Joe Sherlock
Question:97 Mr. Sherlock asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the progress made to date with regard to the publication of the charities Bill; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [8330/03]
Other Questions. - Charities Legislation.
Willie Penrose
Question:121 Mr. Penrose asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if his Department has completed its consideration of the consultants' examination of aspects of the charities legislation; his proposals for the promised public consultation process; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [8326/03]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 97 and 121 together.
Conscious of the concerns expressed in this House and elsewhere that the legislation be brought forward as soon as possible, I have instructed my Department to prioritise preparation of the draft Bill, with a view to publication during 2004. Under the revised target for the next two years, I hope to proceed as follows. As my Department has concluded its consideration of the consultants' charity law review, the next step will be to identify the key issues in relation to an appropriate regulatory framework. This is consistent with the commitment in An Agreed Programme for Government to enact a reform of the law which would ensure accountability and protect against abuse of charitable status and fraud.
The intention is then to include the key issues in a reader friendly consultation paper. As the reference document for the public consultation process, it will be publicly available and will also be posted on my Department's website. Our aim is to have the consultation paper ready by the summer and the consultation process concluded by late autumn. Preparation of the general scheme of the Bill would follow with a view to its submission to Government for legislative drafting by early 2004 and publication of the Bill later in the year. The timescale is an ambitious one, all the more so since the legislation will be of considerable complexity.
The Minister's reply is more or less the same as the one we considered earlier. I previously raised with the Minister the fact that the Commissioners of Charitable Donations and Bequests do not have a list of charitable organisations. The only such list available is the list of organisations which have successfully applied to the Revenue Commissioners to be considered for tax relief. Would it not be prudent for the Department to begin drawing up an informal register of the various charities prior to publication and enactment of the legislation? I have no idea of the true figure for the number of charities operating here – I have heard estimates of as many as 20,000.
For many years, a problem has been that no single Department has overall responsibility for charities. A number of Departments and agencies have partial responsibility for various aspects of supervision, for example, in terms of accounting standards. These include the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, the Revenue Commissioners, the Commissioners of Charitable Donations and Bequests, the Attorney General and the Garda Síochána. The problem the legislation will set out to address is how to draw these various bodies together under one umbrella. Considerable work is ongoing in the Department, initially focused on the consultation document and later on the drafting of the Bill. Gathering the information to which the Deputy refers will be one part of this process.
In light of the ongoing war in Iraq, the issue of charity has become very important. Charitable organisations will try to raise as much funding as possible and I hope the Irish people, as well as the Government, will support their efforts. People involved in the charitable sector have told me they can do things here that cannot be done anywhere else and that there are opportunities to exploit the system. It is important, therefore, that the relevant legislation is introduced as soon as possible.
In Northern Ireland subscribing members of the Presbyterian Church, to which I belong, can receive tax breaks as churches there have charitable status. This does not appear to be the case here. Given the ongoing difficulties facing the churches, such benefits are important and should be considered when the legislation is being drafted.
The legislation on charities currently in place is decades old and various attempts have been made to address this area over the years. For example, the Costello report was published about 12 years ago and Deputy Burton, when she was Minister of State, commissioned a report six or seven years ago. Neither of the reports resulted in legislation.
The whole approach to charity and fundraising has changed significantly in recent decades. Although some groups continue to raise funds using collection buckets, frequently this is no longer the case and large corporate events have become widespread. For this reason, the law needs to be modernised.
Various agencies, including the Revenue Commissioners and the Commissioners of Charitable Donations and Bequests, have responsibility for aspects of the charity sector. The reason we are discussing this issue and the Government committed itself to introduce new legislation on it in the programme for Government is that it is needed. This has been recognised for many years.
As some of the other points Deputy O'Shea made may well be covered in the consultants report, we will provide him with a copy to assist him in his work in preparing for developments later in the year.
The Costello report was published 25 years ago. This shows the sense of urgency with regard to the need to address our failure to introduce legislation in this area. I understand four or five Departments have been given responsibility for producing a charities Bill. Like most Members of the House, I am anxious that the process be speeded up.
Will the Minister of State consider other avenues for expediting legislation to address the ongoing concern about the lack of charities legislation on the Statute Book? I have two suggestions. The comprehensive report carried out on this issue by the Law Society, which I have raised in the House on other occasions, could form the basis of a Bill. Alternatively, the Government or a Department could request the Law Reform Commission to produce a report that would form the basis of a Bill to be presented to the House in the short-term.
I agree with the Deputy that responsibility for the legislation has been transferred from one area to another – in the past two years it has been transferred between three Departments. The White Paper on supporting voluntary activity suggested that responsibility be transferred from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform to the then Department of Social Welfare. The recent reorganisation of Departments has resulted in responsibility being transferred from the Department of Social and Family Affairs to the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs. I am not sure of where responsibility for this issue lay previously.
The Law Society produced a highly interesting report which influenced thinking in the Department on the issue and the Law Reform Commission will also consider the matter. However, I am not sure when we will receive its report. As well as receiving the Law Society report, the Department commissioned consultants to produce a report. Together with the Costello and Burton reports, these reports are influencing our thinking on the consultation document. We need to press ahead and ascertain the views of the pub lic later in the year, after which we will try to produce legislation.
I acknowledge the constructive attitude displayed in the Minister of State's comments. Does the Department have access to the list of charitable organisations held by the Revenue Commissioners? My basic question is whether there are obstacles to obtaining this information in terms of revenue or data protection legislation. Part of the consultation process will be with the community and voluntary sector and implementation will be through the implementation and advisory group. When the Department is dealing with the community and voluntary sector a great deal of information will come in then but it would be a worthwhile exercise if the Minister placed advertisements in the papers and asked groups which consider themselves to be charities to make themselves known to the Department. That could have a useful input into the consultation process also.
That is one of the issues the community and voluntary advisory group is discussing at its own level. I cannot answer the Deputy on the Revenue list. I will find out whether there is any difficulty in that regard. I will come back to the Deputy directly on that matter.