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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 29 Jan 2003

Vol. 560 No. 1

Order of Business.

The Order of Business is as follows: No. 13, motion re ministerial rota for parliamentary questions; No. 14, motion re referral to joint committee of proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of a Council directive on minimum standards for giving temporary protection in the event of a mass influx of displaced persons and on measures promoting a balance of effort between member states receiving such persons and bearing the consequences thereof; No. 15, motion re referral to joint committee of proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the State Examinations Commission (Establishment) Order 2003; and No. 21, statements on the commencement of the Dáil. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that: (1) Nos. 13, 14 and 15 shall be decided without debate; (2) the proceedings on No. 21 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 7 p.m. and the following arrangements shall apply: (i) the statements of the Government Chief Whip, the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case; (ii) the statement of each other Member called upon shall not exceed ten minutes in each case; (iii) Members may share time; and (iv) the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed ten minutes. (3) Private Members' Business which shall be No. 35 – motion re: Iraq, shall also take place tomorrow immediately after the Order of Business and shall be brought to a conclusion after 90 minutes.

Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 13, 14 and 15, without debate, agreed?

I do not wish to object to the Order of Business, but I would like confirmation from the Taoiseach that, depending on the circumstances that arise from the Iraqi situation, he will give me an assurance that the House will have a formal debate with an opportunity for questions to members of the Cabinet. I know the matter will be discussed in Private Members' time this evening but there is no opportunity for Deputies from any side of the House to ask questions. Perhaps the Taoiseach will give me that assurance. I know it is close to the line, a Cheann Comhairle, but you will not mind on this occasion.

I support that request to the Taoiseach. It is unconscionable that we have had no opportunity to discuss this issue in the House. The Taoiseach knows very well that a series of statements on Private Members' Business will not deal with the matter. The Minister for Foreign Affairs should attend the House to take questions at the end of the debate.

I agree with the matter raised by the party leaders who have just spoken. Article 28.3 of the Constitution makes it obligatory on this House to debate the Iraqi crisis.

I am sorry, Deputy, but you are out of order because your comments do not concern the issues we are debating.

I realise the issues we are debating are very important but they will pale when it comes to the devastation caused by the Iraqi crisis and Ireland's complicit involvement. I would ask the Government to give time for such a debate and not to depend on private Members' time, which is inadequate for that.

I object to the Order of Business as presented because there has been no Whips' meeting prior to the construction of the Order Paper for today's business. It is unsatisfactory for the Government merely to land an Order Paper on all parties and Members of the House without any prior consultation. I join other opposition party leaders in making a direct request to the Taoiseach to ensure that the House will be afforded the opportunity substantively to address the issue of the impending war in Iraq and his Government's role in facilitating the intent of the United States in relation to the presentation of its armed might within the area.

Are you opposing the Order of Business?

I am for the reasons I have indicated. It is imperative—

That does not arise under Nos. 13, 14 and 15. Does the Deputy oppose Nos. 13, 14 and 15 being taken without debate?

I oppose the Order of Business for reasons that I have indicated.

Right, I will put the question.

On a point of order, a number of party leaders have raised questions and maybe a reply from the Taoiseach would have an effect on their attitude to these three issues.

To reiterate what I said earlier during Leaders' Questions, if the situation comes about one way or the other – whether it is an agreed position by the Security Council, or not – then the House will have to address it with a full debate.

Question, "That Nos. 13, 14 and 15 be agreed to without debate", put and declared carried.

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 21 – Statements on the Commencement of the Dáil – agreed to?

My party will oppose this proposal. Before the Christmas recess we sought the traditional Adjournment debate for which two days have customarily been allowed. This notion of a commencement debate was presented as an innovation, yet it ends up that we are being presented with a schedule for today that provides for less than two hours, even given all the matters that have happened since the House was last in session, including major issues that have already been raised here this evening. Will the Taoiseach agree to permit this debate to continue for at least a further two hours tomorrow? We now have to start the Order of Business and there will be little more than one hour for a commencement debate. In addition, I notice that this so-called innovation, which will be sold to the media as a major breakthrough in Dáil reform, is being introduced by the Chief Whip. I have the highest regard for the Chief Whip, but I am amazed that the Taoiseach is not taking the debate himself. If the Taoiseach was serious about the issues that now confront us, he would introduce the debate. Instead of that, the ball is being passed to the Chief Whip and we will have a string of jokes at the end from the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism, which were probably written for him in the Bar Library. That is not acceptable, a Cheann Comhairle, so I am asking the Taoiseach to provide additional time tomorrow, rather than calling a vote.

In the ordinary course of events, the concept of statements at the commencement of the Dáil would be a natural formality. However, in circumstances where we are facing into an international crisis it shows that the Government is not taking the situation, or the Constitution, seriously. The Order of Business should be reviewed in light of the fact that the Government is complicit in participating in preparations for war against the terms of the Constitution. We need a debate in the House on that.

That certainly does not arise under this item and we have already discussed the matter.

It does because it is referred to in the item.

In reply to Deputy Rabbitte, this is purely an initiative to put the legislative programme for the session on the record and to outline some of the details behind that programme. The Chief Whip, on behalf of the Government, monitors the legislative programme through the various Departments and drafting agencies. It does not purport to be a major debate and I would ask the Deputy to accept that.

That puts the Chief Whip in her place, anyway.

There may be a more extensive debate on a range of matters or we could deal with them by individual debates, if the Deputy so wishes. I thought it was a good initiative to outline the legislative programme rather than just sending out a press release.

If the Taoiseach asks the Minister for Transport, Deputy Brennan, he will tell him what the intention was.

The proposed debate does not purport to deal with all the issues that have arisen in recent months. It affords the House a short period to outline the legislation as well as clarifying some of the issues that arise every day about the legislative programme.

Iraq is not mentioned.

I am bound to say that was not the understanding on this side of the House. The notion of an Adjournment debate was to review the end of the parliamentary session. The notion, as communicated to me, was that while the Government would not permit an Adjournment debate, it was bringing in this innovation to allow the House to debate national and international issues, some of which have been raised here this evening. We are now being told that this initiative is being taken rather than the customary press conference that has probably taken place outside already in order to keep the Government's 75 spin doctors busy. It has now been reduced to the status of the Chief Whip telling the House what is in the legislative schedule which we have already received in writing. That was not our intention, Sir. If the Taoiseach is not amenable to providing for that kind of debate, then we will oppose the Order of Business.

Question, "That the proposal for dealing with No. 21 – Statements on the Commencement of the Dáil – be agreed to", put and declared carried.

Is the proposal for dealing with tomorrow's Private Members' Business agreed? Agreed.

When will the veterinary medicines Bill be introduced? Will the Taoiseach allow time for a discussion on No. 48 on the Order Paper so that we can debate the important Fischler proposals which have been put into the public domain in recent weeks?

The veterinary medicines Bill will replace and update existing legislation regarding professional and related activities. The heads of the Bill have been approved. The Bill is currently being drafted and is expected in the middle of this year.

What about a time for discussing the Fischler proposals?

The Deputy can take that matter up with the Whips.

The Minister was at sea when the Taoiseach was in Lanzarote.

Deputy Timmins, please allow Deputy Gilmore to speak without interruption.

There are three Bills listed for publication in this session, by the Minister for the Environment and Local Government. I am delighted the Housing (Private Rented Sector) Bill is one of them.

Which Bill will receive the greatest priority from the Government in this session and which one will come before the House first?

The Bills in question are the Housing (Private Rented Sector) Bill; the Local Government Bill and the Protection of the Environment Bill. A great deal of effort is being put into drafting the Housing (Private Rented Sector) Bill. The Environmental Protection Agency Bill will be introduced in the Seanad next week.

Which Bill will receive priority from the Government?

They are all important. The Environmental Protection Agency Bill will be taken in the Seanad next week. The Housing (Private Rented Sector) Bill has not yet been completed. We are anxious to have that Bill enacted over the next couple of months.

When will it be published?

The Environmental Protection Agency Bill will be published tomorrow.

No, the Housing (Private Rented Sector) Bill?

It will be published as soon as it is ready.

I know that. We are obviously fairly close to that now.

In fairness to the Deputy, it will take another couple of weeks to complete. We hope to have it enacted this session.

On a point of order, what is the answer to the question? Which of the three Bills will come before the House first?

That matter has already been dealt with.

The Environmental Protection Agency Bill will be published tomorrow and introduced next week.

That Bill is being introduced in the Seanad.

The legislative programme for the spring session shows very little spring regarding Bills expected to be published during this session, specifically in the area of health and children with only one Bill highlighted there. The Health and Social Care (Professionals) Regulatory Bill is earmarked to allegedly provide for the statutory registration of health and social care professionals for the purpose of ensuring a quality service for the public. When will that Bill be presented and will it address the disgraceful situation where consultants are, in many ways, dictating the configuration of the health service and the Minister will not address them?

The Deputy must ask a question on promised legislation

Late 2003.

When will the Local Government Reform Bill be published? Can we expect legislation regarding the Commission to review constituencies? Will that be done by way of legis lation or regulation and can we expect a decision on that shortly? In other words will we see legislation on the boundaries commission?

On the Dáil boundaries?

When will we see legislation to ban the dual mandate?

That legislation will be introduced in the next couple of weeks.

What is the situation with regard to the boundary commission?

Not until the census reports are finished. I do not know when, perhaps some time in the summer.

I am sure you are aware, a Cheann Comhairle, that the Minister for Health and Children has got himself into another fine mess.

The Deputy must ask a question on promised legislation.

The question is how will he get out of it?

My question relates to legislation already passed by this House. I do not know if this has happened before. With the help of the Opposition, the Minister for Health and Children was able to put through legislation dealing with tobacco advertisements and promotions. He has now been put in the position, because he has failed to comply with an EU directive on transparency, where he has to re-introduce this legislation or part of it.

A question please or I will have to move on to Deputy Boyle.

There is no indication in the programme of legislation with which we have been presented as to when the Minister intends re-introducing this legislation which was already passed by this House. It is due to the incompetence of the Minister for Health and Children this legislation must be re-introduced.

I do not have a date for the re-introduction of that Bill. I suggest, if what the Deputy says is correct, that she table a question to the Minister for Health and Children in that regard.

Will any sense of urgency be attached to the water services Bill in light of the continuing failure of group water and sewerage schemes to fulfil European Union directives?

The Heads of the Bill, which is to consolidate and update water services legis lation, have been approved and will be introduced mid-year.

Will the Taoiseach clarify if, under Legislation Promised and Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the only Bill which will come before us, apart from the language equality Bill, is the Charities Bill whose publication is not expected until 2005? Does that mean the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, Deputy Ó Cuív will not introduce legislation until that time?

Public consultation is envisaged prior to the preparation of the draft heads for the Charities Bill. A target date for drafting of that legislation will not be set until the consultation process has been completed, which will take about two years.

Will no other legislation be introduced by that Minister?

The Official Language Equality Bill is the only other one listed as of now.

Will the Taoiseach require that a copy of the agreement between the Conference of Religious in Ireland and the State in respect of abuse in residential institutions be placed in the Oireachtas Library? Pat Kenny has a copy of it but, as Members of this House, we do not.

I am not sure if the agreement is in the public domain

It is on the airwaves.

I am informed that it is in the public domain and I will ensure it is placed in the Dáil Library.

It is a statutory instrument and should, therefore, be in the Dáil Library.

In the light of the difficulties being experienced by the disabilities sector due to their being ignored in the budget, will the Taoiseach advise the House when it is proposed to approve the heads of the disability Bill? Will he also advise the House if this Government is serious about disability issues?

The Disability Bill which provides measures for the equal participation of people with disabilities lapsed on the dissolution of the previous Government. The Department is involved in a consultation process. As soon as that is completed the Bill will be brought forward. It is intended to enact such a Bill this year.

The Local Government Bill will provide for the ending of the dual mandate. Will the Taoiseach voluntarily encourage his party members to end it as members of the Green party have done?

That matter does not arise now.

Will the Taoiseach follow our lead whereby all Teachta Dála have to—

(Interruptions).

Second, in regard to this legislation will the Taoiseach clarify—

I have called Deputy Bruton, I will call Deputy Cuffe again on the second issue.

Promises regarding the introduction of the industrial relations Bill have been made outside the House. That raises a wider issue regarding the negotiation of the social partnership where important decisions about priorities are being made. We have been notified, for instance, that Dublin Simon is not being—

The Deputy cannot make a statement on the legislation.

Important conflicts between competing interests are being resolved without referral to this House, including legislative provisions and so on. The Taoiseach has an obligation to this House—

There is no legislation promised. The Deputy must find another way of raising the issue. I call Deputy Stagg.

(Interruptions).

The Deputy knows how to raise the matter. I call Deputy Stagg.

The Taoiseach accused me before Christmas of taking credit for the schools programme in north Kildare. Arising from the published statement by the Minister for Education and Science that none of the 12 school programmes in north Kildare will be moved forward in 2003, is there a legislative proposal in the list published to reverse the situation in north Kildare so that I might be able to take some credit for getting it reversed if not brought forward?

A health complaints Bill is included in the programme for the coming session, which I welcome. It will provide a framework for complaints within the health service. In view of the contents of the disturbing report on St. Mary's in Drumcar, will the Taoiseach assure me that the legislation will be expedited and that it will include a mechanism to provide protection for those who cannot make complaints them selves? Will he consider including in the Bill the urgently needed independent—

Does that arise in the Health Complaints Bill.

The Health Complaints Bill will provide a statutory framework for the handling of complaints within the health service. The heads of the Bill are expected towards the summer but it is unlikely the legislation will be passed until next year.

Last summer my colleague, Deputy Shortall, tried to have the Residential Institutions Redress Act amended and warned there would be a serious imbalance between the obligations of the State and the obligations of the religious institutions. Obviously this will now come to pass and my party leader raised the agreement. Will the Government revisit that legislation in view of the imbalance, particularly in view of the fact that cases that go to court will now be under the jurisdiction of the State?

There is no legislation promised. I call Deputy Crawford.

Will the Taoiseach give us an idea when the Land Bill will come before the House to allow us to discuss the serious situation in agriculture. When will the Minister of State, Deputy Parlon's, promise in regard to the roll-over and disease levies—

The question is in order as to when the Land Bill will be introduced.

This is a major issue.

I call Deputy Broughan.

I would like to ask the Taoiseach about the timing of the criminal justice Garda powers Bill. Every time we return to this House during his administration, there seems to be another fatality or episode, car theft or joyriding, this time in the Taoiseach's constituency. When will the Taoiseach take seriously the problem of law and order?

He is examining the legislation.

The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform is not even here to respond on the first day.

The Deputy must allow the Taoiseach to answer the question.

The Criminal Justice Public Order Bill is before the House. This deals with most of the issues raised by the Deputy.

When is it anticipated the Abbotstown Sports Centre Authority Bill and the proceeds of corruption Bill will come before the House? I did not deliberately link the two Bills together. I just want an update on them.

The Abbotstown Sports Centre Authority Bill will be taken this session and the other Bill will also be taken in this session.

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