Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 4 Dec 2002

Vol. 558 No. 5

Leaders' Questions.

Mr. Kenny

I wish to raise a matter that affects the responsibilities of every Member of the House because we can all to some extent share in the blame for the death of a mother of six young children. Susan Maher, God rest her soul, was killed last Monday while travelling home to Kilkenny. I extend my sympathies to her family.

Susan Maher rose every morning at 4.30 to drive to Dublin, returning home at 9.30 p.m. She had to do so because of the lack of speech therapy facilities for her child. The failure to deliver such a service shames us all. The Minister for Finance is today in a position to do something about this. Last year the former Minister for Education and Science waved a blank cheque, yet health boards are refusing to hire private therapists. It means that parents of children like Bobby Maher are being forced to drive huge distances to have their rights vindicated and to avail of facilities. In the context of the Constitution, under which we all operate, this failure diminishes the responsibility and the capacity of the House to do its job.

The budget is to be announced today and the Government is in a position to narrow the gap between the "haves" and the "have nots". In view of this, I ask the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance to ensure that an attempt is made to vindicate these rights and to provide the necessary facilities to those concerned.

The Taoiseach

I join Deputy Kenny in extending our sympathy to the family and extended family in Kilkenny of Susan Maher following her tragic death. It took several hours to cut her son Bobby from the wreckage of the car after it went into a drain late at night on a dark road in Kilkenny. We all hope he will recover.

I understand from reports that Susan Maher left home between 4.30 a.m. and 5 a.m. to drive to Dublin. In addition to looking after her other children she was anxious that Bobby would be able to avail of speech therapy. She was killed near home on a road she knew well. After a long day it is suggested that she fell asleep at the wheel. That is understandable for a woman who pushed herself to the limit. I understand she was travelling to a party of one of her children and was then to have collected her husband. All in the House extend our sympathy to her family.

The shortage of paramedical staff is not confined to the Carlow-Kilkenny region. Many people throughout the country drive long distances on a daily basis to the national service centres in Dublin, Cork and Galway. It is a hard task and it is why, over the past five years, we have provided big increases in funding to hospitals and services throughout the country. Many hospitals are under construction.

Earlier this year the former Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Woods, and the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Martin, announced the provision of extra therapy training places for students in Cork, Galway and Limerick to tackle what has been an acute shortage of speech and occupational therapists and physiotherapists. The Estimates for this year provide more than €650 million extra for health services, but unfortunately, in this case a speech and language therapy service was not available.

The Government has identified the shortages and has created additional places in the colleges in an attempt to provide more services on a regional basis. I hope those students attending courses in speech and language therapy at University College Cork, the National University of Ireland Galway and the University of Limerick will improve the services available. That does not detract from the tragic death of Susan Maher.

Mr. Kenny

This tragedy highlights and underlines the difficulty to which the Taoiseach alluded. Prior to June of this year, 75 places were promised to start in September. Twenty five of those places were between UCC and NUI, Galway, and 50 postgraduate places for speech therapy and special language teachers in the University of Limerick. These courses have not yet commenced and this makes a mockery of Government commitments. Arising from the tragic and unfortunate case of Susan Maher, will the Taoiseach and, in particular, the Minister for Education and Science, give an assurance that this commitment will be honoured and that these places will be available as soon as possible? In so far as is attainable will the Minister for Finance, even at this late hour, adjust his statement to make some effort to deal with the rights of parents of disabled children and those with special needs? These difficulties are of grievous concern to parents. Yesterday was the international day of the disabled and I ask the Taoiseach to recognise that and the difficulties faced by parents.

The Taoiseach

The shortage of speech and language therapy services has been a difficulty for some time. The Mater Hospital is my local hospital and until recently there was only one speech therapist for its enormous catchment area. That situation has changed because the health boards and the Department of Health and Chil dren have been involved in a number of recruitment initiatives including sponsorship of an overseas recruitment policy. For the past five years overseas recruitment has been filling these posts.

Deputy Kenny is correct. Our initiative introduced earlier this year doubled the number of therapy places available. It was expected that the intake for language therapy studies would have commenced in September or October at the start of the academic year. For whatever reason and it was not because of a lack of resources, that did not happen. I do not wish to participate in a blame game but it has not proved possible and it is now expected that the courses in Cork, Galway and Limerick will start in the academic year of 2003-04. My information is that the Galway and Cork courses will commence then and the Limerick course may have already started. This area has been recognised by the Government, the resources are available and we have put an action plan in place. There will be more students and we have also recruited significant numbers from abroad.

Mr. Rabbitte

Will the Taoiseach explain the emergence yesterday of a list of 400 primary schools that are awaiting refurbishment which have been put on the back burner as a result of the Government cuts? Does the Taoiseach recall that last April a list was published after considerable pressure and controversy in the House about the run-down condition of many schools? The list was published on the website of the Department of Education and Science. The impression that these schools would be dealt with was added to by the hawking around constituencies by Government candidates, Fianna Fáil Deputies and Ministers on many occasions, of letters which promised that local schools were on the list and that it would be all right on the night. Several Ministers were quoted as saying that the cheque was in the post. Now it emerges that there is no truth in this, that only a small number of schools have been progressed, that several schools on the INTO black list are not being attended to—

An Ceann Comhairle

A question, please, Deputy Rabbitte.

Mr. Rabbitte

Is it not the case that several schools that are deemed unfit by the teachers' unions are not on the list? Is this not a blatant departure by the Government from the impression given inside and outside this House? Schools, some deemed unsafe by the Health and Safety Authority, which are run down and generally neglected for years, were used as a blatant political issue. In my constituency, Fianna Fáil party candidates put letters into every house saying that X and Y schools had been approved. It was a lie because they were not approved but that was the impression given.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy's two minutes are concluded.

Mr. Rabbitte

How does the Taoiseach reconcile the publication yesterday of the list with the promises made prior to the general election?

The Taoiseach

The Minister for Education and Science has made clear that the list of the 3,300 primary schools in the country which are at architectural, planning or construction stage will be published early in the new year and will be updated to show the position.

It must have slipped Deputy Rabbitte's mind to acknowledge what has been done in the past five years. He will recall that in 1996—

Mr. Stagg

1998.

The Taoiseach

—when he had an opportunity to influence these matters, we were spending—

Mr. Stagg

Last May the Government was promising.

An Ceann Comhairle

Please allow the Taoiseach to speak without interruption.

Mr. Stagg

The Government was telling lies last May.

The Taoiseach

I will get to May.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is Leaders' Questions, Deputy Stagg. Only Deputy Rabbitte is entitled to ask a supplementary question. Deputy Stagg, the Chair is on its feet. The Deputy will withdraw the word "lie".

Mr. Stagg

Withdrawn. It was untrue, deliberate.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is the same thing, Deputy.

Mr. Stagg

You can throw me out, a Cheann Comhairle.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy will withdraw the phrase "deliberate untruth" unequivocally.

Mr. Stagg

Withdrawn. I am asking you for a—

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy withdrew the word "lie". "Deliberate untruth" is the same thing. The Deputy should withdraw that phrase. It has been withdrawn.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

What were they? They were election promises.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy O'Keeffe, this is Leaders' Questions. Only Deputy Rabbitte has any authority when called by the Chair to ask a supplementary question.

Mr. Hogan

The Deputy should support his leader.

Mr. Rabbitte

They say that is more appropriate to Deputy Hogan.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach to continue without interruption.

The Taoiseach

I was just about to remind Deputies and Deputy Stagg that a few years ago we were only spending £38 million on this matter—

Mr. Howlin

Was that in 1937?

The Taoiseach

No. It was 1996 and 1997 when the Deputy was in Cabinet and he had influence.

Ms Lynch

What was the price of a house then?

An Ceann Comhairle

Allow the Taoiseach to speak without interruption.

The Taoiseach

Now in every year we are spending €173 million. An enormous amount of schools have been sanctioned. There have been 1,700 grants for smaller projects sanctioned this year and there have been hundreds for larger projects. Each primary school also gets capital grants and architectural planning has continued in the case of about 400 schools every year. The black list that was there a few years ago has been fairly well eliminated and every project has been dealt with.

Mr. Howlin

All the hopes dashed.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

Last May.

The Taoiseach

So much for the last election. I understand that what was happening then, particularly in Kildare, was that Deputy Stagg and other Opposition Deputies were going around trying to say that it was not really Government Deputies who had produced all these schools, that they had some part in them.

Mr. Stagg

The Government can have credit for the one in Kilcock.

The Taoiseach

The reality is that we have finished hundreds of schools and we will continue to do so. The expenditure will continue to be high for the next number of years.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Rabbitte has one minute.

Mr. Rabbitte

You are helpful as ever, a Cheann Comhairle. Sometimes I understand why comedy runs in the family.

Is it not the case that there is blatant queue-jumping going on? The Minister, Deputy Dempsey, is quoted in The Irish Times yesterday as saying some of the schools are on the list only as a result of political pressure. Why is there not a plan for the renovation of primary schools? Why can a school principal or a board of management not find out when they will be on the list if they are not on it this year, as they manifestly are not? Why is there not a five year plan to refurbish primary schools some of which are in poor condition while others are advantaged because there is a Minister in the constituency? I see the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform is laughing again this morning. This is the first Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform who has put the Belvedere boys off the streets. It is not safe to go on to the streets to collect money because of conditions on the streets.

Mr. McDowell

Fergus Finlay's one liners are great but the Deputy is better off when he uses his own.

Mr. Rabbitte

Will the Taoiseach address the issue as to whether there will be a plan and whether it will be made public and available to boards of management and school principals?

The Taoiseach

Serious efforts are being made to try to deal with the problem. The Minister, Deputy Dempsey, is setting out a five year plan, which fully complies with what Deputy Rabbitte asked, where all projects at all levels and at whatever stage will be set out in detail on the Department's website. People will be able to see exactly at what stage a project is and then perhaps Deputies will stop raising the issue on the Adjournment and tabling parliamentary questions because it will be clear.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

Allow the Taoiseach to speak.

The Taoiseach

By pressing the issue, Deputies opposite are doing exactly what their leader is trying to prevent. He is calling for an end to political queue jumping and I agree with him. Projects should be listed and dealt with on the basis of priority.

Ms Lynch

You are the Taoiseach, you could stop it.

The Taoiseach

That is what the Minister, Deputy Dempsey, is trying to do. It will mean Deputies opposite will have to stop saying they convinced the Minister to do something and stop circulating his replies. That is what they have been doing for the past five years. We have spent €175 million and Deputies opposite have been trying to claim the credit for it but they spent nothing when in Government. Let us be honest, that is what they are upset about.

Mr. Sargent

On this, budget day, when there will be much talk of prudent management of resources, does the Taoiseach agree the biggest potential for generating wealth in terms of food and power, both wind and wave power, is the marine environment? In that regard and in light of the heart-rending photographs of death and despair in Galicia, has the Taoiseach had time to reflect on the potential for catastrophe if one of the many substandard bulk oil or chemical carriers, like the Prestige, were to break up off the Irish coast? Does he agree the Government is playing fast and loose with maritime safety as highlighted in a report in today's newspapers exposing our failure to inspect even the required 25% of non-Irish registered ships coming into Irish ports? Will the Taoiseach express a view on whether the Irish Government should be before the European Court of Justice on this matter, as is the case?

Does the Taoiseach agree it is criminally negligent of the Government to fail to implement its own report, the emergency towing vessels study of 1999, which has some basic recommendations such as the purchase of ocean going tug boats to deal with a ship in distress as the Prestige was? Will he act decisively? If we are serious about prudent management of our resources we must do that much, which is minimal in the context of the overall budget, and put in place the necessary safeguards to protect the marine environment.

The Taoiseach

Under European Union rules we are obliged to inspect 25% of boats or ships in the fleet in Irish ports. This year we recruited ten additional marine surveyors and professionals who are registered to do this work. So far, we have inspected 364 ships and boats which is well over our target. We hope to inspect 400 ships in the coming year which is well in excess of our target. We are supportive of any moves at EU level to help to improve safety at sea and standards for shipping.

Our new marine vessel, which has been adapted for towing capacity, will be with us before Christmas, according to the Minister. Our record in this area is good. With our new marine surveyors and professionals, who are registered to do this work, and with our marine vessel and its capabilities, we should be able to substantially improve our position. It is an area in which we must continue to maximise the effort and that is the intention of both the Minister and the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources.

Mr. Sargent

I wish I could believe the Taoiseach when he said trying to maximise the effort. The maritime vessel to which he refers is not designed to pull the tankers about which I am talking. I am talking about the recommendations in the Government's report, the towing vessels study, and about implementing those recommendations.

Is the Taoiseach missing the wider point in relation to the potential of the marine environment in terms of the resources of this country? For example, will he take on board the plea from the renewal energy sector for the provision of transmission lines for off-shore wind farms which have been provided to the petroleum and gas companies which are able to get lines, subsidised by the taxpayers, to various parts of the country? The wind energy sector is not able to get that type of subsidy. Will the Taoiseach redress the balance and start to look at our resources and reduce the dependence on these accident prone oil tankers by using our own resources?

An Ceann Comhairle

Your minute has concluded.

Mr. Sargent

Will the Taoiseach implement his own study and listen to those who have the interests of this country and its resources at heart?

The Taoiseach

The Deputy will appreciate I come from a party which set up the Marine Institute and has been supportive of it since day one. Over the past five and a half years this Government has provided it with the resources to do its work. I am glad of the support of Deputy Sargent and the Green Party for our ongoing commitments and our report. The Minister has informed me that the adapted new marine vessel has towing capacity.

Mr. Sargent

Not for oil tankers.

The Taoiseach

Whatever about that argument which the Deputy could take up in a parliamentary—

(Interruptions).

The Taoiseach

There is no point in the Deputy asking a question if he does not want to listen to the answer.

Mr. Gormley

On a point of order—

An Ceann Comhairle

There is no point of order on Leaders' questions. Deputy Gormley, resume your seat. Once the Chair implements the Standing Order, there is no point of order on Leaders' question time.

Mr. Gormley

Where does it say we have to listen to—

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy, I will ask you to leave the House if you persist in being disorderly. The Taoiseach to conclude his reply.

The Taoiseach

It is obvious that Deputy Gormley knows as little about this area as he does about most others. The vessel has been adapted and can hold vessels in place. As regards wind farm initiatives, as I said last week to Deputy Sargent, the Department is supportive of wind energy issues. Some understanding of infrastructural costs is required and, as the Deputy said, lines cannot be placed unless there is a subsidy. This year the Danes decreased their figures, which were the highest in Europe, because of costs. I agree with the Deputy's general view on this and I think he agrees with mine that if we are to increase our figures substantially, which we should, it should be off-shore. To do that would require a cost base and giving incentives to the private sector could help in that regard. The advantage of an interconnector, ultimately, would be that it would not only be used for its capacity in this country but also for storage, which is crucial. I support the recent report published in this area, as does the Minister, and his staff are trying to find a solution to it.