Bernard J. Durkan
Question:83 Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism the position in regard to the building or adaptation of national stadia; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19069/02]
Other Questions. - National Sports Stadium.
Róisín Shortall
Question:90 Ms Shortall asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism the total projected cost of all elements of the Campus and Stadium Ireland development according to the latest figures to hand; the breakdown of all costs incurred to date; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19075/02]
Joe Higgins
Question:108 Mr. J. Higgins asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism if he will make a statement on Stadium Campus Ireland; and the details of all moneys expended to date on this project. [17126/02]
Bernard Allen
Question:114 Mr. Allen asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism the Government's proposals to provide a new stadium for soccer and rugby here; the response there has been from the private sector for the proposals to provide a stadium; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [17127/02]
Richard Bruton
Question:118 Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism the reasons the Government abandoned Stadium Campus Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [17128/02]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 83, 90, 108, 114 and 118 together.
I refer the Deputies to my earlier response to priority questions on this subject. Although the agreed programme contains a commitment to develop a world-class national stadium, the Government decided last month that in current economic circumstances it was not in a position to provide any Exchequer funding, in the medium term, for a national stadium. Accordingly, the Government decided that the feasibility of providing a national stadium at Abbotstown with private sector funding should be explored.
While the receipt of 23 separate expressions of interest is a gratifying response, it is far too early to speculate on whether they will provide a robust basis for going forward with the project. They must now be evaluated by an inter-agency group comprising my Department, the Department of Finance, the Office of Public Works, the National Treasury Management Agency, Campus and Stadium Ireland Development Limited and the Attorney General's office. I will report to the Government on the outcome of this evaluation following which it will be decided whether to proceed further with this initiative.
Exchequer expenditure totalling €66 million has been incurred on Campus Stadium Ireland, over the three years 2000, 2001 and 2002 to date. Of this amount, a sum of €55.6 million relates directly to the construction of the aquatic and leisure centre; €7.7 million relates to administrative and ongoing running costs of the company, including executive services, project management, consultancy costs and VAT payments, most of which is related to the aquatic and leisure centre. The balance of €2.8 million relates to planning, site survey work and general preparation and development of the entire campus site.
Given the projected costs envisaged previously and the fact that the original proposal is not now going ahead and that private enterprise will take up the slack, to what extent has an evaluation or assessment of costs been undertaken? Will the Minister indicate the cost factors involved and whether the same people from the private sector are likely to make donations towards the overall cost?
As I said, there have been no discussions with Mr. McManus in that regard. However, his offer was predicated on the Exchequer being utilised for the building of the stadium. Any estimate of the cost of building a stadium at Abbotstown will depend on its size, standard, specifications and location. The most recent estimates range between €307 million and €632 million, including on-site infractructural costs and provision for VAT, fees, contingency inflation and so on, depending on the size and standard required. I am anxious to place as much information as possible in regard to the project in the public domain in order that everyone can have an interest in what is happening and access information if they wish.
In regard to Deputy Lynch's question on disappointment with the GAA, there will be general disappointment if the stadium does not go ahead and we do not host the European Championships in 2008 because the games are of considerable importance. The estimated revenue generated as a result of holding them would be of the order of €50 million, with a projected figure of 90,000 visitors to see the games. In addition, it is the third largest sports event in the world. There would, therefore, be access to a television audience in the region of 7 billion. That is the type of advertising one simply could not purchase.
The GAA was written to in regard to whether it would make Croke Park available for the purposes of the European Championships. The Taoiseach wrote to it and there will be a meeting tomorrow between it and the Government.
Did the Minister ask the IRFU and the FAI to rethink about refurbishing Lansdowne Road in view of the fact that it is in a city centre location and would be favoured, by and large, by the rugby and soccer fraternity as the best location? I understand that if it was turned around 90 degrees, one could have a stadium which would cater for approximately 55,000 or 60,000 spectators. In the event of the IRFU and the FAI favouring such a development, would the Minister be in favour of providing funding to establish such a stadium?
First, I thank Deputies Deenihan and Lynch and others on the Opposition side for their positive attitude towards the idea of the construction of a national stadium. As I said, I had discussions with the FAI and the IRFU. They are interested as I am in seeing whether the private option can be pursued successfully. If it cannot, then Deputy Deenihan is correct. The alternative would be to enter into discussions again with the IRFU and the FAI on the possibility of their being in a position to progress the construction or refurbishment of a stadium. However, that is for another day. At this point we are just looking at the situation with regard to the private sector and assessing and evaluating the expressions of interest received. We must try to reach a mature, reasoned and considered opinion as to whether the project can go ahead. I have no intention of delaying a decision for a number of years. If it is on, I will say so. Equally, if it is not, I will say so.
In relation to the proposals now on the table from various consortia, is the Government keeping an open mind as to whether they will be fully financed by private sector money or whether the Government will go down the road of public-private partnerships. In that context, is there a danger that the long-term cost to the State could be far greater than originally envisaged? Second, does the Minister agree that the immediate need for a medium-sized stadium has become quite apparent from the doubt which has arisen over the holding of the centre-piece of the domestic soccer season, the FAI Cup Final next Sunday, due to drainage problems at Tolka Park? Does he agree that such events emphasise the need for a sports infrastructure to cater for events of a specific size, rather than the original proposal for a stadium of 70,000 capacity?
The question of Exchequer funding for the construction of a stadium has been totally ruled out. The only State involvement being considered is in relation to the possible provision of a site at Abbotstown and even that has not yet been agreed. Negotiations have to be entered into, if we are to go ahead with the project, to see how it can be best progressed. However, as I have been at pains to stress, this cannot be done at taxpayers' expense. We cannot have a situation where a private sector company or companies make a killing at the taxpayers' expense. Any deal which emerges has to be a straight one which represents value for money. That is crucially important. We will make certain of this. To that extent, there would be some involvement by the State, but any idea of Exchequer funding for a national stadium is now out of the question.
How does the Minister propose to assess the potential of the various proposals submitted to him? Does he intend that his own office will carry out that assessment or will expert opinion be called in? To what extent, in the course of that assessment, will he have ongoing discussions with the GAA, the FAI and the IRFU?
It is proposed that the expressions of interest will be evaluated by a panel comprised of officials from my Department, the Office of Public Works, the Department of Finance, the National Treasury Management Agency, the Office of the Attorney General and Campus Stadium Ireland. I will be in contact on an ongoing basis with the panel which will report back to me. I am confident there is sufficient expertise in the group to make the necessary evaluation and assessment. With regard to ongoing consultations with the FAI, the GAA and the IRFU, the answer is most definitely, "Yes". Since my appointment, I have been in constant contact with all three organisations on this and other matters. It is very important that they are kept informed. In the course of advertising for expressions of interest, we indicated that people were welcome to approach the sports organisations to discuss their requirements with a view to accommodating them. Some of those in the private sector who expressed an interest in the construction of a stadium did just that.
Does the Minister accept that the stadium as originally planned was far too big and that what we need is a stadium of smaller capacity? Does he also accept that to take a donation from a person whom I will not name – although he has been named three times already today – and who resides outside the State for tax purposes would be an outrage? I refer to a person who simply flits in and out of Ireland to be seen on the arm of the Taoiseach at Galway races or at the Curragh, parading around the ring like a prize racehorse.
The Deputy should ask her question.
Does the Minister agree that it would be an outrage and an insult to taxpayers for the Government to take money from such a person?
It is not permissible to make an allegation against a person outside the House.
Is the bidding process still open, following the receipt of 23 expressions of interest, or is it now closed? Having regard to the advertisement in the Official Journal of the European Communities, is it possible that others may still apply? The Minister said that if private investors build the stadium, they will not do so at the expense of Irish taxpayers. Does he agree that the profit motive is the primary interest of any such builder? Will there be any guarantee of a ceiling on the rates charged to the FAI and the IRFU to ensure prohibitive charges are not applied, leaving those organisations in a worse position?
The construction of an 80,000 seater stadium was mooted originally and was subsequently scaled back to a 65,000 seater stadium, the size I would favour as being adequate. Above the 65,000 level, the escalation in cost is very substantial. With regard to the benefactor to whom reference was made, the Government is grateful for the generous offer of £50 million—
It would be better if he paid his taxes.
—and it would be very ungracious not to acknowledge this. It would also be remiss of me not to acknowledge the same gentleman's contribution to—
Fianna Fáil?
No. I refer, for example, to his contribution to the racing industry in Ireland, among other matters. However, I do not wish to discuss individuals in the House, other than what I have just indicated.
With regard to the stadium project, once there is a decision – if there is one – to go to tender, we will have to re-advertise, including in the Official Journal of the European Communities. At that point it would be open to any other companies to enter, not just those which expressed an interest. It is clear that nobody in the private sector will build a stadium unless he or she thinks he or she will make a profit. This does not necessarily mean that there must be a killing at the taxpayers' expense. When a deal is made, it is to the best advantage of both sides. That is what we will seek to do if the project goes ahead as suggested. It is possible that it will not proceed in this way. It may be declared not to be feasible. If that happens, I will inform the House.