Tony Gregory
Question:1 Mr. Gregory asked the Taoiseach if the Cabinet committee on social inclusion and drugs has been re-established since the general election; and, if so, when it last met. [15486/02]
Ceisteanna – Questions. - Cabinet Committees.
Ruairí Quinn
Question:2 Mr. Quinn asked the Taoiseach the Cabinet sub-committees currently operating under the auspices of his Department; when each last met; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [16388/02]
Denis Naughten
Question:3 Mr. Naughten asked the Taoiseach the number of meetings of the Cabinet sub-committee on infrastructure held since the general election; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [16414/02]
Joe Higgins
Question:4 Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on social inclusion and drugs last met; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [17120/02]
Trevor Sargent
Question:5 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if the Cabinet committee on social inclusion and drugs has been re-established since the general election and, if so, when it last met; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [18117/02]
Enda Kenny
Question:6 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach the Cabinet committees which have been established since the general election; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [18656/02]
Denis Naughten
Question:7 Mr. Naughten asked the Taoiseach the membership of the Cabinet committee on the information society and the number of meetings held since May 2002; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [18986/02]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 7, inclusive, together.
As I have outlined to the House on a number of occasions in the past, Cabinet committees are an integral part of the Cabinet process. For that reason, while the Government is of course answerable for decisions arising from the work of Cabinet committees, questions as to the conduct of business at Cabinet or Cabinet committee meetings have never been allowed in the House. Among the reasons for this approach is the need to avoid infringing the constitutional protection of Cabinet confidentiality.
The following are the Cabinet committees established by the Government: social inclusion, drugs and rural development; housing, infrastructure and public-private partnerships; children; health strategy; European affairs; and the information society.
In relation to when they last met, the committee on social inclusion, drugs and rural development last met on 8 October. The committee on housing, infrastructure and public-private partnerships met on 26 June and again yesterday. The committee on children last met on 11 September. The committee on European affairs last met on 11 September and will meet again later today. The committee on the information society met on 16 October and arrangements are being made for a meeting of the committee on the health strategy.
I chair the above committees with the exception of the committees on the health strategy and the information society. The membership of the Cabinet committee on the information society, in addition to myself and the Minister of State, Deputy Hanafin, is as follows: the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment and the Ministers for Finance; Communications, Marine and Natural Resources; Education and Science; Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs; Social and Family Affairs; the Environment and Local Government; Health and Children; and Justice, Equality and Law Reform.
My question related to the Cabinet committee with responsibility for drugs. What is the Taoiseach's response to the widespread availability of cocaine, which is a new element in the drugs crisis?
I am afraid we are going outside the question the Deputy asked, which is a specific statistical question. There is a long-standing precedent that questions related to the Cabinet—
I have been asking questions similar to this since the Cabinet committee was set up some years ago and I have always been—
On a point of order, the Chair's office ruled out of order a question from me on this matter today. I cannot pursue the matter and it would be unfair to allow others to pursue it, in fairness to me.
There is a long-standing precedent that issues before the Cabinet or committees of the Cabinet are not discussed in the House. Deputy Gregory's question merely asked if the Cabinet committee on social inclusion and drugs was re-established since the general election and if so, when it last met. That was the question.
I accept that.
The content of what takes place at Cabinet or in Cabinet committees is not appropriate at Question Time for the Taoiseach. That is a long-standing precedent.
On a point of information, this happens every time these Cabinet committees are discussed. Regarding Deputy Gregory's questions, which he puts down in the normal way, the Minister, Deputy Ó Cuív will be answering questions on this issue after me. It is not about the Cabinet committee but refers to the general work being done.
I do not wish to be obstructive but the Chair has referred to precedent in the House. The precedent in relation to questions about the Cabinet committee on social inclusion and drugs has always been that the Minister with direct responsibility takes those questions at this time. The Chair can check the precedent. I have been asking questions on this issue since that committee was set up. This is a complete change—
It has always been the order of the House that it is not appropriate to ask questions related to what is discussed at Cabinet or in committees of the Cabinet. The Deputy's question is specific in what it asks the Taoiseach. It is a statistical question. There is no room to have a debate on what is discussed at the Cabinet committee. As the Taoiseach said, the question the Deputy is raising now is an issue for another Minister.
The Taoiseach chairs the committee. He is in charge of policy in the area of drugs and there is a major new drugs problem out there.
I accept that.
There is lack of action on the heroin problem—
The Deputy should submit a question on the particular issue he wishes to raise.
I cannot raise it with the chairman of the committee?
You are absolutely correct, Deputy.
That surely adds to the irrelevance of the House.
The Deputy's question is specific and demands a statistical answer. We cannot debate the substance of what goes on at the committee.
On a point of order, the Taoiseach indicated that he was at liberty to speak about the decisions after they were taken by the committee and that while he was not at liberty to discuss the agenda of the committees he would discuss the decisions taken. In that sense Deputies Gregory and O'Dowd would have the right to cross-examine.
Decisions of the Cabinet—
I brought this to the Chair's attention this morning.
That is correct.
I agree with Deputy Gregory this is a very important issue and I would love to discuss it but if I am ruled out of order—
There are ways to discuss this, by way of submitting a question to the appropriate Minister.
I did so. I submitted a question to the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs and the ruling declaring it out of order was signed by the Chair today.
On the general question of drug abuse, it would not be ruled out of order—
With respect, it was.
—unless it referred specifically to what was discussed at Cabinet.
It is important that the Taoiseach allows a discussion here.
It has been a long-standing rule of successive Governments since the foundation of the State that we do not discuss Cabinet business in the House.
How do we find out about the committee's deliberations?
The Deputy should submit a question to the appropriate Minister.
It was ruled out of order today.
This came up many times in the last Dáil, as Deputy Gregory knows. I have never answered a question from the Deputy on the committee on social inclusion – he always put it down to the relevant Minister.
The Minister is always there with the Taoiseach.
Deputy Quinn tabled a question today for the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs regarding the progress to date with implementation of the national drugs strategy, which was launched on 10 May, and extending drugs task forces and area-based partnerships. That question will be answered today and there is no difficulty with such questions. However, the Cabinet committee I chair is linked to the Cabinet process and when that is raised in a question I cannot answer. Last week we had a long debate on infrastructure, but if a question is asked in this way I cannot answer it whereas if a question is asked about infrastructure I can answer it.
These issues are relevant to a line Minister and I cannot answer them, while if they come up under other areas I can. This issue has come up several times and there is a long precedent for it. Regarding Deputy Gregory's point, I have never answered questions on this. Questions dealing with the issues covered by Cabinet committee have to be put to line Ministers, while I can answer questions on general policy issues under other social partnership matters. That has been the position from the start.
On this issue—
We are not having a debate on this matter. The Chair has ruled on it.
It is important to refer to the precedents of the Dáil. The precedent is clearly established that the Minister of State takes questions on the Cabinet sub-committee and issues related to social inclusion. There have been very valuable exchanges in the Dáil, with Deputy Gregory often leading me and others on that issue.
There is no reason there should not be, on the issue raised by Deputy Gregory with the appropriate Minister. The Chair has to take cognisance of the constitutional position. We are talking about Cabinet and Cabinet committees.
We are talking about the results of their deliberations.
In order to be helpful to Deputy Higgins, I will explain that previously the Minister of State took them during Taoiseach's question time. The Minister of State is now a Minister in a different Department. The Minister of State with responsibility for this issue is taking questions today and that is Deputy Noel Ahern.
In the sense that—
Deputy Higgins, the Chair has ruled.
In respect of the other committees identified by the Taoiseach, particularly the committee on infrastructure and public private partnerships, besides members of the Cabinet and possibly civil servants, do other people attend those Cabinet sub-committees?
Presentations are made by outside groups at times. The NRA attend a few times a year. There have been meetings in the past with the CIF and other groups, but not this year. It tends to be a separate process where officials and the agencies are invited in.
Will the Taoiseach and the Chair reflect on the Taoiseach's response. In effect, elected Members of this House – and I am not disputing the Chair's interpretation of precedent – are barred from inquiring about decisions or the flow of decisions from Cabinet and yet we learn now that private lobby groups are able to attend such meetings and make presentations. I will not be contentious about the matter but it seems to be a very rigid interpretation. We do not dispute the issue of Cabinet confidentiality, but there must be a greater degree of flexibility from the Chair in the interpretation of that rule. We hear that private individuals can attend and make presentations for public private partnerships and presumably tell the world and his wife and Joe Duffy what was involved and yet we cannot ask questions in the House.
The Chair has ruled.
Before I ask the Taoiseach a question I would like a reply to Questions Nos. 3 and 7, to which the Taoiseach has failed to respond. Out of courtesy and subject to the Chair's ruling, I should at least be given a reply to both questions.
The Deputy should listen to the answers.
The Minister should read the blacks.
The Deputy should read the answer.
In reply to Question No. 3, there have been two meetings, one on 26 June and the other was held yesterday. In reply to Question No. 7, the membership of the Cabinet sub-committee on the information society consists of myself, the Minister of State, Deputy Hanafin, the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, the Minister for Finance, the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, the Minister for Education and Science, the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, the Minister for Social and Family Affairs, the Minister for the Environment and Local Government, the Minister for Health and Children, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform.
How many times has the information society sub-committee met? Has a presentation been given by the board of the National Pension Reserve Fund to the sub-committee on infrastructure? Why is the Minister for Transport, Deputy Brennan, not a member of the committee on the information society in light of the fact that he as Minister has ownership of the biggest fibre-optic infrastructure in the State?
The committee on the information society met on 16 October. The committee usually meets every quarter. There is a large number of Ministers on that committee. The reports of the committee are sent to Cabinet. There was no request for any further Ministers to be given a place on the committee. The Ministers are consulted if any issue relevant to their brief arises.
How many times will the Cabinet sub-committee on social inclusion and drugs meet between now and the end of the year? Will it deal with the alarming new phenomenon of people presenting at treatment centres with cocaine addiction?
The committee on social inclusion, drugs and rural development, meets monthly except during the summer recess. Those issues have been addressed and the relevant Minister will answer those questions.
My question relates to the committee on social inclusion and drugs. Do I assume that there are experts in the areas of justice and health among the members of the committee? Are there financial experts, given the cost to the country of the problems associated with alcohol and drugs? The cost of alcohol mis-use is about €2.2 billion whereas excise duty amounts to only €1.6 billion.
The Deputy must ask a relevant question. I ruled Deputy Gregory out and I must do the same to you.
Has the committee the expertise to deal with the problem? Is the Taoiseach examining the situation in countries such as Sweden, Russia, France, and the United States, where regulations governing alcohol are becoming more stringent while we are going the opposite way? Ireland is way out of line internationally.
The Minister for Finance is a member of that committee and the financial expertise is available through him. There are other experts available to the committee.
Arising from the recent ratification of the Nice treaty by the electorate, and in view of the fact that the convention will present its draft shortly and that will go to the next intergovernmental conference out of which will come a further treaty to be ratified by the people, is it intended to re-establish the Cabinet committee on European affairs or does the Taoiseach intend that the committee on European affairs will be able to keep the agenda on Europe going at a much higher level, including the facility extended to MEPs to address the Houses of the Oireachtas on European matters? As there is now widespread confusion about what can be delivered in the national development programme, is it intended that the Cabinet sub-committee on infrastructure will carry out a revised estimate and analysis of what can be delivered within available resources as we do not know what the budget deficit will be for next year?
I answered the second question last week. The first question is very relevant. The Cabinet committee on European affairs continues to meet monthly. It deals with European business and the European Council. It has spent a great deal of time dealing with the convention. It will also be necessary for the committee of the House to deal with that issue from now on. Mr. Valéry Giscard d'Estaing will produce the draft papers next week. The Members of this House who are members of the convention will report to that committee. There will be an enormous amount of work for both committees.
In other parliaments and administrations, there is a sizeable number of people engaged in this work and we must now turn our minds to it.
Does the Taoiseach accept that early intervention in disadvantaged areas must be part of any strategy to do something practical in regard to the drugs crisis? If the Cabinet sub-committee—
I am afraid the Deputy is going outside the realm of the question.
A Cheann Comhairle, I will stay within the realm of the question.
I have already ruled Deputy Gregory out of order.
Does the Cabinet sub-committee accept this view? Will the Taoiseach request the Cabinet sub-committee on social inclusion to move quickly to change the legislation on the Criminal Assets Bureau so that the €40 million can go to disadvantaged areas?
Deputy, we cannot have a discussion on the sub-committee. It is out of order on Taoiseach's questions.
On the attendance of experts, will the Cabinet sub-committee on social inclusion and drugs meet the experts on the drugs problem, namely the people who are suffering at the coalface of the heroin, cocaine and even crack cocaine crisis which is erupting in the Taoiseach's constituency? Will it meet people from those communities to hear the reality of these problems and, I hope, to give responses to them?
I suggest the Deputy submit a question.
Did the Taoiseach say that the health strategy committee of the Cabinet, of which he is the chairman, has not met since the general election? Is it not the case that the Government is going to eliminate hospital waiting lists in 24 months? The first six months have gone by without the Cabinet committee meeting to discuss the issues. Does this indicate that the national health strategy, which was published about 12 months ago, has in effect been abandoned by the Government?
The first question is in order.
In the year up to and since the health strategy, the full Cabinet has dealt with the health issue; it has not gone to the committee.
The reason is that no money has been set aside to fund it.
More than €1 billion extra has been allocated this year.
Will the Taoiseach consider appointing the Minister for Transport, Deputy Brennan, to the Cabinet committee on the information society in light of the fact he has ownership of the largest State fibre optic cable in the country, which has been laid along our railway lines and which is lying idle, and that the road construction programme makes no provision for fibre optic cable? Has the National Pension Reserve Fund board made a presentation to the Cabinet committee on infrastructure? In light of the €6.8 billion deficit in respect of the NDP road construction programme, does the Taoiseach believe it is satisfactory that the Cabinet committee on infrastructure has only met twice?
The Minister for Transport, Deputy Brennan, is free to attend any of the meetings of relevance to him. If that issue was before the committee, he could attend. There is nothing barring any Minister from attending the committee meetings. The pensions group has not been in front of the committee on infrastructure. Any contact it has had has been with the Department of Finance.
I was shocked to hear that the Cabinet committee on health has not met. Does the Taoiseach believe it should meet as a matter of urgency to discuss waiting lists and especially the closure of Monaghan General Hospital and the effect on the health of people in my area?
Deputy, you are being repetitive.
The Taoiseach has met every publican and every—
You are moving outside the realm of the seven questions on the Order Paper.
It is extremely important. It is vital that the Taoiseach notices the people in my constituency.
You are being repetitive, Deputy, in regard to the question.
I am not being repetitive enough.
There is nothing like having a broad national view.