Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 11 Dec 2002

Vol. 559 No. 2

Leaders' Questions.

Mr. Kenny

The programme for Government includes a section dealing with commitments in respect of the Common Fisheries Policy and the proposal from the Government to ensure greater access to fishing waters, good governance and sustainable development. At the moment catching of four species of fish, monkfish, prawns, megrim and white pollock, is banned in the Irish box to Irish fishermen, on the basis of conservation of stocks. This is made a mockery of by the fact that Spanish trawlers are now entitled to fish in Irish waters because they have a greater quota. Irish fishermen must keep their boats tied up or throw the fish overboard while Spanish fishermen can sell fish caught in Irish waters to the Irish consumer.

This is not listed on the agenda for the Copenhagen meeting on Friday. I want an assurance from the Taoiseach that he will raise this with the heads of government in Copenhagen, because this is a matter not just of national pride but of the livelihoods of 25,000 families around the coast, many of whom live in areas in which no regional development of any consequence has taken place or ever will because of infrastructural deficits and so on. Will the Taoiseach assure me that he will raise the issue of reform of the CFP with heads of government on Friday so that this matter, which will not come up again for many years, can be dealt with comprehensively on behalf of Irish fishermen, who have 5% of the quota while our country has 11% of the waters?

The Taoiseach

For the past 32 years Irish fishermen have been seeking implementation of a 32-mile box around the country to restrict foreign access to this zone, on which, as Deputy Kenny says, 80% of our whitefish fleet is dependent. When Spain and Portugal joined the EC 16 years ago, Spain was given access to that zone for 93 vessels at any time from a list of 300 vessels. In 1995 a comprehensive new arrangement was worked out to facilitate full integration of Spain and Portugal into the CFP. It was agreed that this would be debated as part of CFP policy and this discussion is ongoing. I assure Deputy Kenny that the discussions of the framework for the debate on the CFP taking place next year are still going on.

Recently, however, Spain has been seeking equal access to all EU waters and is pressing hard for the removal of the western waters regime, which gave protection to our fishermen. It has support from the Legal Services Commission, which stated that the rule was to end at the end of December. This should not happen, but discussions should take place this year. The issue is a contentious one and potentially very divisive – it could lead to difficulties in our waters. We have taken it up with Commissioner Fischler. This week's meeting is about enlargement but I will certainly mention it en marge to the relevant people. We dispute the view of the legal services on this: it is seriously flawed and incomplete. A detailed contrary opinion from the office of the Attorney General has been sent to both the Presidency and the Commission. We will continue to fight this serious battle.

Mr. Kenny

Will the Taoiseach comment on the legal advice given to the Government by the Attorney General, which I understand states clearly that access to the Irish box can be restricted for Spanish trawlers? There are 25,000 fishing families around the country, including more than 5,000 in Cork, 3,200 in Kerry, almost 2,000 in Mayo and 4,300 in Donegal. The Taoiseach and the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources will need to fight this on a much tougher basis, because the issue will not be revisited for a number of years. The conservation element of the CFP is made a mockery of by the fact that Spanish fishermen with larger quotas can fish in Irish waters. That defeats the purpose of sustainable development and the conservation element of the fisheries policy.

I am glad to hear that the Taoiseach will raise this on the margins of Friday's summit. He should take a direct interest in this because regional development will never take place to a satisfactory level in these coastal communities. This has been their livelihood for generations. The Taoiseach and his Minister should fight this case much more forcefully than they have done so far.

The Taoiseach

In 1995, when the compromise agreement was worked out and we agreed to facilitate the full integration of Spain and Portugal to the Common Fisheries Policy, the arrangement covered the Irish Box and was known as the western waters regime. It was introduced in 1996 following the end of the transitional arrangements agreed under the act of accession for Spain. This was to be phased and would form part of the Common Fisheries Policy review. We could not argue with that.

The Commission legal service, however, in response to questions put by Spain, gave the surprising opinion that the western waters regime fell automatically at the end of 2002 so it would not form part of the discussions on the Common Fisheries Policy. The legal advice we have states that opinion is seriously flawed. The Attorney General's office prepared a detailed contrary opinion and we have given that to the Danish Presidency and the Commissioner.

Portugal has submitted legal opinion similar to ours. The Spanish have supported the legal service's opinion because it suits them fine. The Commission does not accept the opinion of the legal service that the regulations fall in their entirety but states that the discriminatory elements, in effect the Irish Box, cease to have legal effect, causing enormous problems for us. It has presented no legal opinion to back this up but we are demanding to see it because it runs out at the end of the year.

Mr. Rabbitte

Every week we hear explanations for the cuts in education and new punitive charges being levied by the Minister for Education and Science. We hear excuses from his PR people that they are in the interests of tackling inequity and disadvantage and addressing equality of opportunity. Is the Taoiseach aware of the scandalous situation that obtains at the newly formed National Education Welfare Board that is supposed to deal with absenteeism, not least in areas of disadvantage?

The Education Welfare Act was passed in 2000 yet not only are the new welfare officers not in place, the 40 who were in place under the 1926 Act have been idle in their offices since 2 June, when the 1926 Act expired. The budget of €13 million needed to put the service in place has been cut to €3.2 million. Almost 3,400 young people drop out of education before junior certificate and the estimated truancy level is 20% or higher in deprived areas. How can the Taoiseach justify his Minister for Education and Science prattling on about equity and equality of opportunity when kids in disadvantaged areas, for whom a school attendance service was supposed to be put in place following the 2000 Act, are still without education welfare officers and the people charged with that responsibility will now be unable to carry out their duties under the 2000 Act with the provision of a mere €3.2 million in the Estimates for next year?

The Taoiseach

I have no information that public servants are sitting in their offices doing nothing since the legislation was passed. The legislation was updated because the old legislation was not powerful enough for them to carry out their jobs in disadvantaged areas. I accept what the Deputy says, that these people are important in such areas. When the Act was passed, not only were the old staff retained, but additional staff were recruited. If Deputy Rabbitte says they are sitting in their offices I will have to investigate but the Minister for Education and Science has given priority to the legislation and has made it clear that he supports policies for areas of disadvantage and has made resources available to deal with them. I will have to see if these people are doing nothing but I doubt it. I have not heard from schools in my area that people are doing that.

We have put in place many schemes to help people from disadvantaged communities stay in education. We have extended the home-school community liaison programme, which is designed to deal with those who fall away from school. Large numbers do fall away, they do not even reach junior certificate, but the liaison programme deals with primary and post-primary schools in the designated disadvantaged areas and the scheme is working. The establishment of the National Education Welfare Board is going ahead and the stay in school initiative in primary and post-primary schools receives money from the Estimates. The only point I cannot answer is that about civil servants sitting doing nothing and I will investigate that.

Mr. Rabbitte

This is the first time this term that I have seen the Taoiseach caught out without a page from his early morning beavers.

The Taoiseach

This is the page. There is nothing in it about civil servants doing nothing.

Mr. Rabbitte

It is evident that the Taoiseach is winging it. The least important part of my question concerns the 35 welfare officers who, according to a letter I have from a solicitor working in the Children's Court in Smithfield, have been unable to do their jobs since 2 June. The most important part of it concerns the cut in the budget from €13 million to €3.2 million, preventing the establishment of a school attendance service in the parts of the Taoiseach's constituency and parts of my constituency that so badly need it, especially in mine because in County Dublin there is no school attendance service. The issue is the money needed to supply the education welfare officers to invigilate school attendance throughout the country, especially in disadvantaged areas. How can the Minister reconcile that with his supposed concern for equality? Is it not the case that if the penalty point system applied to the bogus promises of this Government, the entire Cabinet, if it chose to attend, would be off the road for longer than Dunphy?

The Taoiseach

The significant point for me was that we had changed the legislation and taken on more staff and the Deputy alleges they are doing nothing. My note tells me that the National Education Welfare Board has been established, is promoting school attendance and is involved in early school leaving initiatives. Either my note is wrong or the Deputy is wrong.

Mr. Rabbitte

The Taoiseach does not have a note.

The Taoiseach

My note states that the National Educational Welfare Board has been set up and that school attendants under the new legislation are now acting. They are working and engaged in preventing early school leaving. The stay in school initiative in post-primary schools—

Mr. Rabbitte

The board has been set up but its officers are not able to work.

The Taoiseach

—has targeted additional resources of over €50,000 per school per annum in those schools with the greatest retention difficulties. Not only is the board established and in operation, but it brought in a new stay in school initiative. The Youthreach programme has been extended, child care services have been introduced to enable parents to access adult education, the National Learning Council for Parents has been extended and there is a litany of other initiatives in the Estimates for 2003.

Mr. Rabbitte

None of which have anything to do with school attendance.

The Taoiseach

They are all concerned with helping those who drop out of school.

Mr. Rabbitte

What does the National Learning Council for Parents have to do with it?

The Taoiseach

I will have to check what the Deputy says, that this note is entirely wrong and that the people on the welfare board are sitting around doing nothing. I will check whether that is true.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

Does the Taoiseach agree that some of the most neglected people in Irish society for decades have been the mentally handicapped and intellectually disabled, and their families? I acknowledge that progress has been made in recent years but the Taoiseach will agree that much has yet to be done. How can the Government justify the budget decision to cut the allocation to health boards for the provision of services for the mentally handicapped from €38 million to €13.3 million for the coming year? Is the Taoiseach aware that the Federation of Voluntary Bodies and the National Association of Mentally Handicapped in Ireland have described this decision as absolutely disastrous? This morning NAMHI advised me that this budget will not allow it to maintain services in the coming year. Progress made in recent years will be reversed.

The essential developments necessary for the young and the ageing mentally handicapped population will not be seen. There is great concern among parents of ageing, mentally handicapped people about what will happen to their children after the parents die. It is a major problem and this decision will mean longer waiting lists for day care, respite care and long-term residential care. I appeal to the Taoiseach to reverse this cut.

The Taoiseach

I cannot talk about the figures for each health board but the overall figure with regard to intellectual disabilities has increased from €35 million a few years ago to €160 million. There have been substantial increases in recent years, brought in by the then Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Cowen. This provided an additional 1,500 day care places and 100 residential places for each year.

I admit that the figure is not as high now and organisations such as St. Michael's House and others have not been able to expand for 2002 and 2003 from what was a historic high. The organisations have made the point that they need to stay at the high figure if waiting lists are not to get longer. They were allocated an additional €5 million last year through the health boards to deal with that.

They have also made the point to me, as they have to Deputy Ó Caoláin, that this decision will not allow them to continue. However, from 2001 to 2003, over €100 million in capital revenue was provided to enhance these services and that was in addition to a very high annual budget. The base figure will remain but the additional resources for which these organisations have put forward a case will not be provided.

This is a priority within the health area. The Deputy is aware of the efforts of the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Martin, to put capital resources into a number of the mental health institutions. It is an area to which the Minister is sympathetic. The difficulty is that the high figures for 2000 and 2001 cannot be increased at the same level, although that is regrettable. Enormous resources were put in to deal with this and the Government's best efforts will go towards keeping the existing output level and, as soon as possible, returning to the very high allocations given in 2000 and 2001.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

I acknowledge that welcome progress has been made in recent years but I also stated that much had yet to be done. We are not looking at an increase here but at a devastating cut from €38 million to €13.3 million. The money going to the health boards is dealing with this issue on the ground on a regional basis.

I am speaking on this issue from a personal interest, as well as from the wider concern of those who have exactly the concerns I have for my brother who has Down's syndrome, for my mother who cares for him and for the many others deeply distressed by this decision. There are many people with mental handicaps and intellectual disability still trapped within mental institutions in this country. There are elderly parents in the same position, alone and having to look after a mentally handicapped son or daughter. They are on waiting lists for day care and respite care but the critical area is long-term residential care within the community. The Taoiseach's response does not address that concern and I appeal to him to revisit the matter.

The Taoiseach

I acknowledge the Deputy's interest and knowledge in this area, and appreciate his acknowledgement of what has happened over recent years. It is an area the Government recognises as a priority and one where, when high resources were available, it was possible to spend additional money to deal with accumulated waiting lists. It was not an area to be proud of some years ago and will not be until there are sufficient residential places.

St. Michael's House was one organisation which pointed out to me the situation in the greater Dublin and Wicklow area – it is no different in other areas – where it had greatly extended services for those with intellectual, physical and sensory disabilities. Without additional high levels of funding, waiting lists will build up again and because of the age of the parents involved, a number of people will need residential care. It is the Government's hope to maintain the high level of service and, when possible, to move additional resources into this area. That will not be possible in 2003. However, the figures built up in recent years will be maintained except for the additional resources the Government was able to commit in 2000 and 2001.