commission in the Six Counties has been up and running for some time, the commission in this jurisdiction has not yet been set up on a working basis? Since the start of this Dáil, I have repeatedly raised the need for stronger Government action on British demilitarisation. While I acknowledge that some progress has been made, does the Taoiseach agree it is intolerable that the situation in the Border areas close to the constituency I represent, particularly the south Armagh area but also south Fermanagh and south Tyrone, are still saturated with bases, spy posts and troops four years on from the Good Friday Agreement?
As I stated earlier, in the context of human rights, the provisions are working in a number of areas in co-operation with our Northern colleagues and I will get an up to date report in that regard. The resources and staff have been allocated. I know the human rights group in the North is also moving in many areas and while they have their own troubles and difficulties they are working hard to make a meaningful impact as outlined in the Good Friday Agreement. In the initial period the groups in the North and South are having a good influence and their work is useful but it will take some years to achieve all that was set out in terms of legislation and specific tasks. There is a settling in process as there are people involved from different persuasions, backgrounds and groupings and, as the Deputy knows, that creates its own difficulties. However, they are working on it.
On demilitarisation, I do not disagree with the Deputy. The more that can happen in that regard, the better and, as the Deputy has acknowledged, there has been considerable progress. I believe the British Government is committed to continuing as rapidly as it can and as the security situation, which has been improving all the time, allows to remove small, medium sized and especially the larger observation posts. I am glad to see that happening and I hope it will proceed as quickly as possible. I acknowledge that in some areas, including south Armagh, there is still a heavy presence. We have pressed very strongly for that situation to be eased, particularly in sensitive areas, because it is counterproductive and we will continue raise that at every opportunity.
In order to get a full answer on the review aspect, the Deputy should put down a question to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. The review is ongoing and it is not our intention to continue to extend the additional powers but at this stage it is still necessary to do so until we are absolutely satisfied that the security situation does not require us to continue renewing those Acts. For a more detailed answer as to what has been happening in the review over the last nine months to a year, the Deputy should put down a question to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform.
I wish to return to the question of the international judge. Paragraphs 18 and 19 of the statement issued on 1 August last year stated that investigations would take place in relation to the following people who were murdered: Chief Superintendent Harry Breen, Superintendent Bob Buchanan, Pat Finucane, Lord Justice and Lady Gibson, Robert Hamill, Rosemary Nelson and Billy Wright. Since, to my knowledge, no prosecutions have been initiated in respect of any of these people, do I understand correctly that the terms of reference have already been agreed, together with the identity of the person concerned – which, presumably, the Taoiseach is not in a position to reveal today? Will it be a collective investigation or a series of investigations? Will they take place simultaneously or will one follow after another? Since presumably prosecutions will not be initiated between now and the end of April, what timetable has the Taoiseach in mind for completion of this process? In some cases there may be a recommendation at the end of the investigation that a public inquiry should take place. Can we anticipate finality on these issues or is it open ended? Can the Taoiseach give any indication of a timetable at this stage in relation to all or any individual cases? With no disrespect to the others, these cases are the cause of greater communal conflict. They involve Robert Hamill, Rosemary Nelson and Billy Wright.
I hope the judge will be in place shortly, that his investigative and other staff will be available to him and that the records will also be available. These tragic cases have a high profile. Many have been strenuously investigated during the years. I hope, therefore, the files will enable the judge to reach conclusions fairly quickly. That is the intention.
Will it be a matter of months?
It will probably take six months. In a number of other cases we cannot prejudge the outcome, although almost everybody does so. I had better not add to that. However, even in the cases mentioned by the Deputy, there is a widely held view as to what happened. Nevertheless, they must be looked at independently. The Deputy rightly said they have created a lot of tension. I would be very surprised if some or all do not lead to the creation of a full tribunal of inquiry. One of them has a high priority, which is not to detract from the importance of the others. It has a high profile, both domestically and internationally. Frustration with the process would quickly become apparent if the families were to take the view that it would become protracted.
Will the cases run in parallel?
Yes. I see no reason why they should not. The judge will not begin his work from scratch. Several of the cases have been the subject of investigations, as aspect on which I do not wish to comment. If one accepts the process in good faith, it will be apparent that there has been a huge amount of work on getting information and building the files on these cases. The public must decide whether the judge's conclusions will finalise matters. However, I would be surprised if he did not quickly conclude that some of the cases will not be resolved by him. That is the generally held view. The process must start soon and must be transparent.
Will the Taoiseach indicate if any progress has been made in getting the British Government to fulfil its commitments on providing information for the inquiry into the Dublin and Monaghan bombings?
The Secretary of State has provided an enormous amount of information which Mr. Justice Barron is now considering. He requires additional information in a small number of areas. I understand he hopes to make a preliminary report in the autumn.
The Taoiseach will have heard the statement by Gerry Adams that Sinn Féin gives complete support to the Defence Forces of the State. Does he have any independent evidence to support this change of policy? If we are to take Mr. Adams at face value, what would the Taoiseach say to the Member of this House who has refused to give such support to the Garda Síochána as it tries to capture those responsible for the atrocity at Omagh?
The Taoiseach will also have heard Mr. Adams comment that there is no organic link between Sinn Féin and the IRA. Will he indicate if he has any information that would support this alleged change of policy and direction and, if so, will he indicate when it occurred?
I do not have any new information on these issues. The leadership of Sinn Féin has been saying for a long period that it is doing its utmost to move to a situation where these issues are put in the past. It has been involved in a number of events in an effort to achieve that but I have no new information.
What about the Omagh case?
I will allow two further brief supplementary questions from Deputy Ó Caoláin and Deputy Brian Hayes.
My question, No. 17, deals with the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. I did not know it was being dealt with under Questions Nos. 1 to 11.
It is a separate question but the issue has been raised.
I put down a question on the Barron inquiry last month but, as a result of a request I received from the Taoiseach's office, I withdrew it because a crucial meeting was due to take place between Justice Barron and a representative of the RUC. Obviously in the Taoiseach's judgment it was not appropriate to refer to the matter on the floor of the House at the time. I withheld my question on the basis that I would receive an outline of the engagement undertaken by Justice Barron, confirmation that it had taken place and an indication of what progress had been made. I received no such information.
What is the position? Has the RUC and the other relevant arms of the British Administration supplied the necessary information to Justice Barron? Is this inquiry still being stifled by non-co-operation from the British Administration?
The Taoiseach is aware that the unanimous view of the Committee on Foreign Affairs is to request a meeting between the committee and Mr. Adams and his associates. In his meeting with Mr. Adams later today, will the Taoiseach raise this issue and strongly advise Mr. Adams to come before the Irish people by way of meeting this all-party committee? Will he also strongly advise Mr. Adams to make himself available before a committee of the US Congress? What is the Taoiseach's view with regard to whether Mr. Adams and his associates should come before this committee to explain their links, if any, with armed organisations in Colombia?
I understand Justice Barron received an enormous amount of information, data and files, although I do not know if that will resolve many of the issues. He certainly received the information he sought and many of the records. From that he has highlighted areas where there are gaps and where he wants further information. However, he is receiving co-operation and there are direct lines of assistance available to him now, which were not there previously. That has allowed Justice Barron to proceed quickly so that he can bring an interim report to the House after the summer.
I will make Mr. Adams aware of Deputy Hayes's comments. I have also heard what other members of the Committee on Foreign Affairs have said on the matter. These issues are the subject of congressional hearings in the US next week. That committee is in a position, due to having more reports, data and information, to make progress on these issues. Our committee is entitled to ask Mr. Adams to come before it but I assume the invitation is linked to the fact that the congressional hearings are starting. I expect this matter will be judged by the Oireachtas committee on the basis of what happens at those hearings.