Skip to main content
Normal View

Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 4 Dec 2002

Vol. 558 No. 5

Ceisteanna – Questions. - Northern Ireland Issues.

Enda Kenny

Question:

1 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will report on recent developments in the Northern Ireland peace process; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23206/02]

Enda Kenny

Question:

2 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the recent roundtable talks hosted by the Irish and British Governments with the pro-Agreement parties; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23278/02]

Enda Kenny

Question:

3 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent contacts with the political parties in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23279/02]

Enda Kenny

Question:

4 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach when he next expects to meet with the British Prime Minister; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23280/02]

Pat Rabbitte

Question:

5 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on the outcome of the British-Irish Council summit held on 22 November 2002. [23470/02]

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

Question:

6 Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his contacts with the British Prime Minister with regard to the peace process since the opening of talks in Belfast on 21 November 2002; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23549/02]

Pat Rabbitte

Question:

7 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on the outcome of his meeting on 21 November 2002 with the US special envoy to Northern Ireland, Mr. Richard Haass. [23753/02]

Enda Kenny

Question:

8 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will report on recent developments in the Northern Ireland peace process; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24349/02]

Enda Kenny

Question:

9 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting with US special envoy to Northern Ireland, Richard Haass, on 21 November 2002; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24350/02]

Enda Kenny

Question:

10 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent contacts with the political parties in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24351/02]

Enda Kenny

Question:

11 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach when he next expects to meet with the British Prime Minister; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24352/02]

Pat Rabbitte

Question:

12 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach the progress made to date in the talks hosted by the British and Irish Governments with the political parties in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24410/02]

Pat Rabbitte

Question:

13 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach when he next plans to meet the British Prime Minister, Mr. Tony Blair; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24411/02]

Joe Higgins

Question:

14 Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent contacts with the parties in Northern Ireland. [24502/02]

Joe Higgins

Question:

15 Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach when he next expects to meet with the British Prime Minister; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24503/02]

Joe Higgins

Question:

16 Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent contacts with the US Administration. [24506/02]

Joe Higgins

Question:

17 Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent contacts with the British Prime Minister. [24507/02]

Joe Higgins

Question:

18 Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach if he will report on recent developments in the Northern Ireland peace process. [24508/02]

Joe Higgins

Question:

19 Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the matters discussed and conclusions reached at the British-Irish Council summit of 22 November 2002. [24510/02]

Joe Higgins

Question:

20 Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting with US special envoy to Northern Ireland, Mr. Richard Haass, on 21 November 2002. [24511/02]

Trevor Sargent

Question:

21 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent attendance at the British-Irish Council in Scotland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24691/02]

Trevor Sargent

Question:

22 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if he will report on recent contacts he has had with the political parties in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24692/02]

Trevor Sargent

Question:

23 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his address to the opening meeting in Dublin of the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24694/02]

Enda Kenny

Question:

24 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his attendance at the British-Irish Council meeting in New Lanark, Scotland, on 22 November 2002; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24775/02]

Enda Kenny

Question:

25 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his discussions on 22 November 2002 with the Scottish First Minister, Mr. Jack McConnell; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24776/02]

Enda Kenny

Question:

26 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent visit to Scotland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24777/02]

I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 26, inclusive, together.

The House will be aware that roundtable talks, co-chaired by the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Brian Cowen, and the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, Paul Murphy, were convened in Stormont on Thursday, 21 November. Both Governments felt it was important to get all of those who subscribed to the Agreement around the table in order to address the key issues of confidence and trust in an open, constructive and collective way. An encouraging start was made at the talks. There was complete agreement that the Good Friday Agreement remained the template for political progress. It was also agreed that we needed to fast-forward progress in all the outstanding areas.

At the round table meeting which took place on Thursday, 28 November in Belfast there were further discussions on identifying those issues which the parties believed were most important in order to restore the institutions. The agenda is the full implementation of the Agreement. Over the coming weeks, the parties and the two Governments will be having a series of meetings, in different formats, and following these meetings we will have a further round table meeting.

We need to focus on the big prize – a normal society in Northern Ireland free of all paramilitary activity with stable political institutions in which everyone has the opportunity to participate. We need to ensure that everyone has the confidence that this can be achieved and we need to create the collective will in the talks to ensure that it is achieved. While the approach to addressing the outstanding issues should be both collective and comprehensive, it need not be lengthy. I believe that it should be possible to make suf ficient progress to resolve the current difficulties and restore the Northern Ireland institutions in sufficient time for the scheduled assembly elections on 1 May 2003. That is the goal but obviously it requires a sustained effort by everybody to ensure that we bring this about.

I met Prime Minister Blair on Saturday, 30 November. We had a general stocktake of the current situation, following the recent round of meetings with the parties. We need to maintain the momentum in the process in order to ensure that we can make sufficient progress to allow for the return of devolved Government as soon as possible in the new year. The two Governments will be maintaining the closest possible contact and be continuing our joint efforts in the period ahead. I have arranged for a copy of my address to the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation to be placed in the Oireachtas Library.

The fourth summit meeting of the British-Irish Council was held in New Lanark, Scotland on Friday, 22 November. The meeting was chaired by the First Minister of Scotland, Jack McConnell. I was accompanied at the meeting by the Minister for Social and Family Affairs, Deputy Mary Coughlan, and the Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy Tom Parlon. The council noted with regret the suspension of the Northern Ireland Assembly and Executive and looked forward to the restoration of the devolved institutions in Northern Ireland as soon as possible in advance of the scheduled elections.

The main focus of the meeting was the issue of social inclusion and, in particular, financial inclusion, on which the Scottish Executive and the Welsh Assembly Government take the lead within the British-Irish Council. The council recognised that the problems of social and financial exclusion affect communities throughout all British-Irish Council administrations and the meeting highlighted the range of strategies that members are working on to combat these problems. Members reiterated their commitment to promoting social inclusion across the member administrations of the council and the council agreed a framework for taking forward work in this important area.

Following the discussion on social inclusion, the council was updated on work being undertaken in other British-Irish Council areas by relevant administrations. I met with Ambassador Haass on Thursday 21 November, when we reviewed recent developments. Ambassador Haass reiterated his commitment and the commitment of President Bush to the process. I welcome the ambassador's continuing interest and engagement with all the relevant parties.

The British Prime Minister has described his involvement in the Good Friday Agreement as the most important milestone in his political career, and I am sure we can all share that sentiment in seeking to have the Agreement implemented in full. The Taoiseach met with Prime Minister Blair in private for two hours last week. Did the Taoiseach discuss with the Prime Minister the outstanding issues that were raised by many speakers at the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation, namely demilitarisation, decommissioning and policing? Is the Taoiseach confident that these strands can be drawn together in time for the assembly to be reconstituted and the elections to be held? What does the Taoiseach think of the suggestion of the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland's suggestion that former paramilitary prisoners might be allowed to serve on local policing boards? Does the Taoiseach agree with that? Does he believe this should help Sinn Féin in particular to participate in the policing boards? Has he discussed the possible consequence of a boycott from some members of the Unionist political parties?

Following the two round table sessions which the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Cowen, co-chaired on our behalf, as well as the meeting of the British-Irish Council and the first meeting for some time of the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation, I was able last Saturday to update Prime Minister on what we had been doing. He did likewise from his perspective. I was able to give him a good flavour of what had happened and what was stated by all the party leaders. I appreciate the constructive things that were said last week at the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation.

Making progress on policing has never been more important. We need to have representation from all communities on the policing board. Participation by Sinn Féin on the policing board would be significant in marking the transition of the republican movement to peaceful and democratic means. We have stated that since Weston Park. We tried long and hard on this issue at Weston Park, particularly the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Cowen, who chaired the meetings on that occasion. He did all he could to convince everybody to join the policing board. We were successful to a certain extent and made progress but we are continuing to try to complete that job. That is what we are engaged in now.

The aim of the Irish Government is to have a policing service that is inclusive and fully representative. The coming months are absolutely vital in this respect. We hope that through the new legislation, which we welcome, and the evolution of policing in general in Northern Ireland, that the circumstances will come about that will allow Sinn Féin to take its place on the policing board and to support the Police Service of Northern Ireland.

The draft policing clauses published on 25 November are an important element in moving forward on the outstanding issues. They form a basis for discussion, following which the British Government intends to publish a draft Bill. I have no doubt that the discussions will continue over that. There are certainly still over 20, and perhaps 30, outstanding issues of all kinds that focus upon policing. Many of them are important and many of them are ones on which we can still find ways of making progress. We will endeavour to do all we can to achieve success on the policing issue because it is so important.

It will affect how we deal with the problems of interface violence. Even in the past week or two we have had a considerable amount of rioting in interface areas. One such problem the Sunday before last went on for five or six hours. It was perhaps not that serious but the fact that this is happening in November is serious as far as I am concerned. If we are ever to get to the end of all these difficulties we have to have a policing service that is representative of all communities and ensure there is trust and confidence and that the police service can do its job. We are hopefully on the way to achieving that but we are not there yet.

I wish to ask a question on a slightly different vein. The Taoiseach will understand that I have to leave shortly. The Taoiseach met with the First Minister of Scotland, Mr. McConnell, to discuss the Scottish-Irish bid for the European Championships in 2008. Did the Taoiseach inform the First Minister that the GAA will not be in a position to make a decision about the availability of Croke Park until next year? How is that problem going to be resolved if the decision is to be made in respect of the championships before then? Given that the Gaelic Athletic Association has always been an organisation that does not like to be shoved in a particular direction but likes to make its own decisions in its own way, did the Taoiseach inform the First Minister of that issue? Is he aware of the implications of it?

The position is clear, if not totally satisfactory. In fairness, it was clear when the UEFA representatives were here many months ago. The GAA has its rules and procedures and it is going to follow them. I accept that. That is its right. The current president and the incoming president have also made their positions clear in terms of their work towards a certain resolution under their rules. That is helpful. UEFA and our Scottish colleagues understand that, as do we. It would be good if it was ready, but it will not be. UEFA, the Irish representatives and the Scottish representatives dealing with this are clear about that. We have answered on this.

Deputy Kenny and other Members will appreciate that as we approach the meeting to be held on 12 December there are many issues to clarify in respect of where the grounds will be. I am confident that the Irish bid will be successful. If it is, I have no doubt that in 2008 some of the games will be played in Croke Park. I have no doubt that will be the ultimate position.

In terms of completing the written questionnaire, we cannot include Croke Park. Everyone understands the rules. Representatives of UEFA have seen all the stadiums – I have seen a good few in my day – and they believe Croke Park is the finest one they have seen on their travels.

Did the Taoiseach see the stories that appeared in a number of British newspapers at the weekend, on Saturday in particular, to the effect that the Provisional IRA is contemplating a real, total and permanent renunciation of violence and that it is likely there will be an announcement accompanied by a definite act of decommissioning? Does the Taoiseach consider those stories are accurate? Can I take it he is the source of the stories in question, that they arise from a briefing he gave to the lobby correspondents in London?

I do not know the intentions of the IRA. For devolved government to be restored, everyone knows it must be clear that the transition from violence to exclusively peaceful means is unambiguous and definite. The two Governments reiterated this in our joint statement of 14 October. I have outlined that at great length in my reply today, in reply to questions on 20 November and in several interviews since then. We need to restore confidence on all sides. We want the institutions restored as soon as possible, certainly in advance of the scheduled elections.

I talked to British journalists last week, as I normally do in such instances. I am not the only source of their information and they speculate on different issues. I said that I believed the Sinn Féin leadership is committed to the process. As always with the British senior press, I have to argue that case. I find myself in the position of arguing the credibility of the Sinn Féin leadership because in these discussions its bona fides are usually questioned. That is probably done to test where I stand as much as anything else. I stated strongly that I believe it is committed to the process of ensuring that devolved government is restored as soon as possible. I have no doubt Sinn Féin also understands that action must be taken to ensure the republican movement completes its transition to democracy. It is not an easy job to bring that about, and I understand that too. The Irish Government's position is to help Sinn Féin to do that. We have been helping it for many years.

I emphasised last week, as I always do, that the process must be brought on track to ensure the Agreement is implemented fully. I quoted to the media many examples where Mr. Adams, the president of Sinn Féin, and Mr. Martin McGuinness, chief negotiator of Sinn Féin, have spoken recently on public record of the efforts they are making to try to bring around devolved government and to restore the institutions while being highly critical of the fact that they were dissolved in the first place. I am not responsible for any further interpretations. I support the efforts of Gerry Adams and others – I think Deputy Rabbitte last week gave them credit for their con siderable effort – and we in the Irish Government, particularly the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Cowen, and I, will do all we can, as the two people directly responsible, to assist them in what is not an easy task for them.

I can appreciate that there may be a number of different considerations in the mind of the Taoiseach relating to this delicate matter. I can also appreciate that he would feel it necessary to convince British journalists of certain developments at the moment in the process. How does he react to the denial by Martin McGuinness of any validity in the matters reported? The Taoiseach said that he felt it incumbent on him to advocate the credibility of Sinn Féin's sincerity in these matters, but within hours Martin McGuinness had made a refutation. What does the Taoiseach say to that?

I did not hear what Mr. Martin McGuinness said, but I saw some quotations. I think he was responding to at least one of the headlines, which I also saw, that an IRA announcement was imminent, that the IRA was going to close its dumps, give up its arms and make some other gestures. That is sheer speculation. I do not think any of those things would be known to me or to Martin McGuinness. I would like to think that ultimately some of these things might be true, but they are mere speculation.

Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams, the president of Sinn Féin, in an address to the Presbyterian congregation the other night made it clear, as I read and interpreted it, that they are committed to working with others to try to bring an end to paramilitarism. They are on the record as saying several times that they see that also as bringing an end to the IRA, its activities, that they will work to bring a peaceful resolution to all these matters and that the Sinn Féin organisation will continue to develop and expand. That is their political agenda. I have been dealing with this process long enough to know the difficulties in trying to do all these things, to bring an end to paramilitarism. We are not only talking about the IRA, we are talking about all the parmilitaries. As we approach the end of this year, the figures show that most of the violence this year had nothing to do with the IRA; it was overwhelmingly Loyalist.

If we are to get to where we want to go – there is no dodging this – if we want to get devolved government restored and move from violence to exclusively political means, there must be an unambiguous and definitive conclusion in that regard. We must get an end to paramilitarism, paramilitary activities and all that is centred around them. That is the challenge for us. I cannot see us being able to achieve the goal facing us over the coming months if we do not secure that.

Having discussed the matter with the Prime Minister Mr. Blair last week, even if I was to agree, I do not think I would get him to agree or get the British Government to move. That is the reality. All the issues on all sides – not only the one or two I mentioned this morning – must be concluded. At my level, at the level of the Minister, Deputy Cowen, both of us working together, working with the Prime Minister, with the Secretary of State and with the help of Ambassador Haass and his colleagues, we will make every effort we can in this regard. However, we need to restore confidence and we want to see the institutions restored as soon as possible. We also want the elections to be held. I made it clear in my recent interviews that the Irish Government does not countenance any circumstances where the elections would be postponed. We can see the difficulties in that area but we do not accept or agree with them. We want the elections to be scheduled as intended. That means there are only a few months to deal with many difficult issues but it is possible to do that. It does not have to be drawn out and we are ready to play our part and to do so as quickly as possible.

I welcome the Taoiseach's stated confidence in the leadership of Sinn Féin and his acknowledgement that acts of violence in the North of Ireland are primarily the work of the loyalist paramilitaries. What is the Taoiseach's view of the proposals on policing published recently by the British Government? Does he agree that they do not meet the requirements of the Patten report? Does the Taoiseach also agree that the Patten report envisaged a much stronger role for the policing board than the role which was watered down and which gave the Chief Constable the power to refuse the board the wherewithal to properly carry out its investigative role of the police in the North of Ireland?

Is the Taoiseach aware that the proposals published last week go even further? By extension, the same restriction now applies to the police ombudsman and will undermine the ombudsman's ability to scrutinise and investigate properly the PSNI. Has the Taoiseach raised these matters with the British Prime Minister? Has he pressed, as he must do on an ongoing basis, for the full implementation of the Patten report, which everybody acknowledges was a compromise in itself? Has the Taoiseach also pressed for the immediate publication of the Stevens report, which has again been delayed? This is a critical report into collusion between British Crown forces and loyalist paramilitarism.

The Deputy asked a number of questions. With regard to the legislation, it is an important element in moving forward on the outstanding issues of policing. A number of substantive legislative amendments to the Police (Northern Ireland) Act, 2000, were agreed at Weston Park. It is the threshold from where we want to move what we have agreed on, and we want to move on it now. There are ongoing dis cussions. There has been concern about some of the issues but we agreed these at Weston Park and the Act reflects that, and we are pleased with that. Other issues are being raised before the Bill is released this month. I mentioned earlier that 20 or 30 issues have been raised.

With regard to the ombudsman, there are ongoing discussions between the ombudsman and the Secretary of State to clarify the issues. Those matters will be resolved. We have long called for the publication of the Stevens report and have been critical that it has not been published. The Minister for Foreign Affairs and his officials have raised this matter time and again and continue to do so.

Do I take it from the Taoiseach's reply that he does not share the concerns of others about the recently published legislation on policing from the British Government? It must be acknowledged that people have sincerely expressed their concern at the failure of the new legislation to meet all the requirements of the Patten report. I instanced one example. If the Taoiseach's response is as it appears, which is why I seek clarification, it would have an echo of concern beyond this Chamber. Does the Taoiseach agree that the proposed legislation does not address the requirement of meeting the compromise in the Patten report and, therefore, will not relieve the current impasse on this important issue? I seek the Taoiseach's clarification.

The Deputy should not read from my remarks that I am totally happy with the proposals and that I do not accept any of the arguments. That is not what I said. I indicated in my earlier reply to Deputy Rabbitte that there were 20 or 30 areas still outstanding where we are involved in discussions. Over the next number of weeks we will continue dealing with these outstanding issues. We hope that on examination and reflection, many of the issues of concern to the SDLP and Sinn Féin will be dealt with in the new legislation. Some others might be more suitable for resolution by non-legislative means. The Deputy will be aware that many of them are non-legislative issues and can be dealt with in that way.

Sinn Féin, the SDLP or the Irish Government will be unlikely to have all their demands fulfilled in legislation at Westminster. We will put forward our case and our submissions and we have a special input into that debate but it does not mean we always get everything we want. However, at Weston Park we achieved, from our perspective, an enormous amount of what was in the Patten report. There are areas that can still be examined. There are many sensitive issues and we know where they arise. As time goes by and when everybody is represented on the policing board, the systems and means of operating these issues will work. We have seen the success of the policing board. Regardless of what people say or do not say about the board, we must accept the great success it has had over the last 16 months. It has achieved an enormous amount.

We also hope the new legislation will be additional to other factors. One of the important other factors is the possible devolution of policing and justice. That would create the context and conditions for a move on other issues to take place. We will closely engage, as we have done since the Patten report was first produced, on this issue. It is our intention to try to come to a resolution. We will not ignore any deeply held points of view that either the SDLP or Sinn Féin has on these issues.

The Taoiseach met the US special envoy on 21 November. Did the special envoy brief the Taoiseach on the intentions of the United States towards Iraq? Did Mr. Haass give any inkling that the United States Administration would set out, calculatedly, as it has done in the last two days, to undermine the role of the United Nations inspectors in Iraq and continue to set the scene for an attack on Iraq? What discussions took place between the special envoy and the Taoiseach? Did the Taoiseach, as usual, guarantee unqualified support or did he say that the lust for oil and domination of the region among hawks in the US Administration is not a justifiable reason to launch an attack that would create tens of thousands of innocent casualties? What is the Taoiseach's assessment of the situation at present?

I did tell the special envoy, Mr. Haass, that there are a few Members of the House who are opposed to the American Administration and that even though it had followed the process we had set out, that is, the UN process, and followed it successfully over the past six months, some people are still not happy. I will try to arrange on a future visit for the Deputy to meet Mr. Haass because he is a good envoy.

Most of the meeting related to Northern Ireland but, as always, he gave me an update on key American issues. Unlike what the Deputy said, I did not accept the American position and reiterated what the Minister for Foreign Affairs said in the House, at the UN and elsewhere and has successfully followed in recent months, namely, that the UN and the policies of Kofi Annan should remain centre-stage. The envoy, Mr. Haass, and his superior, Secretary of State, Colin Powell, have listened to this position and have been helpful in regard to what the Minister, Deputy Cowen, has said on behalf of the Irish Government and what our colleagues in the European Union have said. That is clear to see in the manner in which the Security Council has been centre-stage until now. Speculating on what will happen in future is another matter and something I cannot do.

David Trimble said yesterday that the key to progress in Northern Ireland was an end to arms. Does the Taoiseach consider it important from the point of view of the renunciation of violence and the decommissioning of arms that we make it clear that it is not just David Trimble and the Unionists who want to see arms decommissioned and that there is a united voice on all sides of the Dáil that there must be an end to arms and decommissioning of all paramilitaries, especially the IRA?

Regarding the Northern Ireland Assembly elections, can we make it clear that, irrespective of the outcome of discussions, as far as we are concerned the elections must proceed next May in Northern Ireland?

On policing, whatever about points legitimately raised about the current proposals which I understand are to be debated in Westminster before the end of the month, can we make it clear that we want to see full support for the Police Service of Northern Ireland from both communities and that the message from the Dáil is that, while we appreciate the progress made by the PSNI, we want to see full support from both communities in Northern Ireland for the new police service from now on?

I agree with what Deputy O'Keeffe said. I said in my statement last week to the forum that it was not a question of one person wanting this type of programme, that we all wanted it. We have made significant progress and we can take collective credit for it. The Government has put a great deal of time, effort and commitment into it. We want to proceed in that vein and to see an end to paramilitary activity, violence and coercion and an end to issues concerning militarisation. That is a shared objective and is not just the aim of one person.

I have been in correspondence with Deputy Rabbitte and we have endeavoured to try to come to an agreement that addresses his point that the House should be able to deal collectively with these issues in a satisfactory way. We are not yet at that stage but at least we are endeavouring to get there.

I accept the last point the Deputy made regarding the Police Service of Northern Ireland. We made an enormous effort 18 months ago in Weston Park to reach a certain point and the legislation published reflects that. Other issues remain outstanding. Some argue that they should be dealt with by legislation but we believe there are also non-legislative means to deal with them. Some of the issues could be left to the policing committees to deal with because they have proved that they can make more progress. If we had tried to deal through legislation with some of the issues they have resolved over the past 16 months, we would not have been able to resolve them. The committees were able to resolve difficult issues without much fuss and to the satisfaction of all. This has been beneficial.

Rather than trying to tease out everything in legislation, we must look to the people who must live by and under the law and direct these things into the future. Some of these outstanding issues can be dealt with on a non-legislative basis. We are engaged in discussions and are prepared to fulfil our role as best we can.

In respect of the package of measures under consideration, will the Taoiseach confirm that, effectively, an amnesty will be considered for those still wanted for criminal offences so that they may return to Northern Ireland? Will he insist that the same paramilitary groups who will benefit from this lift their exclusion orders on those exiled from Northern Ireland, estimated by one human rights organisation last year to be 700?

There are two aspects to this. One is the OTRs – the "on the runs", as they are known. There are considerable legal difficulties within the British system in this regard and these have been dealt with by their Attorney General on and off for the past two years. This is an outstanding issue to which we are endeavouring to find a conclusion.

I agree with the second part of the Deputy's question. I have stated repeatedly in the House that it is consistent if one argues that people on the run should be allowed back, that those who were arbitrarily forced out of their communities, some many years ago, and who are detached from their families, representative groups of whom I have met over the years, should also benefit from any moral pressure brought to bear on the paramilitaries. There is no legal basis for their exclusion other than paramilitary threats. It has happened in both communities.

There is also the case of those people who were threatened to such an extent that they had to leave their homes because they were of a different religion or from a different community. That is an issue which must also be dealt with. There are some proposals in this regard which one of the Ministers in Northern Ireland, Mr. Brown, has brought forward which we welcome as a start in trying to deal with this issue.

Top
Share