Enda Kenny
Question:27 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach the projected cost in 2003 of the commission of inquiry into the Dublin, Monaghan and Dundalk bombings; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23281/02]
Ceisteanna – Questions. - Tribunals of Inquiry.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin
Question:28 Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin asked the Taoiseach the expected date of conclusion of the Barron inquiry; the procedure to be followed thereafter; and the projected cost in 2003 of the inquiry. [24451/02]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 27 and 28 together.
A sum of €300,000 has been provided in my Department's 2003 Estimate to cover all expenses associated with the work of the independent com mission of inquiry into the Dublin, Monaghan and Dundalk bombings.
The commission of inquiry is engaged in writing its report, which Mr. Justice Barron expects to complete early in the new year. It is envisaged that the report prepared by the judge will be submitted to the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights, as originally agreed with the Opposition parties and the group, Justice for the Forgotten. The Government envisages that the committee would consider the follow-up to the report in public session.
Most of the questions I and other Deputies have asked in recent times about the Barron inquiry have focused on the question of the co-operation the British authorities have given to Mr. Justice Barron. I wish to ask about Garda co-operation with the inquiry. I wish to focus specifically on the concern and questions which arise from the fact that so much of the material gathered by the Garda, including the forensic evidence, was handed over in the early stages to the RUC.
Can the Taoiseach advise us as to the extent of Garda co-operation? What and how much material—
I do not see how the Deputy's question arises from the two submitted to the Taoiseach. One relates to the cost of the commission and the other to the date of its conclusion and the procedure to be followed thereafter.
The Barron inquiry concluding its business is related to the extent of the co-operation it will receive from the respective authorities.
The question you are asking now does not arise out of the question you submitted.
It most certainly does.
The Chair has ruled that it does not.
The Barron inquiry has been delayed and the date of its conclusion is directly related to the degree of co-operation that Mr. Justice Barron is receiving not only from the British authorities but from the authorities here. In case my question is tripped up again, is the Taoiseach satisfied there has been full Garda co-operation with Mr. Justice Barron in relation to his inquiry? How will the cases, other than the May 1974 bombings, be dealt with by Mr. Justice Barron in the compilation and delivery of his report? Will they also go before the Dáil committee and will that committee be able to examine issues other than those brought to Mr. Justice Barron at the appropriate time?
There are three or four questions there and I will try to answer them together. Deputies will be aware that I raised the matter of the co-operation of the British authorities with Mr. Justice Barron's inquiry at my recent meeting with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. He assured me further material would be forthcoming. That material is still awaited. The Prime Minister is fully aware that we want to see the maximum co-operation from the British authorities and the matter has been raised through the British-Irish Secretariat and at the recent meeting of the British-Irish intergovernmental conference.
I have no information that there were any difficulties at any level in Garda dealings with Mr. Justice Barron or the late Mr. Justice Hamilton. I know they both dealt extensively with the Garda, but I received complaint or reports other than that full co-operation was given, so I can make no other comment on that.
On the third question raised by the Deputy, he will be aware that earlier this year, Mr. Justice Barron agreed to report on other cases, including the Dublin bombings of 1972 and 1973, the Castleblaney bombing of 1976, and the murders of John Francis Green and Bríd Carr. Mr. Justice Barron had already examined papers in these cases in the context of his examination of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings and therefore a formal extension of his terms of reference was not required. I assume these will all be in his report in the springtime. On that basis, they will all be able to go before the committee and how the committee proceeds after that will be a matter for it.
I wish to take up an issue with the Taoiseach.
I am sorry, but we are running out of time very rapidly.
I hope the report can be completed reasonably soon. Can the Taoiseach tell us about the co-operation from the UK, because that was the bugbear for such a long time? Why was there a lack of co-operation? Was it purely that there was such huge bureaucracy involved or was there a lack of will? Is the Taoiseach now satisfied that all the documentation and information sought by Mr. Justice Barron from the UK authorities has been made available? In other words has there been full discovery in the light of the fact that it will be very difficult for him to finalise his report until there has been such full discovery?
I will allow a very brief question from Deputy Ó Caoláin.
I thank you, Ceann Comhairle, for allowing me back in. As the Taoiseach has indicated he does not have the information, I ask him to inquire of Mr. Justice Barron whether he has the full co-operation of the Garda authorities and whether they have given him all the information and material including details of the forensic evidence they released from their jurisdiction in the early stages. He may be able to answer me now or later. Can the Taoiseach establish whether the Garda subsequently sought the return of that material?
As we get closer to the time of the report, I am sure I will find some of that information. I am working on the basis that there has not been a difficulty with the Garda. I do not dictate how Mr. Justice Barron does his work. If he is not getting co-operation, I get that information so that I can assist him. I have not heard of any difficulty from him or previously from the late Mr. Justice Hamilton and I know they were extensively involved. If there is anything else I will make the House aware.
In reply to Deputy O'Keeffe, I would love to be able to reply in the affirmative and say that every single thing is there. There has been some pull and chug for a long time to try to get the information. Mr. Justice Barron had a meeting at a very senior level in Northern Ireland to try to get the information. Some of the information may no longer exist and there was difficulty finding other information because of the passage of time, but that has now been found. That is very important. Other information might not have been in the NIO, but in some sectors of the security infrastructure of the time and that has been more difficult.
The difficulty has been with its system. It is very hard to track what has been in the security infrastructure, but not in the NIO or the normal establishment. People feel it is there but we cannot be sure. I cannot say it does not exist or it never existed. I have my own view about how they operate their system but that may not be a very informed view either. It is difficult to get anyone who has an informed view about some of these structures. The former Secretary of State, Dr. John Reid, put in an enormous effort to find the information that we believed was in the system and it has now been found. This was information we believed must have existed because of references that people had come across.
Is there anything missing that the Garda—
I call on the Taoiseach to conclude.
They have supplied what is known to be involved in their files. I do not believe we will get anything other than this. Although it has yet to reach us, at least it has been identified.